FB: Empire 8

[middlerelief]

Well I don't think there is any doubt that Fisher has faced tougher opponents in the first two rounds.  Unfortunately I don't think that will count for much come Saterday. 

I like middlerelief's enthusiasm.  I don't agree with his rankings of programs and it is a slight to MHB (and Linfield), but you can't hate on a guy for believing in his team.  It's like I referenced on the ASC board, the alternative of having a completely defeatist attitude is lame.

Thanks.

It is not intended or I'm not sure any of the programs mentioned above would take it is a slight to say they are widely viewed and accepted as a top 5 elite program in the country for D3 - I was/am serious in that, I think both MHB and Linfield are top programs.  I went back and looked and here's where MHB's seasons have come to end: '12 MUC (semi), '11 Wesley (Qtr), '10 Wesley (Qtr), '09 Linfield  (2nd round), '08 UWW (Semi), '07 UWW (Semi), '06 Wesly (Qtr)

What makes them a top program in my view is that they've been there every year.  What doesn't make it a foregone conclusion in my mind is A) it never is for the team I root for, B) that those playoff results as in where they have ended are not as different as most other programs (STU, Bethel, SJF for example), and C) stronger competition according to SOS YTD.

What does give me pause, is the heavy emphasis on running by MHB,  as it gives me a flash back to how SJF has played Salisbury the how ever many teams we've Salisbury.

[Kelly Boggs]

Great analysis, Toby.

The game is played on the field and anything can happen on Saturday. However, as a die-hard CRU fan, I will be driving 5 1/2 hours one way in anticipation of UMHB taking care of business.

When I can not attend games in person, I like to listen to the opponents's radio broadcast. I find it interesting and insightful to hear the opposition's take on The CRU. I have stopped counting how many broadcast teams have said some variation of the following: "UMHB's team speed on defense is hard to describe. It's like they have 14 or 15 guys flying all over the field."

The chances for rain have been reduced to 20%. Let's hope it continues to decline. Cold is tolerable for many fans, cold and wet is miserable. 

[Knightstalker]

As for the weather, if we Texans had standard issue thermal ("proven to  minus 40 degree windchill sit on your rear end in a frozen deer blind") underwear, then we might not consider 35 degrees above too cold.

You don't mix hunting gear with football gear Ralph. 

Aren't they the same?  Lined Camo overalls and jacket are good for a friday night game at the old HS and for Early Saturday morning in the woods.

[D3MAFAN]

fisher guys, good luck this weekend.  as far as the speed that you will see goes, I believe that fastest/quickest team you saw this year was likely salisbury, they are not close to UMHB.  the worry that i would have is the number of points fisher gave up to salisbury.  if that happens saturday fisher is in for a long day.  if the offense can control the ball and slow the game down fisher has a chance, a slim one, but a chance.  congrats on making the final 8, another good showing by a good program.  both our squads are up against it this weekend, double upset would be great.

I would agree that UMHB is way faster than Salisbury, I don't think Salisbury had the talent they had in 2011 this past year when SJF played them, however I think SJF was the better overall team with the better chance of competing against the top dogs, due their balance attack. Even though IMHO I thought Salisbury was the better team (that day) when the played Wesley, I think when UMHB played Wesley, it really showed the difference in talent (overall) that UMHB has on any team from the East Region. Nevertheless, the most talented teams doesn't always wins, but talented teams with good to great coaching, i.e Mount Union and UW-Whitewater always finds itself winning.

Over the last 5 years, I have seen UMHB envolve to become a more dynamic team, from simply trying to run the ball down its opponent throat, to opening the offense up to work towards more balance, which is one of the biggest difference between that of UMHB and Salisbury and Wesley. I think SJF is a program that makes the necessary adjustments to compete at the highest level, which is why on Saterday, this SJF team against all odds has found its way back to the 'Elite 8' and has a chance to do something special.

