FB: Empire 8

[AUPepBand]

Dlip thinks this is a great move for Cortland, the E8, and the east region.

Pep is wondering whether the addition of Buffalo State in 2012, Brockport State in 2014 and Cortland State in 2015 as football affiliates will have any repercussions among the Empire 8 full member fold. Can't believe the decision made a few years back to accept state schools into the conference as football affiliates was unanimous. Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the lively discussion here.

On Saxon Warriors!

The only repercussion(s) that I would guess would be that this could almost guarantee that the Empire 8 will have at a minimal, two teams per year, which is bad for other conferences that may think or believe they should have two teams (which only a few could argue). Then there's the East region having lesser reputable teams to qualify for the playoffs, especially since Cortland State, which usually grabs a bid for the NJAC is going to be fighting for a spot with SJF, Ithaca, Salisbury, and Alfred in most years. Also, you never know how Brockport is going to play in any given week.

Not to mention Buffalo State as well....those Bengals can slay Warhawks!

[ITH radio]

http://ecacsports.com/sports/fall/fball/news/2014_awards_banquet

Fisher gets Lambert

[Ralph Turner]

Holy cow- that is fantastic...
Getting out of the E8 is going to be that much tougher!
Think of CORTACA implications!!!

Wow this is amazing!!
What happens to Salis. and FBurg?
Do they stay?

I think they may be heading to the NJAC along with CNU and Wesley. It would only be right, since they have already added SVU. I think they will have a tough league (comparable to any other). However, Cortland State joining the E8 has been a long time coming. Very Interesting!

Pep heard that Frostburg State would go, along with perhaps Wesley, to the NJAC. No word on Salisbury State, which means they'll likely continue in the E8.

Let's see now, Buffalo State joined in 2012, Brockport State joins in 2014, Cortland State joins in 2015....any word on Morrisville State? ...and would that mean that the E8 would accept Alfred State were they to want in?

Things getting interesting...

On Saxon Warriors!

Catching up on the off-season news.

I agree with PEP. This looks like a choreographed migration of teams to conferences that make more sense.

I keep anticipating that the Capital AC is adding football by the end of the decade. Dropping from 10 teams to 8 teams is workable and the E8 would be appreciative of Salisbury and FSU and how they helped the E8 maintain the AQ.

[sjfcards]

Holy cow- that is fantastic...
Getting out of the E8 is going to be that much tougher!
Think of CORTACA implications!!!

Wow this is amazing!!
What happens to Salis. and FBurg?
Do they stay?

I think they may be heading to the NJAC along with CNU and Wesley. It would only be right, since they have already added SVU. I think they will have a tough league (comparable to any other). However, Cortland State joining the E8 has been a long time coming. Very Interesting!

Pep heard that Frostburg State would go, along with perhaps Wesley, to the NJAC. No word on Salisbury State, which means they'll likely continue in the E8.

Let's see now, Buffalo State joined in 2012, Brockport State joins in 2014, Cortland State joins in 2015....any word on Morrisville State? ...and would that mean that the E8 would accept Alfred State were they to want in?

Things getting interesting...

On Saxon Warriors!

Catching up on the off-season news.

I agree with PEP. This looks like a choreographed migration of teams to conferences that make more sense.

I keep anticipating that the Capital AC is adding football by the end of the decade. Dropping from 10 teams to 8 teams is workable and the E8 would be appreciative of Salisbury and FSU and how they helped the E8 maintain the AQ.

I would agree it is a question of when, not if, Salisbury and FSU leave the E8. Adding Cortland is a great move for the league in my mind. They add one of the stronger programs from the NJAC, and give all the teams a relatively short road trip (other than Salisbury and FSU). Cortland is so centrally located, they are about a two hour bus ride for several schools (Fisher, Utica, Hartwick, AU), and even less for IC.

[D3viewer]

EMPIRE 8 FOOTBALL RESHUFFLES

The Morrisville State football team will join the E8 as an affiliate member for the start of the 2015 season.
As previously announced, Cortland is also joining for the 2015 season.
Frostburg State and Salisbury State will leave the league at the end of the 2014 season for the New Jersey Athletic Conf., making the Empire 8 a New York-only conf.

[AUPepBand]

Yes! Pep's alma mater in the Empire 8 Football Conference!

http://www.empire8.com/news/2014/3/2/FB_0302145120.aspx

...but Pep will always be a Saxon fan. Fact is, Pep always talked so much about Alfred University and the Saxons while a student at Morrisville College that Pep's newswriting prof called him "Alfred"! After two years at Moo'ville, it was back home to manage the historic but fledgling Alfred Sun that suffered from an eclipse from June 1970 to June 1973. Pep figured he'd do that "until a real job came along!" Still looking. In fact, one time was looking elsewhere, out of state, and was told I could not leave. Looks like Pep's "serving a life sentence" in Alfred.

On Saxon Warriors!

[Bombers798891]

So, trading Salisbury and Frostburg for Cortland and Morrisville strikes me, competitively, as nearly a wash. Brockport probably fills out the middle of the conference.

