FB: Empire 8

[jknezek]

  What really rankles me is that this seems to have become accepted, expected behavior.

I'd give you +100 K if I could for this.

Ithaca and Cortland can do all the after-the-fact tsk tsk tsk they want. The bottom line is that the schools/towns *know* this type of idiocy goes on, and while they may not be overly encouraging it, they're certainly tacitly doing so by failing to effectively enforce their own rules and execute common sense

I was talking to a college admin type at a game this year and we were discussing the issue of underage drinking and it's resultant problems on college campuses. I was never a big drinker, even in college, and hardly touch the stuff now. It's just not my taste. But the admin type said schools are really in a rock and a hard spot. You want to crack down and you need to crack down for legal reasons. However, it is very painful to do so. Schools have found a very clear relationship between mercilessly cracking down on drinking and admissions and donations. They have also found that cracking down on major events issues, as I'd assume Cortaca is considered, has the same affect. Largely because these are highly visible "fun" events that help draw students to campus. And while we consider obnoxious drunkenness a problem, your average h.s. junior or senior is going to see it as an exciting draw to that school.

These are the same issues inherent in cracking down on the Greek system. It's all tied together. People look back fondly on their stupidity of youth and while they profess not to want their kids to experience it, or that it bothers them now, it's also part and parcel of the stories we tell at reunions and even to our children when they get age appropriate. We don't remember the extremes, or we tend to edit ourselves out of the extremes as if we weren't there, while still laughing about the "good old times." And when colleges start stepping on the toes of those "good old time" memories, there is a clear repercussion.

So what is to be done? I don't know. Frankly I'm amazed things like the Greek system has survived to this modern age. I'm not surprised that stupidity, especially alcohol fueled stupidity, has survived. You just can't legislate stupidity, especially youthful stupidity, out of existence, as much as we'd like to try as we get older.

I will say that most schools have found the most palatable option has been to let local law enforcement handle it. That way the school can remain disassociated from the consequences while something is still done. On the other hand, local law enforcement wants it to be a university problem because they have other things they want to spend taxpayer dollars doing. Plus going in force on a college campus arresting drunks is a messy, irritating, horrible job that leads to a lot of complications.

[Bombers798891]

So we talk a lot about SOS on these boards, which got me thinking: Who played the toughest regular-season schedule of the recent era? I'll define this as 1999 on, since that's what there are records of on this site.

My pick: The 2001 Buffalo State Bengals in a landslide. They played two non D-III schools, Robert Morris and Mansfield, and then the most insane D-III slate I've ever seen:

11-2 Rowan
11-1 Washington and Jefferson
11-2 Ithaca (Lost in regular season to Brockport, playoffs to Rowan)
9-2 Montclair (Lost to Rowan in Reg. Season, Ithaca in playoffs)
9-2 Brockport State (Beat Ithaca in regular season, lost to Montclair in Regular season, to Rowan in playoffs)
8-2 Albion
5-5 Cortland State (Lost to Brockport, Montclair, and Ithaca, beat Rowan)

Seriously, that blows my mind. Five playoff teams that went a combined 51-9 losing eight to other NCAA playoff teams, and one to Cortland, who Buff State also played, and was probably better than their 5-5 record.

Times have changed obviously, and these types of schedules are largely no longer possible, but that might be the best regular-season schedule I've ever seen.

[fisheralum91]

This is one of the many reasons I prefer the feel of a D3 game to any major football event, but why on earth would someone feel it is OK to throw trash at another human being because he is wearing another teams jersey? I am honestly totally lost on this one.

1. Alcohol
2. Alcohol
3. Some people take sports way, way, way, too seriously.
4. Alcohol

   What Bomber said minus #3. I grew up 6 blocks for the "old Rockpile" War memorial Stadium, corner of Jefferson and best - Buffalo NY. My dad had season tickets for he and I and 3 of his friends did the same with their sons. 10-12 of us from 1964-68 sitting side by side and "ENJOYING" the game. You could actually walk into the stadium with 6 packs! But folks didn't get wasted before or during the game (at least in sec 24).

    My last experience was 4 years ago when I bought 20 end zone seats so that my children and nephews would be surrounded by 10 of my biggest friends (rows 9-12, seats 5-9). I knew that going to a Bills game, where the entrance has beer cans piled up 8/9 feet high, could be a harrowing experience. And it was. Fighting, puking and 1 lady, sitting directly behind us, bared her breasts during a "wave" in the 2nd quarter. I haven't been back to Bills game since then.

