FB: Empire 8

[jknezek]

Yes, it was Isaac Collins of Geneva, NY (Hobart's backyard)

I guess shame on all the upstate teams for not getting this kid. 

A quick search shows that Alliance is 5 hours from Geneva, so maybe Upstate NY is still fair game for Mt. Union recruiting.

This may be just personal preference, but I think going to college outside your own backyard is very attractive from a teenager's perspective.  That can range from going a few hours away to traveling across the country; I am from the Philadelphia area and went to college in Pittsburgh, about 4 hours' driving time from my house to CMU, and thought it was perfect.  I was (and still am) close enough to get home with a day's notice and an afternoon drive, but far enough away that I had to grow up, learn a new city and region, and forge some of my own identity.

Different strokes for different folks/kids, but I understand why not everyone goes to college in their own backyard, and think 200-300 miles' distance from home is just about the perfect amount of "space" for a kid to grow up while also being within arm's reach (and driving distance for games - my parents made it to 21 of the 23 games during my junior & senior year without it seeming an unreasonable burden).  So I think the OAC schools reaching into NY for recruiting makes perfect sense; at CMU we also had a fair representation of New Yorkers.

Yes but this is where it gets interesting.  Hobart is a nationally ranked Liberal Arts schools with (lets estimate here), 90% of its student body from within a 5 hour drive.  Kids go to Hobart for all sorts of reasons.  Will Mt. Union show the same statistics?  What do the FA packages show?

You are also assuming the kid could have gotten into Hobart. I have no idea about that kid, but is that a good assumption to make in general? Hobart is a different school than Mt U, and that isn't in any way besmirching Mt U.

My parents drew a 6 hour circle around our house and said pick a school in this area. W&L was 6hrs and 30 minutes and my parents bent the rule simply because it was such a good school. I applied and got in to College of NJ, Rutgers, and a bunch of closer schools, but I didn't want to stay that close to home.

[jknezek]

At the risk of sounding 'bad' (like that has ever stopped me), why would a D3 football player to be, leave his 'backyard' (suburban Roch, NY) for Alliance OH?  In DI, you are recruiting with money/scholarships, plus the allure of big time college campus and football atmosphere....you are happy to leave your home for Happy Valley, Columbus, South Bend, etc...


Presumably, at this level though, a kid just wants to continue playing football and go to college.  If that is the case, why do you decide that the place to go grow up and 'get away from your parents' is Alliance OH when Cortland, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Hobart and Alfred are all tradition rich (football, academics, facilities et al) possibilities that also offer the ability for a kid to get a little distance from home.

I certainly get that a Webster kid shuns Fisher because it is literally his back yard...but why not IC?  That is a couple hours away....and its Ithaca.  I mean I know Ithaca sucks, but it is Ithaca...

It has to be the Garcon/Shorts/NFL factor at this point...assuming this kid from Webster (Colicchio WR) has those aspirations perhaps?

Umm... or the chance to win multiple national championships? Mt Union has a pull all its own based on success. While some of those schools you mention had success in the past, or look poised to be competitive, none of them can say "we haven't had a senior class go without a national championship since 1991" or whenever it was....

[SJFF82]

Yes, it was Isaac Collins of Geneva, NY (Hobart's backyard)

I guess shame on all the upstate teams for not getting this kid. 

A quick search shows that Alliance is 5 hours from Geneva, so maybe Upstate NY is still fair game for Mt. Union recruiting.

This may be just personal preference, but I think going to college outside your own backyard is very attractive from a teenager's perspective.  That can range from going a few hours away to traveling across the country; I am from the Philadelphia area and went to college in Pittsburgh, about 4 hours' driving time from my house to CMU, and thought it was perfect.  I was (and still am) close enough to get home with a day's notice and an afternoon drive, but far enough away that I had to grow up, learn a new city and region, and forge some of my own identity.

Different strokes for different folks/kids, but I understand why not everyone goes to college in their own backyard, and think 200-300 miles' distance from home is just about the perfect amount of "space" for a kid to grow up while also being within arm's reach (and driving distance for games - my parents made it to 21 of the 23 games during my junior & senior year without it seeming an unreasonable burden).  So I think the OAC schools reaching into NY for recruiting makes perfect sense; at CMU we also had a fair representation of New Yorkers.