[Bombers798891]

There are a lot of similarities to me between this year and 2011.  A two loss Fisher team getting in the playoffs by the hair on their chin, advancing to the 3rd round, and meeting up with a formidable opponent.  But there are also key differences to consider:

1.  A quarterback who can make the necessary throws

3.  A quarterback who can make the necessary throws

5.  A quarterback who can make the necessary throws

This is kind of funny to me because less than a month ago, after the Buff State win, a Fisher poster asked if the team should just start Naton the rest of the year. Dodged a bullet there, huh fellas? 

[boobyhasgameyo]

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Naton performed admirably in Fenti's absence.  I'm not saying Fenti is amazing, he does make some questionable throws that a better team will make us pay for.  Could be your classic Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady situation (because Fisher's got it like 'dat)...What I will ultimately maintain is that either of them are more capable quarterbacks in comparison to the level that Kramer was able to achieve at the position. 

[Bombers798891]

E-8 all conference announced and I missed it?

Congrats to all players listed, especially Bomber linebacker Will Carter, who dealt with constant injuries but came back for a 5th year and was stellar, earning first-team honors.

I will say this though, and please don't think me arrogant: By not recognizing Josh Oliver, the E8 has basically said they don't care about the return position and are just throwing names at a wall, essentially honoring the best return guy on every team. These stats are going to be slightly off from what the E8 probably used to make the decisions, what with IC and Fisher in the playoffs, especially considering Oliver had a long return against Wesley, but I still think the overall point holds

Oliver: 16 KR, 23.2 avg, 9 PR, 18.0 avg
Bain: 24 KR, 21.1 avg, 1 PR, 5 yards
Francis: 13 KR, 19.5 avg, 8 PR, 9.5 avg
Beniquez: 31 KR, 19.8 avg, 15 PR, 6.7 avg
Taylor: ZERO kick returns, 22 PR, 12.5 avg

Maybe you could argue Beniquez, based on volume alone. But the other three make no sense. Oliver returned more kicks and more punts for a better average than Francis (If you're going to pick a Fisher guy, Kramer was better). Overall, Oliver returned the same number of kicks as Bain, and more than Taylor, again for a higher average.

I hate it when all-conference selections at certain positions turn into an "everyone is honored" sort of thing. But especially at the return position, where good players are constantly overlooked anyway.

Oh well. Guess I'm just bored on a Tuesday.

[dlippiel]

I like that discussion. I am glad the SJF is coming to UMHB.  It is good to have this inter-region games appearing in the Round of 8.

SJF is the best team for UMHB in the Quarterfinals.  They were clearly stronger than Hobart and now I think that Hobart got a considerable bit of love in the Top 25 by just "floating" at 6th and 7th in the Polls (with no more that 473 points which is almost a perfect "7th").

SJF has been in the playoffs for the last 4 seasons.  They are a quality program (AKA "usual suspect" as mentioned in the blog.)

As for the weather, if we Texans had standard issue thermal ("proven to  minus 40 degree windchill sit on your rear end in a frozen deer blind") underwear, then we might not consider 35 degrees above too cold.

Don't quote me but I think it was Pat, or someone else in the D3football.com world, that basically alluded to Hobart being ranked so high was due to their Wittenburg win in the playoffs last year...

Is that accurate and if so does that sort of call into question their ranking throughout the year???

Thanks Upstate.

That is a problem. I have participated in Mr Ypsi's Fan Hoops top 25 and run the South Region Fan Poll. You kinda have to give the team the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

Yeah just for clarification to the LL folk...

That was not a veiled shot at Bart or the LL...

Hobart is a damn good team...

They deserved to be ranked to start the season...

They likely would have made it into the top 10 with the way they ran through the LL with their undefeated record...

IDHO Hobart was ranked too high all season. dlip felt this way especially after seeing them play in person. Not trying to hate on the Statesmen, dlip is very proud of how that school has represented the LL...it's just his opinion.

[Ralph Turner]

As for the weather, if we Texans had standard issue thermal ("proven to  minus 40 degree windchill sit on your rear end in a frozen deer blind") underwear, then we might not consider 35 degrees above too cold.

