FB: Empire 8

[pg04]

Just curious about the theme about SJF not "having professional coaches".  Can someone elaborate for me?

Just curious.

All coaches must be NFL caliber or they must go. 

[Bombers798891]

Ignoring all of the "fire the Fisher coaches" blather, I'm going to throw out some E8 power rankings:

1. Ithaca: The offense had a pretty awful day, but that was one of the best defensive performances I've seen from the Bombers (considering the quality of the opponent). They are always around the bal. Huge win for the Bombers, and the conference.

2. Cortland: I'll admit it, when I saw Cortland beat Fisher, I couldn't help but start thinking way ahead to Cortaca. I've been on the Red Dragons' bandwagon for a bit, and this offense looks really, really good. Improved defensive performance as well.

3. Alfred: When the Saxons limit turnovers, they're dangerous. Alfred always seems to fly under the radar a bit at the start of the season, but they'll get their shot at IC, and the Butterfield Stadium grass next week.

4. Utica: The Pioneers put forth a dominating effort against Morrisville State (500+ yards!), and held Morrisville to just 14 points. Their game against Cortland next week will be very interesting.

5. Brockport: Gotta take quality of competition into account. Oberlin and Hartwick aren't the best wins, so I'm comfortable with them behind Utica here.

6. Buff State: Failed to close against Alfred, and these are the games that prevent the Bengals from taking that next step. They'll finally get some home games in October.

7. Morrisville State: Rough welcome into the E8 for Morrisville, who just got taken out by Utica. Can they rebound next week?

8. Hartwick: I feel like we've seen this movie from Hartwick before. They look good against dreadful OOC competition, but  then the party ends when the E8 slate starts.

9. Fisher: Defensive woes have been well- and annoyingly documented. But my question is, what's happened to these running backs who were so dominant last year?

[boobyhasgameyo]

Just curious about the theme about SJF not "having professional coaches".  Can someone elaborate for me?

Just curious.

All coaches must be NFL caliber or they must go. 

Middle hasn't concealed his disdain for the coaching staff in the past.  I personally agree with him to a degree with some of his assessments.  It really is a shame that we have such talented wide receivers that haven't been utilized to date because of poor O-line play and a QB with noticeable accuracy issues.  But at the end of the day they are all kids trying their best, so it's hard to be upset over that. 

I've also felt for years that the coaching staff hasn't maximized the potential of the rosters they've assembled and their playcalling/game management deserves every bit of scrutiny that comes their way.  But getting rid of them doesn't assure better replacements.  Maybe the devil we know is better than the one we don't.  At least we know Vos and company have proven they can put together winning teams despite seemingly getting in their own way to even greater success. 

[Bombers798891]

At least we know Vos and company have proven they can put together winning teams despite seemingly getting in their own way to even greater success.

Fisher's win totals from 2011-2014:

9, 10, 8, 10, 9

All while playing in one of the toughest conferences in D-III football. Have there been games that Fisher could/should have won? Sure, as there are with pretty much everyone outside the top 6. And I've certainly touted Fisher's accolades a bit myself. But I also have a serious question:

Do you Fisher guys honestly believe, given the state of the conference, and the generally ambitious OOC scheduling the Cardinals do, that the team should be winning 11 games and making the NCAA quarters every year? I know the last time I asked this, someone came back with a "Some of us have higher expectations than going to an ECAC game and losing to Cortland" comment, but seriously, what's the expectation here?

[sjfcards]

At least we know Vos and company have proven they can put together winning teams despite seemingly getting in their own way to even greater success.

Fisher's win totals from 2011-2014:

9, 10, 8, 10, 9

All while playing in one of the toughest conferences in D-III football. Have there been games that Fisher could/should have won? Sure, as there are with pretty much everyone outside the top 6. And I've certainly touted Fisher's accolades a bit myself. But I also have a serious question:

Do you Fisher guys honestly believe, given the state of the conference, and the generally ambitious OOC scheduling the Cardinals do, that the team should be winning 11 games and making the NCAA quarters every year? I know the last time I asked this, someone came back with a "Some of us have higher expectations than going to an ECAC game and losing to Cortland" comment, but seriously, what's the expectation here?