  The tailgating, at least in Buffalo, plus the endless drinking till they stop serving in the 3rd quarter, has IMHO, made pro football Un-Family Friendly (unless you are sitting in someones box)! I hope that they keep selling out in Buffalo (and showing the games on t.v.) and that my Beloved BENGALS (BUff State that is) keep winning. Coyer field is much safer than RW Statdium!

NFL stadiums have turned into weekend warrior dude meathead puke city-ville.  That said, I will never have issues with ladies showing boobies even if kids are with me.

"I like Vicky Vallencourt and she likes me back, and she showed me her boobies and I like them too!!!!"

[jknezek]

That is a serious schedule. It would be real hard to do that type of schedule now a days, but Louisiana College might get as close as possible this year:

Huntingdon 4-2, in the hunt for the USASC
Alcorn State FCS
TLU  6-0, in the Pool B hunt
Wesley -- 6-0 in the Pool B hunt
UMHB -- 5-0, ASC leader
ETBU -- 3-2, losses to D2 school and TLU

Granted the rest of the schedule isn't too impressive, and any of the above may still fall apart, but you look at that list and just wonder how beat up the LC kids are going to be. Especially when you realize that LC started the season with the teams above, adding only NAIA Bacone as a breather.

Not the same as Buff State, but LC is playing a nasty front 7 games.

[ExTartanPlayer]

So we talk a lot about SOS on these boards, which got me thinking: Who played the toughest regular-season schedule of the recent era? I'll define this as 1999 on, since that's what there are records of on this site.

My pick: The 2001 Buffalo State Bengals in a landslide. They played two non D-III schools, Robert Morris and Mansfield, and then the most insane D-III slate I've ever seen:

11-2 Rowan
11-1 Washington and Jefferson
11-2 Ithaca (Lost in regular season to Brockport, playoffs to Rowan)
9-2 Montclair (Lost to Rowan in Reg. Season, Ithaca in playoffs)
9-2 Brockport State (Beat Ithaca in regular season, lost to Montclair in Regular season, to Rowan in playoffs)
8-2 Albion
5-5 Cortland State (Lost to Brockport, Montclair, and Ithaca, beat Rowan)

Seriously, that blows my mind. Five playoff teams that went a combined 51-9 losing eight to other NCAA playoff teams, and one to Cortland, who Buff State also played, and was probably better than their 5-5 record.

Times have changed obviously, and these types of schedules are largely no longer possible, but that might be the best regular-season schedule I've ever seen.

Fun conversation topic.

One thing worth pointing out: it was only possible for Buff State to play that many teams with 9+ wins because they all beat Buff State; a conference champion will be dealing all of its foes a loss, and thus all of their in-conference opponents will cap out at 9-1.

Man, that was a pretty bonkers schedule.  They went 1-1 with respectable results against an FCS opponent and a D2 opponent and then lost seven straight D3 games.

It's going to be hard to top that (as you said, that schedule is an outlier, partly because they were an independent)

The two toughest that I've stumbled upon this year (just the toughest I have casually bumped into, not saying this is the be-all, end-all) are UW-La Crosse and Bethel.

UW-La Crosse opened with Dubuque (midpack IIAC team), then played at St. Thomas, UMHB, and UWW, and is onto the rest of the WIAC slate.  If we take it at face value that any team in a conference with > 7 teams can only have so many "really good" conference opponents, I think the nonconference games of a decent Dubuque and then UST and UMHB have to be about as tough of an OOC slate as you'll see for most anyone, and following that with UWW....yikes.  That's a three game stretch includes a 2012 Stagg Bowl participant, 2013 semifinalist that lost to UWW by a point, and the 2013 national champions, and all (with possible exception of UST) appear to be up to their usual standards again.

Bethel has the eight-game MIAC slate (which has at least three, possibly four, "really good" teams in Concordia-Moorhead, St. John's, St. Thomas, and Gustavus Adolphus) plus on-the-way-to-10-0 Wartburg, currently ranked #6, and a 5-0 Chicago team that could finish at 7-2 or 8-1 even with a loss to Bethel.  I'd vote that the MIAC slate plus two currently undefeated teams is about as hard as it gets for anyone in a conference with > 7 teams (assuming, of course, that Wartburg runs the table and UC finishes 8-1 or 7-2).  Did anyone in the E8 (a conference that I view as about on par with MIAC) play two comparable OOC games?  Salisbury, maybe, depending on whether Christopher Newport ends up winning the USA South.