You don't mix hunting gear with football gear Ralph. 

Yeah, you sit all toasty in your deer blind in the Hill Country in 35 degree weather with rain and wind, and complain about how cold you are sitting in the stands sans hunting gear in the same weather, freezing your toosh!  LOL!

[dlippiel]

...... and should be a great measuring stick for where SJF stands.

Coach always has good comments and agree that anytime your program is playing any of the... I'll say top 5 recognized "elite" programs it is a good measuring stick for the season, and a measuring stick for the program in how consistent is your team in position annually to be playing deep in the playoffs.  --  The top 5 recognized programs in my opinion would be: MUC, UWW, Wesley, MHB, and Linfield - in that order. After that, there's a wide open debate, but think that Bethel and SJF are programs that represent well in that space are can be apart of that conversation.   

I am not taking away from the impressive overall win loss record of MHB. But like most of the country, they haven't been able to get by the usual suspects in MUC, UWW, Wesley and Linfield.   

SJF has had much stronger competition thus far in the season, and arguably tougher competition 2 rounds into the post season than MHB.  It isn't going to be the steam roll and fore gone conclusion that some in other sections of the boards are expecting.  I like SJF's chances in this game.

+k mr! Love the outlook and hopefully it comes to fruition. However with that said dlip thinks it may get a bit ugly for the Cardinals. IDHO even if the Cardinals get hammered it does not mean in any way they are not an excellent D3 football program. It just will show us what we see year in and year out how the top 3-4 teams every year are ****ing amazing and play at such a high level. To dlip, the Cru is clearly one of those teams and this year, may make the jump into the top 2. Either way dlip is extremely proud of SJF and loves to root for them come playoff time (unless they are playing an LL team).

[Ralph Turner]

Hey SJF, we are excited to have a different opponent in the third round from the usual suspects (e.g., Wesley). I like how the brackets have thrown some out-of-region games early for us to enjoy!

[SJFF82]

I like that discussion. I am glad the SJF is coming to UMHB.  It is good to have this inter-region games appearing in the Round of 8.

SJF is the best team for UMHB in the Quarterfinals.  They were clearly stronger than Hobart and now I think that Hobart got a considerable bit of love in the Top 25 by just "floating" at 6th and 7th in the Polls (with no more that 473 points which is almost a perfect "7th").

SJF has been in the playoffs for the last 4 seasons.  They are a quality program (AKA "usual suspect" as mentioned in the blog.)

As for the weather, if we Texans had standard issue thermal ("proven to  minus 40 degree windchill sit on your rear end in a frozen deer blind") underwear, then we might not consider 35 degrees above too cold.

SJF has not been in NCAA past 4 years. They have made it in 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011 and this year

They have played a post season game in 11 straight years I believe as here in the East we have ECAC Bowl games

[SJFF82]

In my biased opinion SJFF falls somewhere between 6-9 as a program in past 10 seasons.  Avg of 9 wins a season.  5 NCAA appearances. 3 quarterfinal appearances. 1 semifinal appearance  several road wins against Top 15 teams.  All played in one of toughest conferences in Country

Carry on...

[AUPepBand]

I like that discussion. I am glad the SJF is coming to UMHB.  It is good to have this inter-region games appearing in the Round of 8.

SJF is the best team for UMHB in the Quarterfinals.  They were clearly stronger than Hobart and now I think that Hobart got a considerable bit of love in the Top 25 by just "floating" at 6th and 7th in the Polls (with no more that 473 points which is almost a perfect "7th").

SJF has been in the playoffs for the last 4 seasons.  They are a quality program (AKA "usual suspect" as mentioned in the blog.)

As for the weather, if we Texans had standard issue thermal ("proven to  minus 40 degree windchill sit on your rear end in a frozen deer blind") underwear, then we might not consider 35 degrees above too cold.