I don't think I would be the best person to answer this as I don't think the start for Fisher is all on the coaches. I have my frustrations with the play calling (especially on offense) but do recognize the success from previous years. Should Fisher win 11 games and go o the quarters? I don't think that is out of reach with the talent they have had over the last 10 to 12 years but maybe  a but unrealistic. What I think a reasonable expectation would be is to have won a few conference titles in that span and make the playoffs in consecutive years. It is the same issue year in and year out where they lose to teams they have more talent than, and the coaches have to shoulder some of that blame.

This year seems to be an anomaly to me, as the defense is a real weakness and Fisher has bee  very strong on that side of the ball for several years. I wouldn't fall out of my chair shocked if they still got into the mix for the AQ, but yesterday was a game they could have won, and could not get off the field.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Personally my expectation isn't in the amount of games they win or how far they advance in the postseason.  It is that the team plays to their full potential and you aren't left thinking they could have done better if the playcalling were different or if the game were managed in a different fashion.  I give full credit to the coaches for recruiting such talented players over the years to set the expectation of that potential so high.  But that's half the battle.  In my opinion the coaches have been lacking in the other half. 

[ITH radio]

A lot of IC / E8 talk this week:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2015/09/20/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

[AUPepBand]

Pep was prepared to take a loss Saterday given AU's best D-lineman was out of the game and the Bengal offense was running on all cylinders after taking a 26-14 lead. Then the band played "Crunch Time" at the end of the third quarter as it always does. To start the fourth quarter, AU had a 4th-and-11 at the Bengal 16 yard line and a scrambling Tyler Johnson, with defenders closing in along the sideline, threw it into the end zone where it was picked off. It didn't look good for AU.

With a two score lead and the ball, Buffalo State began to work the clock, advancing from its own 20 to its 45. Bengal QB Kyle Hoppy scrambled for a one-yard gain to the 45 but got his legs tangled up and was injured on the play...probably a knee. He did not return. (Pep certainly hopes it doesn't end his season...he was outstanding!) His understudy got run down and sacked for a 16-yard loss, then a bad snap led to the punter running for a 15 yard gain but short of a first down. Those three plays turned the game around.

Saxon offense responded with an 8-play 44-yard TD drive culminated with Brendan Buisch's 20-yard TD grab in the end zone. Now it's 26-21 with 9:05 to go and hope is restored to the big Family Weekend crowd.

Sans Hoppy, Buffalo State went three-and-out on its subsequent possession from the Bengal 36 yard line and punted back to AU. The AU offense went 77 yards in just six plays, including this play of the week where Casey Bright gains about 20 yards after the initial contact. Two plays later, the Saxons are in the end zone. A successful 2-point conversion put AU up by 3, 29-26.

Buffalo State's offense wasn't the same without Hoppy. Pep contends that Hoppy's injury played a pivotal role in the Saxons winning on Saturday. Pep wishes him a quick and complete recovery. He's a real competitor.

On Saxon Warriors!

[AUPepBand]

Ignoring all of the "fire the Fisher coaches" blather, I'm going to throw out some E8 power rankings:

3. Alfred: When the Saxons limit turnovers, they're dangerous. Alfred always seems to fly under the radar a bit at the start of the season, but they'll get their shot at IC, and the Butterfield Stadium grass next week.

The Saxons will need to be fitted with cleated shoes and armed with machetes to navigate through that Bomber jungle called Butter Field.

On Saxon Warriors!

[fisheralum91]

I havent seen this years Fisher team yet, and have no idea what is working or not working, but as a supporter of the team, a proud alum and donor to the athletic program I think its a bit premature to throw in the towel and think that we need a new coaching staff.
This team has not performed up to what fans would like- granted.
But a whole scale house cleaning.....
No...
Way too reactionary and extreme.

[AUPepBand]

I havent seen this years Fisher team yet, and have no idea what is working or not working, but as a supporter of the team, a proud alum and donor to the athletic program I think its a bit premature to throw in the towel and think that we need a new coaching staff.
This team has not performed up to what fans would like- granted.
But a whole scale house cleaning.....
No...
Way to reactionary and extreme.