I'll also toss 2013 Wesley into the mix, although they have a few oddball weak ones like Alfred State.  But their schedule included:

6-4 Widener (in contention for MAC title into the final weekend)
7-4 Salisbury (beat SJF, one-point loss to Ithaca away from tying for E8 title)
13-1 UMHB (ASC champion, national semis)
5-4 Birmingham Southern
7-3 Huntingdon (second place in USA South, actually beat the conference's playoff rep)
9-3 Rowan (NJAC champion)
...and...
1-6 Alfred State

I remember discussing this during SOS discussions last year and noting that they hadn't really beaten a MONSTER opponent, but rather had just beaten mostly "pretty good" teams.  Still, except for Alfred State, they did not play a single D3 team with a losing record, and most of the teams they played either won their conference (2) or remained in the league-title discussion (3) into the season's last two weeks.  Plus, they dealt several of these teams a loss, so if you make that adjustment for this vs. the aforementioned Buff State slate, several of these teams have one extra loss because Wesley beat them while all of those teams beat Buff State.  They also played an FCS startup that went 5-6, a Menlo team that went 5-5 (to figure out where they'd stack up in Division III, that Menlo team lost 28-21 to a Pacific team that went 7-3 and played one-score ballgames against Linfield and Pacific Lutheran), and a Virginia-Lynchburg team that I can't find much on but didn't seem to be any good.

[Bombers798891]

Yeah, it's worth noting that Buff State went 1-8 that season. Still, what stood out to me was that of those five teams, there was only one bad loss.

Another team I considered was 2004 Brockport, who played:

#6 Rowan (10-3)
#15 St. John Fisher (10-2)
#18 Salisbury (10-1)
#20 Ithaca (9-2)
TCNJ (7-2)
Wesley (8-2)

There's only 3 NCAA teams there, but since Brockport was very good, they probably hurt their own case by knocking out potential at-large teams in Ithaca and TCNJ (kind of the opposite of what happened with Buff State, who probably helped a couple of teams win Pool C bids) But appearances by a 4-6 Buff State team and a 2-8 Frostburg also knocked them down a peg

[AUPepBand]

This is one of the many reasons I prefer the feel of a D3 game to any major football event, but why on earth would someone feel it is OK to throw trash at another human being because he is wearing another teams jersey? I am honestly totally lost on this one.

1. Alcohol
2. Alcohol
3. Some people take sports way, way, way, too seriously.
4. Alcohol

   What Bomber said minus #3. I grew up 6 blocks for the "old Rockpile" War memorial Stadium, corner of Jefferson and best - Buffalo NY. My dad had season tickets for he and I and 3 of his friends did the same with their sons. 10-12 of us from 1964-68 sitting side by side and "ENJOYING" the game. You could actually walk into the stadium with 6 packs! But folks didn't get wasted before or during the game (at least in sec 24).

    My last experience was 4 years ago when I bought 20 end zone seats so that my children and nephews would be surrounded by 10 of my biggest friends (rows 9-12, seats 5-9). I knew that going to a Bills game, where the entrance has beer cans piled up 8/9 feet high, could be a harrowing experience. And it was. Fighting, puking and 1 lady, sitting directly behind us, bared her breasts during a "wave" in the 2nd quarter. I haven't been back to Bills game since then.

  The tailgating, at least in Buffalo, plus the endless drinking till they stop serving in the 3rd quarter, has IMHO, made pro football Un-Family Friendly (unless you are sitting in someones box)! I hope that they keep selling out in Buffalo (and showing the games on t.v.) and that my Beloved BENGALS (BUff State that is) keep winning. Coyer field is much safer than RW Statdium!

Pep felt very safe at Coyer Field despite it being Homecoming when the Saxons were in town....and the center section of bleachers were fenced off for construction of a new press box, making seating rather scarce. Despite several attempts by the public address announcer to get the "visitors' to move from the 20 to 33 yard-lines section down to the goal line to 15 yard line section, Pep had made himself "at home" at the 33 yard line as did the rest of the Saxon fans who filled that section. There were available seats and some Bengal fans came and sat there but some left, being annoyed by either the score or the Saxon fans.

