FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

Now, from the other side: I've seen certain East fans complain when certain East teams agree to play teams from the perceived lightweight conferences, so my warning there is that you can't have it both ways.  Don't complain that the ECFC/NEFC/MASCAC teams won't play anybody, then complain when your team (or another team from your conference) schedules one of them.

Fair point, especially since I'm sure I've done it.

[dlippiel]

Now, from the other side: I've seen certain East fans complain when certain East teams agree to play teams from the perceived lightweight conferences, so my warning there is that you can't have it both ways.  Don't complain that the ECFC/NEFC/MASCAC teams won't play anybody, then complain when your team (or another team from your conference) schedules one of them.

Very true...and yes Dlip has done this when Union lost to WNEC...

[Jonny Utah]

The NCAA has pretty much made itself clear on other sports that the AQ/Pool A bid policy is here to stay.  D3 football has 75% of its bids as pool A, and 25% B and C.  I think we could eliminate pool B bids first, and just combine them with pool C.  That might help a little. 

As long as you keep a 75/25 ratio for pool A/B-C, I'm not sure there is much more we can do.  I also have sort of turned on the pool A idea and support it in general, as long as good teams get in at pool C.  I don't see many years where great teams get left out and people are really complaining.

It also makes the regular season mean a lot more.  The Cortaca game will be huge every year now in terms of playoff implications.  If you soften pool C criteria even more, then the game might not mean so much (in terms of playoff spots).

Winning percentages for league champs is a tough one, because that pushes some teams to play softer schedules.

[jackson5]

Is your proposal win your conference AND be in the top 25, or win your conference OR be in the top 25?  I read it as and because thats what you've said the whole time. If it's not and but instead or that's just impossible because there's not enough bids.

If you're going with you have to win your conference and be in the top 25, then I can't help you as you are too slow to make the connection as to why that'll end up with only 6-7 conferences being in the tournament.

Jackson, there's no need for insults. There are more than 6-7 conference champions in the final regular season Top 25 every year, and you know that. 

My proposal has nothing to do with putting any specific conferences in or out of the playoffs. I'd be totally fine if the Top 25 were teams from 25 separate conferences, and we had all 27 conferences represented. I've long called  for more parity in the sport. I simply don't think conference champs should automatically get in.

It's not about any conference, even if the ECFC is a focal point. I didn't like that a 5-5 St. Lawrence team got in the playoffs in 2010. You can substitute any conference you want in there. Heck, if IC loses to Fisher, Buff State, and Cortland, but manages to win their conference, I would advocate them being left out.

The issue once again is you think that getting rid of the autobids wouldn't put the NEFC and ECFC at a major disadvantage recruiting wise. I've explained six times what's going to happen. St Lawerence or Alfred is going to say, why are you looking at Norwich or WNEC? Yeah you'll play but they haven't had a conference champion in the tournament in over 10 years. Come here and you can play meaningful games and when we win the conference we'll actually get to play in the national title. If you want to have this discussion you have to think of the side effects of it. Or you can keep ignoring recruiting like extartan does and just thinking that Hobart and St John fisher keep getting lucky that their students happen to be good at football.

For the scheduling issue. It's not as simple as it sounds. There's only so many non-conference games. Hobart can't play the whole NEFC every year. And you can bet that the top schools will stop scheduling the bottom feeders after the NCAA tells them that their scheduling wasn't strong enough. So even if they used to play 3 MASCAC schools, now that number will go down to only one or two. So now as a MASCAC school you have a non-conference rival and two games to  play with. You gotta find a LL or NJAC or E8 school that wants to play you. Then you gotta make sure that they are a good team. WNEC last year had 2 Liberty league teams and a MASCAC that they set up two years ago. Sounds good on paper until Union crapped the bed and Springfield ended up .500 in conference play. Granted WNEC didn't have a great season anyways, but even if they ran the table you can bet the argument would be "Oh they barely beat two .500  liberty league teams and who cares if they beat Westfield state? There's no way they would've hung with Hobart like St. Lawrence did."  So this whole argument of "Just play a better schedule, beat the top teams. and get better" isn't as simple as you keep trying to make it sound. If it was you can bet that more teams would've done it. Now is their fluke years when .500 teams get in over one or two loss teams? Yes. But they're rare and getting rid of the autobid isn't an answer to that.