Yes but this is where it gets interesting.  Hobart is a nationally ranked Liberal Arts schools with (lets estimate here), 90% of its student body from within a 5 hour drive.  Kids go to Hobart for all sorts of reasons.  Will Mt. Union show the same statistics?  What do the FA packages show?

You are also assuming the kid could have gotten into Hobart. I have no idea about that kid, but is that a good assumption to make in general? Hobart is a different school than Mt U, and that isn't in any way besmirching Mt U.

My parents drew a 6 hour circle around our house and said pick a school in this area. W&L was 6hrs and 30 minutes and my parents bent the rule simply because it was such a good school. I applied and got in to College of NJ, Rutgers, and a bunch of closer schools, but I didn't want to stay that close to home.

Ok so this hypothetical recruit who cant get into Hobart or IC, but loves football, is talented, but not D1 talent....How bout Cortland?  He must be looking at Cortland and MT. Union? 

[SJFF82]

Yeah, I certainly get the Nat'l Championship 'thing', but why do 99% (I  made this stat up...) of the rest of the NY recruits stay 'home'?

So this 1 kid decided Alliance was where it is at?  Ok...that could simply be the case.

[jknezek]

Ok so this hypothetical recruit who cant get into Hobart or IC, but loves football, is talented, but not D1 talent....How bout Cortland?  He must be looking at Cortland and MT. Union?

I have no idea. Kids choose colleges for all kinds of reasons. Maybe he had friends at Mt Union. Maybe he had a cousin that went there. Maybe he just liked Coach Kehres more than anyone else. Maybe he wanted to win championships. Maybe he spent his formative years in Ohio and only went to h.s. in NY. Maybe UMU gave him good financial aid. Maybe he loved the campus, or the facilities, or he went for a visit and really liked a class he sat in on.

There could be dozens of reasons a kid chose UMU over somewhere closer to home. And, horror of horrors, not all of them may be football related. What's the big deal? In recruiting you win some and you lose some, and not all of it has to do with logical reasons.

[Jonny Utah]

Ok so this hypothetical recruit who cant get into Hobart or IC, but loves football, is talented, but not D1 talent....How bout Cortland?  He must be looking at Cortland and MT. Union?

I have no idea. Kids choose colleges for all kinds of reasons. Maybe he had friends at Mt Union. Maybe he had a cousin that went there. Maybe he just liked Coach Kehres more than anyone else. Maybe he wanted to win championships. Maybe he spent his formative years in Ohio and only went to h.s. in NY. Maybe UMU gave him good financial aid. Maybe he loved the campus, or the facilities, or he went for a visit and really liked a class he sat in on.

There could be dozens of reasons a kid chose UMU over somewhere closer to home. And, horror of horrors, not all of them may be football related. What's the big deal? In recruiting you win some and you lose some, and not all of it has to do with logical reasons.

Yea, I think Mt. Union can say the following to Upstate kids:

-It is only a 5 hour drive, the same you would have to Boston or NYC.
-We have coached NFL players here, and we will do everything we can to get you to that level too.
-You have the chance to be on ESPN, and win national championships.  You won't have that chance at X,Y,Z schools (with all due respect).
-Mt. Union is a good school, and can prepare you for other things (Ok, maybe not as good as X,Y,Z, but still better than A,B,C)

[ITH radio]

I believe MtU (36k) is also about 3/5 the cost of a Hobart (basically 60k/yr) which could also be a factor. 

[Bombers798891]

Respectfully, let's stop overvaluing the football tradition of some of these Upstate NY schools.

Ithaca has one NCAA playoff win in the last 10 seasons.

Cortland has five NCAA playoff wins in their entire history. They've advanced past the second round twice.

Alfred has qualified for the NCAA's three times and won two NCAA playoff games.

Fisher's got the best mix of recent, sustained success. Several trips into the quarters, one into the semis.

They're good programs, but if we're just talking football, I mean, it's a non-starter. Mount's probably lost 10 games since this kid was born.

All the other stuff is really speculative. Maybe he couldn't afford Hobart/IC. Maybe he realized that Mount Union offered him a better education than Cortland State (shocker) as well as the chance to not have to live in Cortland. Maybe he's just not into ceramics (kidding Pep).

[HScoach]

  I don't have anything to add concerning how he got to Alliance, but I find it interesting that your discussing a back-up sophomore receiver that had ZERO catches in his Mount career prior to 2 weeks ago when the sophomore starter got hurt.    When he came into the game, we had no idea who it was.    Not to say he hasn't played well, especially his blocking,  but he isn't a difference maker.   Yet.