Pep is just hoping the Saxons can muster a similar effort at Yunevich Stadium Saterday against Brockport State that they demonstrated at Coyer Field. It was one of AU's better played games this season and, in hindsight, Pep is applauding the Saxons even more for winning at Coyer.

On Saxon Warriors!

[middlerelief]

Yeah, it's worth noting that Buff State went 1-8 that season. Still, what stood out to me was that of those five teams, there was only one bad loss.

Another team I considered was 2004 Brockport, who played:

#6 Rowan (10-3)
#15 St. John Fisher (10-2)
#18 Salisbury (10-1)
#20 Ithaca (9-2)
TCNJ (7-2)
Wesley (8-2)

There's only 3 NCAA teams there, but since Brockport was very good, they probably hurt their own case by knocking out potential at-large teams in Ithaca and TCNJ (kind of the opposite of what happened with Buff State, who probably helped a couple of teams win Pool C bids) But appearances by a 4-6 Buff State team and a 2-8 Frostburg also knocked them down a peg

The 2012 Buff State also had a tough one, and maybe the most head scratching season I've seen.

Played and BEAT: UWW, SJF, Ithaca, and Cortland

but somehow lost to Utica and Brockport and didn't even make the ECACs that year!!

[@d3jason]

So we talk a lot about SOS on these boards, which got me thinking: Who played the toughest regular-season schedule of the recent era? I'll define this as 1999 on, since that's what there are records of on this site.

My pick: The 2001 Buffalo State Bengals in a landslide. They played two non D-III schools, Robert Morris and Mansfield, and then the most insane D-III slate I've ever seen:

11-2 Rowan
11-1 Washington and Jefferson
11-2 Ithaca (Lost in regular season to Brockport, playoffs to Rowan)
9-2 Montclair (Lost to Rowan in Reg. Season, Ithaca in playoffs)
9-2 Brockport State (Beat Ithaca in regular season, lost to Montclair in Regular season, to Rowan in playoffs)
8-2 Albion
5-5 Cortland State (Lost to Brockport, Montclair, and Ithaca, beat Rowan)

Seriously, that blows my mind. Five playoff teams that went a combined 51-9 losing eight to other NCAA playoff teams, and one to Cortland, who Buff State also played, and was probably better than their 5-5 record.

Times have changed obviously, and these types of schedules are largely no longer possible, but that might be the best regular-season schedule I've ever seen.

Fun conversation topic.

One thing worth pointing out: it was only possible for Buff State to play that many teams with 9+ wins because they all beat Buff State; a conference champion will be dealing all of its foes a loss, and thus all of their in-conference opponents will cap out at 9-1.

Man, that was a pretty bonkers schedule.  They went 1-1 with respectable results against an FCS opponent and a D2 opponent and then lost seven straight D3 games.

It's going to be hard to top that (as you said, that schedule is an outlier, partly because they were an independent)

The two toughest that I've stumbled upon this year (just the toughest I have casually bumped into, not saying this is the be-all, end-all) are UW-La Crosse and Bethel.

UW-La Crosse opened with Dubuque (midpack IIAC team), then played at St. Thomas, UMHB, and UWW, and is onto the rest of the WIAC slate.  If we take it at face value that any team in a conference with > 7 teams can only have so many "really good" conference opponents, I think the nonconference games of a decent Dubuque and then UST and UMHB have to be about as tough of an OOC slate as you'll see for most anyone, and following that with UWW....yikes.  That's a three game stretch includes a 2012 Stagg Bowl participant, 2013 semifinalist that lost to UWW by a point, and the 2013 national champions, and all (with possible exception of UST) appear to be up to their usual standards again.

Bethel has the eight-game MIAC slate (which has at least three, possibly four, "really good" teams in Concordia-Moorhead, St. John's, St. Thomas, and Gustavus Adolphus) plus on-the-way-to-10-0 Wartburg, currently ranked #6, and a 5-0 Chicago team that could finish at 7-2 or 8-1 even with a loss to Bethel.  I'd vote that the MIAC slate plus two currently undefeated teams is about as hard as it gets for anyone in a conference with > 7 teams (assuming, of course, that Wartburg runs the table and UC finishes 8-1 or 7-2).  Did anyone in the E8 (a conference that I view as about on par with MIAC) play two comparable OOC games?  Salisbury, maybe, depending on whether Christopher Newport ends up winning the USA South.