Pep wonders whether a Fisher fan hasn't adopted the "big-time college football" or even "NFL" type mentality toward the Cardinals' D3 football program? That could perhaps stem from the Buffalo Bills presence on campus, yielding top notch facilities and "big-time" expectations. You got to win or else.

The absence of that mentality at Alfred was the primary reason that (legendary) Coach Alex Yunevich came to Alfred from Central Michigan in 1937 and stayed for 36 seasons (1937-1976). "If you lose, they don't burn you in effigy at Alfred," he once said.

The same should be true at St. John Fisher today. Good grief, Coach Vosburgh has been in Pittsford for 25 years and he hasn't had a losing season since 2001. His record speaks for itself.

[fisheralum91]

I havent seen this years Fisher team yet, and have no idea what is working or not working, but as a supporter of the team, a proud alum and donor to the athletic program I think its a bit premature to throw in the towel and think that we need a new coaching staff.
This team has not performed up to what fans would like- granted.
But a whole scale house cleaning.....
No...
Way to reactionary and extreme.

Pep wonders whether a Fisher fan hasn't adopted the "big-time college football" or even "NFL" type mentality toward the Cardinals' D3 football program? That could perhaps stem from the Buffalo Bills presence on campus, yielding top notch facilities and "big-time" expectations. You got to win or else.

The absence of that mentality at Alfred was the primary reason that (legendary) Coach Alex Yunevich came to Alfred from Central Michigan in 1937 and stayed for 36 seasons (1937-1976). "If you lose, they don't burn you in effigy at Alfred," he once said.

The same should be true at St. John Fisher today. Good grief, Coach Vosburgh has been in Pittsford for 25 years and he hasn't had a losing season since 2001. His record speaks for itself.

Well said!

[Jonny Utah]

I havent seen this years Fisher team yet, and have no idea what is working or not working, but as a supporter of the team, a proud alum and donor to the athletic program I think its a bit premature to throw in the towel and think that we need a new coaching staff.
This team has not performed up to what fans would like- granted.
But a whole scale house cleaning.....
No...
Way to reactionary and extreme.

Pep wonders whether a Fisher fan hasn't adopted the "big-time college football" or even "NFL" type mentality toward the Cardinals' D3 football program? That could perhaps stem from the Buffalo Bills presence on campus, yielding top notch facilities and "big-time" expectations. You got to win or else.

The absence of that mentality at Alfred was the primary reason that (legendary) Coach Alex Yunevich came to Alfred from Central Michigan in 1937 and stayed for 36 seasons (1937-1976). "If you lose, they don't burn you in effigy at Alfred," he once said.

The same should be true at St. John Fisher today. Good grief, Coach Vosburgh has been in Pittsford for 25 years and he hasn't had a losing season since 2001. His record speaks for itself.

Well said!

I say fire him.

As a HS coach, some of our opponents have coaching staffs that simply don't know what they are doing.  We like to see those guys stay and are upset when they are pushed out/retire.  When opposing teams have good coaching staffs that get pushed/out or retire, we are happy because we know that sometimes coaches leave when the talent drains out.

[pg04]

I havent seen this years Fisher team yet, and have no idea what is working or not working, but as a supporter of the team, a proud alum and donor to the athletic program I think its a bit premature to throw in the towel and think that we need a new coaching staff.
This team has not performed up to what fans would like- granted.
But a whole scale house cleaning.....
No...
Way too reactionary and extreme.

At the end of the game, when I watched and Fisher still had a good chance to come back, they had two fumbles. At some point the players have culpability for their mistakes too. I think 2 games is way too early to throw the panic button.

...I'm also afraid they are going to put it together just in time for the Courage bowl this week. 

[AUPepBand]

I havent seen this years Fisher team yet, and have no idea what is working or not working, but as a supporter of the team, a proud alum and donor to the athletic program I think its a bit premature to throw in the towel and think that we need a new coaching staff.
This team has not performed up to what fans would like- granted.
But a whole scale house cleaning.....
No...
Way too reactionary and extreme.

At the end of the game, when I watched and Fisher still had a good chance to come back, they had two fumbles. At some point the players have culpability for their mistakes too. I think 2 games is way too early to throw the panic button.

...I'm also afraid they are going to put it together just in time for the Courage bowl this week. 

Pg04, you always make me laugh. +K