[Jonny Utah]

  I don't have anything to add concerning how he got to Alliance, but I find it interesting that your discussing a back-up sophomore receiver that had ZERO catches in his Mount career prior to 2 weeks ago when the sophomore starter got hurt.    When he came into the game, we had no idea who it was.    Not to say he hasn't played well, especially his blocking,  but he isn't a difference maker.   Yet.

Are we talking about Jasper Collins?  (Issac Collins is from Geneva Ny, but is a football coach, not a player at Mt. Union)

[Bombers798891]

We are talking about Mike Collichio, a sophomore WR from Webster, N.Y., who scored the winning touchdown in the North Central game.

In fairness, it seems like a backup WR for Mount wouldn't get a lot of touches, and maybe he's the next big thing for Mount, but it does seem like we're maybe just overvaluing one play.

[Pat Coleman]

At the risk of sounding 'bad' (like that has ever stopped me), why would a D3 football player to be, leave his 'backyard' (suburban Roch, NY) for Alliance OH?  In DI, you are recruiting with money/scholarships, plus the allure of big time college campus and football atmosphere....you are happy to leave your home for Happy Valley, Columbus, South Bend, etc...


Presumably, at this level though, a kid just wants to continue playing football and go to college.  If that is the case, why do you decide that the place to go grow up and 'get away from your parents' is Alliance OH when Cortland, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Hobart and Alfred are all tradition rich (football, academics, facilities et al) possibilities that also offer the ability for a kid to get a little distance from home.

I certainly get that a Webster kid shuns Fisher because it is literally his back yard...but why not IC?  That is a couple hours away....and its Ithaca.  I mean I know Ithaca sucks, but it is Ithaca...

It has to be the Garcon/Shorts/NFL factor at this point...assuming this kid from Webster (Colicchio WR) has those aspirations perhaps?

Umm... or the chance to win multiple national championships? Mt Union has a pull all its own based on success. While some of those schools you mention had success in the past, or look poised to be competitive, none of them can say "we haven't had a senior class go without a national championship since 1991" or whenever it was....

This. It's all this. Seriously.

[Jonny Utah]

At the risk of sounding 'bad' (like that has ever stopped me), why would a D3 football player to be, leave his 'backyard' (suburban Roch, NY) for Alliance OH?  In DI, you are recruiting with money/scholarships, plus the allure of big time college campus and football atmosphere....you are happy to leave your home for Happy Valley, Columbus, South Bend, etc...


Presumably, at this level though, a kid just wants to continue playing football and go to college.  If that is the case, why do you decide that the place to go grow up and 'get away from your parents' is Alliance OH when Cortland, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Hobart and Alfred are all tradition rich (football, academics, facilities et al) possibilities that also offer the ability for a kid to get a little distance from home.

I certainly get that a Webster kid shuns Fisher because it is literally his back yard...but why not IC?  That is a couple hours away....and its Ithaca.  I mean I know Ithaca sucks, but it is Ithaca...

It has to be the Garcon/Shorts/NFL factor at this point...assuming this kid from Webster (Colicchio WR) has those aspirations perhaps?

Umm... or the chance to win multiple national championships? Mt Union has a pull all its own based on success. While some of those schools you mention had success in the past, or look poised to be competitive, none of them can say "we haven't had a senior class go without a national championship since 1991" or whenever it was....

This. It's all this. Seriously.

Well I think the location has a lot to do with it for someone out of upstate NY. 

Let's say Linfield was Mt. Union.  Would anyone from upstate NY go to Linfield to win a d3 national championship?  Occidental maybe, since they have some national appeal, but I don't think Linfield would have any appeal regardless of how many national championships they have.

[Bombers798891]

Do we actually know if this kid was recruited by any of the schools we're asking about? Sometimes guys slip under the radar. Look at how Michigan State accidentally found Darqueze Dennard, a kid from Georgia.

[Jonny Utah]

Do we actually know if this kid was recruited by any of the schools we're asking about? Sometimes guys slip under the radar. Look at how Michigan State accidentally found Darqueze Dennard, a kid from Georgia.

Oh ok, Collins shouldn't have slipped under anyone radar, the kid from Webster?  Don't know.