I'll also toss 2013 Wesley into the mix, although they have a few oddball weak ones like Alfred State.  But their schedule included:

6-4 Widener (in contention for MAC title into the final weekend)
7-4 Salisbury (beat SJF, one-point loss to Ithaca away from tying for E8 title)
13-1 UMHB (ASC champion, national semis)
5-4 Birmingham Southern
7-3 Huntingdon (second place in USA South, actually beat the conference's playoff rep)
9-3 Rowan (NJAC champion)
...and...
1-6 Alfred State

I remember discussing this during SOS discussions last year and noting that they hadn't really beaten a MONSTER opponent, but rather had just beaten mostly "pretty good" teams.  Still, except for Alfred State, they did not play a single D3 team with a losing record, and most of the teams they played either won their conference (2) or remained in the league-title discussion (3) into the season's last two weeks.  Plus, they dealt several of these teams a loss, so if you make that adjustment for this vs. the aforementioned Buff State slate, several of these teams have one extra loss because Wesley beat them while all of those teams beat Buff State.  They also played an FCS startup that went 5-6, a Menlo team that went 5-5 (to figure out where they'd stack up in Division III, that Menlo team lost 28-21 to a Pacific team that went 7-3 and played one-score ballgames against Linfield and Pacific Lutheran), and a Virginia-Lynchburg team that I can't find much on but didn't seem to be any good.

That Virginia-Lynchburg team is not great but has one of largest collections of large human beings I have seen (yes I've been on sidelines arT NFL training camps)

[Bombers798891]

Yeah, it's worth noting that Buff State went 1-8 that season. Still, what stood out to me was that of those five teams, there was only one bad loss.

Another team I considered was 2004 Brockport, who played:

#6 Rowan (10-3)
#15 St. John Fisher (10-2)
#18 Salisbury (10-1)
#20 Ithaca (9-2)
TCNJ (7-2)
Wesley (8-2)

There's only 3 NCAA teams there, but since Brockport was very good, they probably hurt their own case by knocking out potential at-large teams in Ithaca and TCNJ (kind of the opposite of what happened with Buff State, who probably helped a couple of teams win Pool C bids) But appearances by a 4-6 Buff State team and a 2-8 Frostburg also knocked them down a peg

The 2012 Buff State also had a tough one, and maybe the most head scratching season I've seen.

Played and BEAT: UWW, SJF, Ithaca, and Cortland

but somehow lost to Utica and Brockport and didn't even make the ECACs that year!!

Fisher and Whitewater went 7-3 and IC 6-4 in the regular season. Brockport and Utica also went 6-4. The names are nice, but other than Cortland, none of them were that different from each other that year

[bman]

This may not be a discussion for this board, but when I checked my phone this morning the first two stories from deadspin were about a brawl in the parking lot at the Packers/Dolphins game and a video of a Giants fan getting showered with garbage at the Eagles/Giants game.

This is one of the many reasons I prefer the feel of a D3 game to any major football event, but why on earth would someone feel it is OK to throw trash at another human being because he is wearing another teams jersey? I am honestly totally lost on this one.

Soooo, since the game was in Philly, were they actually throwing Philly fans at the Giants fan?

Wow  I guess I'm trash...who knew...

PS...brought my Kid to the Eagles Giants game, and sat next to 2 Giants fans.  Not one word was said to them the entire game...by anyone around us.
Now given it was never close, that was probably a factor as well, but I saw not one issue in the stands...
Having been at several infamous "events" in Philly sports history...the crowds at the new stadiums are less aggressive (and of course there are exceptions) than in the Vet and the Spectrum.  I think alot of the hooligans have been priced out....

[dewcrew88]

I said this last week and I repeat myself: Utica will not make the next step until they can start beating good conference teams. I was busy covering a HS game on Saturday so I didn't watch the whole game, but I saw UC had the lead early in the second half but when I looked again, it was 36-19 Salisbury.
They absolutely can beat Fisher, it's homecoming, should have a raucous crowd at Gaetano Stadium. They just need to get over the E* conference hump, with Buff St, Alfred and Wick still on the schedule.

I'm interested in what makes you feel this way?  It's as if you are implying while Utica may not be the favorite, they are close enough if they get over some mental hurdle they'll be coming up aces.  I see a team that beat winless Union by 7, that beat Frostburg by 8 points and that lost to Ithaca and Salisbury.  Really the only noteworthy showing is the game against Brockport.  Maybe it's not a mental hump to get over.  Maybe they're just an ok team.