[Pat Coleman]

The NCAA has pretty much made itself clear on other sports that the AQ/Pool A bid policy is here to stay.  D3 football has 75% of its bids as pool A, and 25% B and C.  I think we could eliminate pool B bids first, and just combine them with pool C.  That might help a little. 

We'll be pretty close once the MASCAC and SAA get their AQs and Wesley is in the NJAC. Probably won't be the necessary 9.3 teams in Pool B at that point.

[fisheralum91]

Well- we are almost to the weekend - any thoughts on this weekends match ups?

Of the E8 games being played- I will be very interested to see the UC-SU outcome!

Oh- btw- the Fisher/UC game is getting more and more press.
It not only will be televised, but it is being hyped all over town!
The local Chamber of Commerce even got into the mix encouraging attendance!

I have gentlemen's bets all over the place!

[Bombers798891]

Jackson,

No one is ignoring the recruiting. ExTartanPlayer told you that he had several teammates who had no clue how the playoff system even worked. Ithaca was an independent, and not eligible for a Pool A bid, until 2004, and they managed to recruit athletes just fine. Heck, they'd win national championships by beating teams who were in conferences. Buffalo State made something like six straight NCAA appearances as an independent. Wesley's never seemed harmed by their lack of a Pool A bid. Huntingdon made the playoffs as an independent in 2009, IIRC

Program quality, playing time, coaching, facilities, academics, financial aid, proximity to home—or distance from it, the town...seriously, you think a good coach can't sell these things to a recruit, with or without the autobid? Of course, the auto-bid helps, but it's one tool of many that a coach has to sell recruits on.

[Bombers798891]

Well- we are almost to the weekend - any thoughts on this weekends match ups?

Of the E8 games being played- I will be very interested to see the UC-SU outcome!

Oh- btw- the Fisher/UC game is getting more and more press.
It not only will be televised, but it is being hyped all over town!
The local Chamber of Commerce even got into the mix encouraging attendance!

I have gentlemen's bets all over the place!

I'm interested in that game as well. Salisbury's defense has been surprisingly weak all year, and the Gulls' mix of stunning wins (Fisher) and humbling losses (Wesley, Buff State) make them hard to get a handle on. Utica's doing their usual Utica thing, making people wonder for 9 weeks how good the team really is. I think they're sneaky good, but have they ever stopped the triple option?

[fisheralum91]

Over the last 3 years they(Utica)  have given up 34, 63, and 70 pts to SU.
So no they have not figured out the option.

[D3MAFAN]

Over the last 3 years they(Utica)  have given up 34, 63, and 70 pts to SU.
So no they have not figured out the option.

I think if they were playing at home, they would have a better chance. However, they may catch Salisbury slipping due to their big win at SJF this past weekend. Nevertheless, this is probably the worst secondary since E8 teams have been playing Salisbury, so Utica may have a chance if they go to the Air Raid Attack and hopefully catch a few breaks with the Option offense occasional fumbles.

[Bombers798891]

Over the last 3 years they(Utica)  have given up 34, 63, and 70 pts to SU.
So no they have not figured out the option.

I think if they were playing at home, they would have a better chance. However, they may catch Salisbury slipping due to their big win at SJF this past weekend. Nevertheless, this is probably the worst secondary since E8 teams have been playing Salisbury, so Utica may have a chance if they go to the Air Raid attach and hopefully catch a few breaks with the Option offense occasional fumbles.

Yeah, it seems clear Salisbury's defense isn't what we're used to it being. If Acevedo is playing, Utica may have a puncher's chance

[Bombers798891]

Ithaca back in the TT as one of the teams most likely to be upset—although Pat says he doesn't feel great about any game— and also as a Game of the Week selection.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with Ryan's take that, "On paper, the edge goes to Buffalo State" given that Buffalo State lost, at home, to a team Ithaca beat on the road the following week.

Can the Bombers continue to defy TT predictions, (and frequently, my own)?

[fisheralum91]

Shhhhhhhhhh.
No.....

But i disagree as well..
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[AUPepBand]

Ithaca back in the TT as one of the teams most likely to be upset—although Pat says he doesn't feel great about any game— and also as a Game of the Week selection.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with Ryan's take that, "On paper, the edge goes to Buffalo State" given that Buffalo State lost, at home, to a team Ithaca beat on the road the following week.

Can the Bombers continue to defy TT predictions, (and frequently, my own)?

Who dat?

[boobyhasgameyo]

I can't get Ithaca game to stream for some reason.  Updates would be greatly appreciated.