This may come across a bit picky to some, but as a lifetime fan of the Alfred Saxons, Pep is cognizant of Fisher's playoff experience as a few of their potential appearances were nixed by none other than the Saxons. To set the record straight, this year is the fifth overall NCAA Tournament appearance for the Cardinals, who previously went to the dance in 2004 (E8 champs advanced one round), 2006 (E8 co-champs but earned Pool C bid, advancing to Final Four), 2007 (E8 co-champs but earned Pool C bid, advancing to Elite 8), 2011 (E8 2nd place, received Pool C bid, advancing to Elite 8) and this year (advanced to Elite 8 as E8 runner-up with at-large bid with 8-2 record).

Over the past decade, same as Pep's Saxons, when the Cardinals didn't go to the dance, they played in an ECAC bowl game.

In 2005, the Saxons (7-2) defeated once-beaten SJFC 13-7 at Growney Stadium the day before the NCAA Selection Committee overlooked both Fisher (8-2) and Alfred (8-2). A win that day would have guaranteed the Cardinals (9-1) a berth in the playoffs. AU's win should have earned them a ticket to the dance, IMHO.

In 2008, the Cardinals came a PAT away from earning the Empire 8 AQ but it was blocked by the Saxons, resulting in a 30-30 tie at the end of regulation. The Saxons went on to win, 36-33 in overtime, and both teams ended up in an ECAC bowl game.

In 2009, a 31-28 loss to Alfred at Growney Stadium kept the Cardinals at home for another ECAC bowl game as the Saxons and Cardinals were E8 co-champs but AU earned the AQ based on that result. AU dropped a 35-25 game to a hot Albright team in the first round after losing its two-way All-Conference WR/DB to injury in the first quarter.

In 2010, the 5-1 Saxons outgunned the 7-0 Cardinals, 42-31, at Merrill Field. AU finished unbeaten in E8 play, despite awkward losses to LL foes RPI and Rochester. With the AQ, the Saxons advanced to the Elite 8, dropping a 37-7 game at UMU. The Cardinals won another ECAC bowl game.

In 2012,Alfred defeated the Cardinals on Merrill Field, 26-13, and finished ahead of SJFC in the E8 standings. Both played in ECAC bowl games.

Pep surmises that NCAA playoff success by E8 teams in general, and the Cardinals, in particular, are a result of the steady season of competitive games. It really is a competitive Empire 8 Conference from top to bottom. Once conference play begins, most anything can happen. There really are no automatic "W"s that one can circle on the schedule. Performing in highly contested games week after week results in a team maturing and getting stronger. The Cardinals are peaking right now. There was some mid-season drama. It took a game to regroup but, seeing the results, Pep believes the Cardinals are a much stronger team today. Are they strong enough to beat an outstanding team in the land of Friday Night Lights with a RB as good as Tim Riggins? We will know more by 4 p.m. Saturday.

On Saxon Warriors!


P.S. As Pep posts this, he sees that 82 has beaten him to the board. +K 82

[Ralph Turner]

I like that discussion. I am glad the SJF is coming to UMHB.  It is good to have this inter-region games appearing in the Round of 8.

SJF is the best team for UMHB in the Quarterfinals.  They were clearly stronger than Hobart and now I think that Hobart got a considerable bit of love in the Top 25 by just "floating" at 6th and 7th in the Polls (with no more that 473 points which is almost a perfect "7th").

SJF has been in the playoffs for the last 4 seasons.  They are a quality program (AKA "usual suspect" as mentioned in the blog.)

As for the weather, if we Texans had standard issue thermal ("proven to  minus 40 degree windchill sit on your rear end in a frozen deer blind") underwear, then we might not consider 35 degrees above too cold.

SJF has not been in NCAA past 4 years. They have made it in 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011 and this year

They have played a post season game in 11 straight years I believe as here in the East we have ECAC Bowl games

My bad!  Thanks for the corrections on the ECAC games. Nevertheless, the post-season experience is more practice, another game, big-game experience, etc.