So will the E8 and NJAC sit there cannibalizing each other while the LL continues to be a one-team league?

[jknezek]

So, trading Salisbury and Frostburg for Cortland and Morrisville strikes me, competitively, as nearly a wash. Brockport probably fills out the middle of the conference.

So will the E8 and NJAC sit there cannibalizing each other while the LL continues to be a one-team league?

I see it less as cannibalizing as a natural re-alignment into common sense. The geographic swap makes excellent sense, and I think the competition levels are close to a wash. Overall, this is a really good thing for the E8 and a pretty good thing for the NJAC. It does leave the NJAC significantly more exposed should the CAC ever get enough members, but that is a problem for the future.

[ExTartanPlayer]

So, trading Salisbury and Frostburg for Cortland and Morrisville strikes me, competitively, as nearly a wash. Brockport probably fills out the middle of the conference.

So will the E8 and NJAC sit there cannibalizing each other while the LL continues to be a one-team league?

I see it less as cannibalizing as a natural re-alignment into common sense. The geographic swap makes excellent sense, and I think the competition levels are close to a wash. Overall, this is a really good thing for the E8 and a pretty good thing for the NJAC. It does leave the NJAC significantly more exposed should the CAC ever get enough members, but that is a problem for the future.

I agree.

[Bombers798891]

So, trading Salisbury and Frostburg for Cortland and Morrisville strikes me, competitively, as nearly a wash. Brockport probably fills out the middle of the conference.

So will the E8 and NJAC sit there cannibalizing each other while the LL continues to be a one-team league?

I see it less as cannibalizing as a natural re-alignment into common sense. The geographic swap makes excellent sense, and I think the competition levels are close to a wash. Overall, this is a really good thing for the E8 and a pretty good thing for the NJAC. It does leave the NJAC significantly more exposed should the CAC ever get enough members, but that is a problem for the future.

I agree.

Right, except those two things are not mutually exclusive.

The moves make perfect sense from a geographical standpoint, but the E8 and NJAC teams will have to duke it out for a Pool A bid while probably knocking themselves out of the ever-shrinking Pool C in the process, while the LL can continue to get teams in the NCAA's at 5-5 or playing a 9-game schedule (or 8 or whatever Hobart decides will be least challenging to their delicate sensibilities)

[jknezek]

Right, except those two things are not mutually exclusive.

The moves make perfect sense from a geographical standpoint, but the E8 and NJAC teams will have to duke it out for a Pool A bid while probably knocking themselves out of the ever-shrinking Pool C in the process, while the LL can continue to get teams in the NCAA's at 5-5 or playing a 9-game schedule (or 8 or whatever Hobart decides will be least challenging to their delicate sensibilities)

Weak and strong conferences are always going to exist. The LL has had periods of balance in the past. Right now there is one dominant team. There is nothing unusual about that in D3. See the ASC and UMHB, the OAC and UMU, the WIAC lately, the CC and JHU lately, the NWC and Linfield, some conferences have long been dominated by one member. There is no point in letting it irritate you. Pool A and 32 team tournaments are much better than the pre-AQ option.

[Bombers798891]

Right, except those two things are not mutually exclusive.

The moves make perfect sense from a geographical standpoint, but the E8 and NJAC teams will have to duke it out for a Pool A bid while probably knocking themselves out of the ever-shrinking Pool C in the process, while the LL can continue to get teams in the NCAA's at 5-5 or playing a 9-game schedule (or 8 or whatever Hobart decides will be least challenging to their delicate sensibilities)

Weak and strong conferences are always going to exist. The LL has had periods of balance in the past. Right now there is one dominant team. There is nothing unusual about that in D3. See the ASC and UMHB, the OAC and UMU, the WIAC lately, the CC and JHU lately, the NWC and Linfield, some conferences have long been dominated by one member. There is no point in letting it irritate you. Pool A and 32 team tournaments are much better than the pre-AQ option.

What am I "seeing" in these other conferences that's supposed to be similar to the LL?

The WIAC was so good last year that one of its teams finished in the Top 15 and missed the playoffs.

Hardin-Baylor plays Wesley and Trinity in the regular season.

The OAC gets a 2nd team in the playoffs frequently and Mount's OOC opponent in the last two years, Franklin, finished in the Top 25 both seasons.

Linfield schedules tough teams like Cal Lutheran and has to fill out a schedule playing in a state with three other D-III schools.

JHU has one OOC game a season, and three of the last four seasons, has played a 7 win Randolph-Macon team.

Hobart plays in a weak, one-bid conference, doesn't schedule ambitiously OOC, and trots out 8- and 9-game schedules despite the fact that there are like 16 D-III teams in New York alone. The dominance is not the issue, the scheduling is. So your comparisons make little sense to me, since Hobart is in no way similar to any of those schools you've mentioned.

My point, however, is not that this irritates me (though it does), but that maybe the LL teams are better positioned than E8/NJAC teams going forward. If everything is going to Pool A, why not play in a weak 6-team conference rather than the NJAC or E8?

[jknezek]

What am I "seeing" in these other conferences that's supposed to be similar to the LL?