I am guessing that he is basing his comments on the way UC looked at home against Brockport. They have some talent, and if they are well prepared and play well they can pull an upset.

As a Fisher fan I feel better about this game after seeing what IC and SU were able to do against UC. Not sure I agree that UC can beat Fisher, but I get where a UC fan has room to hope. Coach Vos said this past week that everything Fisher want to accomplish is still in front of them. If he can get the team to buy into that ans Fisher takes UC seriously on SatERday I think they will be fine.

I think if they don't make mistakes, don't turn the ball over and keep Acevedo as a major part of what they do, they could beat SJF. Just a feeling. It seems as though they are right there and then they go and lay eggs against IC AND SU.

[boobyhasgameyo]

I said this last week and I repeat myself: Utica will not make the next step until they can start beating good conference teams. I was busy covering a HS game on Saturday so I didn't watch the whole game, but I saw UC had the lead early in the second half but when I looked again, it was 36-19 Salisbury.
They absolutely can beat Fisher, it's homecoming, should have a raucous crowd at Gaetano Stadium. They just need to get over the E* conference hump, with Buff St, Alfred and Wick still on the schedule.

I'm interested in what makes you feel this way?  It's as if you are implying while Utica may not be the favorite, they are close enough if they get over some mental hurdle they'll be coming up aces.  I see a team that beat winless Union by 7, that beat Frostburg by 8 points and that lost to Ithaca and Salisbury.  Really the only noteworthy showing is the game against Brockport.  Maybe it's not a mental hump to get over.  Maybe they're just an ok team.

I am guessing that he is basing his comments on the way UC looked at home against Brockport. They have some talent, and if they are well prepared and play well they can pull an upset.

As a Fisher fan I feel better about this game after seeing what IC and SU were able to do against UC. Not sure I agree that UC can beat Fisher, but I get where a UC fan has room to hope. Coach Vos said this past week that everything Fisher want to accomplish is still in front of them. If he can get the team to buy into that ans Fisher takes UC seriously on SatERday I think they will be fine.

I think if they don't make mistakes, don't turn the ball over and keep Acevedo as a major part of what they do, they could beat SJF. Just a feeling. It seems as though they are right there and then they go and lay eggs against IC AND SU.

Fair enough.  That post actually came out sounding way harsher than I intended anyway.  I wasn't trying to be a jerk face, I was legitimately asking because I wasn't seeing something jump out at me with respect to their season so far.  But it looks like they've made some roster changes for the better and have been competitive with most everyone.  So who knows.  Maybe it is their time!  I most certainly hope not and I personally expect Fisher to win.  But I can't hate on a dude cheering on his team 

[fisheralum91]

wheels look like they are going to fall off this weekend at the Fisher - UC game as the 70+ degree temps are going to plummet and rain this wknd too.

Thats ok- thats why we tailgate under a tent!!

[Bombers798891]

Let's talk playoffs. We're midway through the season, so it's as good a time as any.

Starting with the Pool A bid. I've got to say, I think Salisbury's the inside favorite here. Ithaca's egg-laying against Buff State has me wondering if the Bombers will be able to hold it together against the Gulls, even at home, where the Bombers have dominated triple option teams in recent years. If they do indeed get by the Bombers, they have Hartwick, Brockport, Alfred, and Frostburg remaining, and I think they'd be favored in all of them.

I think Fisher runs the table from here on out as well. Getting both Buff State and Ithaca at home, I really see them finishing 9-1, and sneaking a Pool C bid, resulting in them being overlooked and winning two playoff games.

Buff State is in great position to play spoiler though. A win over Fisher pretty much locks them into a Pool A bid. I don't think they beat Fisher, but the Bengals always play up to their opponent.

Ithaca is kind of lurking. They do get Salisbury at home, but even then, they need to beat Fisher and hope Buff State loses somewhere. An 8-2 Ithaca has no shot at a Pool C bid, IMO, since Union and Cortland are both awful.

I see the E8 shaking out as follows:

Salisbury: 8-2, Pool A
Fisher: 9-1, Pool C
Buffalo State: 8-2
Ithaca: 7-3
Utica: 6-4
Alfred 5-5
Brockport: 4-6
Hartiwck: 3-7
Frostburg: 2-8