The WIAC was so good last year that one of its teams finished in the Top 15 and missed the playoffs.

Hardin-Baylor plays Wesley and Trinity in the regular season.

The OAC gets a 2nd team in the playoffs frequently and Mount's OOC opponent in the last two years, Franklin, finished in the Top 25 both seasons.

Linfield schedules tough teams like Cal Lutheran and has to fill out a schedule playing in a state with three other D-III schools.

JHU has one OOC game a season, and three of the last four seasons, has played a 7 win Randolph-Macon team.

Hobart plays in a weak, one-bid conference, doesn't schedule ambitiously OOC, and trots out 8- and 9-game schedules despite the fact that there are like 16 D-III teams in New York alone. The dominance is not the issue, the scheduling is. So your comparisons make little sense to me, since Hobart is in no way similar to any of those schools you've mentioned.

My point, however, is not that this irritates me (though it does), but that maybe the LL teams are better positioned than E8/NJAC teams going forward. If everything is going to Pool A, why not play in a weak 6-team conference rather than the NJAC or E8?

I wasn't overly concerned about Hobart's OOC schedule. They are in a Pool A conference, so OOC doesn't matter if they win their conference. Their recent dominance of their conference, and therefore the ongoing presence in the tournament, is similar to many other schools that dominate a single conference. You do make good points in that they aren't particularly challenging OOC, but that doesn't really mean anything for actually making the tournament.

And yes, being a strong team in a weak AQ conference is an advantage to getting into the tournament versus a competitve conference. I 100% agree. But the fact that it isn't fair isn't going to change. However, you'd have to play in a weak 7 team conference, not 6. Yes the E8, NJAC and more than a few other conferences are better than the LL. But there just isn't anything to be done and I'll reaffirm that the system we have now, even if it rewards Hobart the same way it rewards the E8 champion with a tournment bid, is better than what we had before 1999.

I'm always telling my 4 year old that "life isn't fair." This is just another one of those instances.

[Bombers798891]

What am I "seeing" in these other conferences that's supposed to be similar to the LL?

The WIAC was so good last year that one of its teams finished in the Top 15 and missed the playoffs.

Hardin-Baylor plays Wesley and Trinity in the regular season.

The OAC gets a 2nd team in the playoffs frequently and Mount's OOC opponent in the last two years, Franklin, finished in the Top 25 both seasons.

Linfield schedules tough teams like Cal Lutheran and has to fill out a schedule playing in a state with three other D-III schools.

JHU has one OOC game a season, and three of the last four seasons, has played a 7 win Randolph-Macon team.

Hobart plays in a weak, one-bid conference, doesn't schedule ambitiously OOC, and trots out 8- and 9-game schedules despite the fact that there are like 16 D-III teams in New York alone. The dominance is not the issue, the scheduling is. So your comparisons make little sense to me, since Hobart is in no way similar to any of those schools you've mentioned.

My point, however, is not that this irritates me (though it does), but that maybe the LL teams are better positioned than E8/NJAC teams going forward. If everything is going to Pool A, why not play in a weak 6-team conference rather than the NJAC or E8?

I wasn't overly concerned about Hobart's OOC schedule. They are in a Pool A conference, so OOC doesn't matter if they win their conference. Their recent dominance of their conference, and therefore the ongoing presence in the tournament, is similar to many other schools that dominate a single conference. You do make good points in that they aren't particularly challenging OOC, but that doesn't really mean anything for actually making the tournament.

And yes, being a strong team in a weak AQ conference is an advantage to getting into the tournament versus a competitve conference. I 100% agree. But the fact that it isn't fair isn't going to change. However, you'd have to play in a weak 7 team conference, not 6. Yes the E8, NJAC and more than a few other conferences are better than the LL. But there just isn't anything to be done and I'll reaffirm that the system we have now, even if it rewards Hobart the same way it rewards the E8 champion with a tournment bid, is better than what we had before 1999.

I'm always telling my 4 year old that "life isn't fair." This is just another one of those instances.

Eh, Pool A as a whole isn't really fair, but it is what it is. I wasn't really trying to bring Hobart's whole thing into the mix and argue fairness. It's just interesting that those two conferences have chosen to be ambitious and make their conferences strong and challenging while the LL champ does pretty much everything possible to avoid a challenge.

[jknezek]

I'm not sure it's all that much about strengthening the conference, though it is a good byproduct that they can play up. For the NJAC, it's about maintaining the AQ. For the E8 it's about maintaining the AQ while creating a better situation for the members. I really think the E8 got the better end of the deal, marginally, by becoming so much more geographically compact while maintaining the competitiveness. That was a good trick and it really makes for a fabulous conference.

The NJAC, as it has since the AQ was initiated, just had to scramble for members. Luckily it worked out, and adding Wesley and Salisbury is very good, adding CNU is a nice bonus as well. SVA is a bit of a lame duck, but probably not much farther than CNU. Still, it's not quite as nice a situation as the E8 worked themselves into.

Congratulations are due all around for making a move that is so incredibly sensible.