FB: Empire 8

[Upstate]

What a crazy ( but great ) weekend of football!
What did Keyes do/say/adjust to stop Brockport in the second half?
I did notice that they stacked the box a few times- but was there more to it?
I am nervous about Alumni weekend with Buff St.
I have no idea what they have on the table.
My 20year reunion was a bust as we got blasted by Hobart.
Lets hope that the 25th is not a similar circumstance!

That said- if we get thru this week unscathed, there is light at the end of the tunnel.....i think

Going into the season I really thought the run of 4 straight SUNY schools would dictate the season. I thought they'd go 3-1 or 2-2 depending on this weeks game.

The Bengals have some athletes, some really good athletes.

Yes they lost 34-10 to AU but they couldn't pass the ball downfield in those conditions at all (AU couldn't either really, their damage came on short crosses and screens).

Much like Fisher's offense, Buff State's offense is dependent on getting the ball downfield on those zone read play action passes.

Also does anyone know who the starter is for Buff St is at QB this week?

I saw Hoppy was starting week 1 but Ertle has been starting the past two weeks.

[fisheralum91]

If it all plays out right,
Im taking the entire FA91 family to the Fisher/UC game here in Utica- we could witness 2 undefeated E8 teams battling for a shot at the conference championship!

At the beginning of the season I would have never thought that

[jknezek]

Sort of off topic but still about the top 25 - Johns Hopkins.  I feel like that team is so consistently overrated.  Largely because they play in a weak conference and never lose in it.  But once they are in the playoffs you can bet the house they aren't making it out of the second round of the playoffs, that's if they even manage to escape the 1st.  They're currently ranked 9th.  Let's watch in anticipation to see what becomes of them this year.  I'm going to go ahead and guess more of the same. 

Also, I was wondering if Wheaton would drop and they did.  I watched them play Elmhurst yesterday since Elmhurst and Fisher had a common opponent in Olivet.  Olivet beat Elmhurst 27-13.  Wheaton beat them 10-6 in a game that was tight throughout.  Comparing scores is always kind of a pointless exercise (look at ONU vs Utica, Heidelberg vs Cortland, Heidelberg vs ONU and then Cortland vs Utica as a prime example of why)...but let's just say I was expecting more out of Wheaton than that.  I think the pollsters got that one right.

Playing a little devil's advocate here. Johns Hopkins has lost to Wesley, Hobart (Who beat Ithaca that same year), Wesley, Mount Union, and St. John Fisher, respectively over the last five year's. Each of those teams Hopkins loss to were at least Top 8 teams in the country. Having them rank around 9-11 range is adequate for them. One think, I would like to see Johns Hopkins do is schedule tougher out of conference games (but I believe that is a conference move). I didn't like his responses to Pat's questions earlier in the year, but I believe they have a good program and can easily compete in any of the "East Region" conferences and win.

JHU has one non-conf game. This year they used it on a W&L team coming off a 10-0 season and ranked in the top 25. W&L has under performed so far this season for sure, but it's hard to fault JHU's one OOC game choice. I realize some of this is luck, but JHU will travel to W&L next year, then take on R-MC in a home and home the following 2 years. R-MC appears to be on an upswing, but who knows where they will be in 2 years. And that's part of the problem with OOC scheduling, especially when you only have 1 game to use.

Further, JHU is about the southern most team in their conference. If they want to recruit the VA area, they need to play a game out that way. Using their OOC in that direction is the only option, and there aren't any elite level ODAC/USASAC schools on a consistent basis. For example, scheduling H-SC, which JHU has done in the past, seems like a good idea, but if you look at them this year it would have been a very unlucky choice.

[Upstate]

When you IC guys were talking about how bad the IC offense was I figured it was just a concern and it wasn't as bad as you guys were making it out to be...

Then I did some digging...

So far this year IC has had the ball on offense for  a total of 1:23:16, they've scored 23 points (6 coming on a defensive TD) and have accumulated 525 yards of offense...

SJF had the ball for 20:43 on Saturday and scored 42 points and 501 yards of offense...

I really feel bad for IC's defense, they've only allowed 6 TDs and 912 yards all year and are on the field for over 32 minutes a game...

They have to find some offense somewhere, you can't let Welch go out like this...

[Bartman]

Sort of off topic but still about the top 25 - Johns Hopkins.  I feel like that team is so consistently overrated.  Largely because they play in a weak conference and never lose in it.  But once they are in the playoffs you can bet the house they aren't making it out of the second round of the playoffs, that's if they even manage to escape the 1st.  They're currently ranked 9th.  Let's watch in anticipation to see what becomes of them this year.  I'm going to go ahead and guess more of the same. 

Also, I was wondering if Wheaton would drop and they did.  I watched them play Elmhurst yesterday since Elmhurst and Fisher had a common opponent in Olivet.  Olivet beat Elmhurst 27-13.  Wheaton beat them 10-6 in a game that was tight throughout.  Comparing scores is always kind of a pointless exercise (look at ONU vs Utica, Heidelberg vs Cortland, Heidelberg vs ONU and then Cortland vs Utica as a prime example of why)...but let's just say I was expecting more out of Wheaton than that.  I think the pollsters got that one right.

Playing a little devil's advocate here. Johns Hopkins has lost to Wesley, Hobart (Who beat Ithaca that same year), Wesley, Mount Union, and St. John Fisher, respectively over the last five year's. Each of those teams Hopkins loss to were at least Top 8 teams in the country. Having them rank around 9-11 range is adequate for them. One think, I would like to see Johns Hopkins do is schedule tougher out of conference games (but I believe that is a conference move). I didn't like his responses to Pat's questions earlier in the year, but I believe they have a good program and can easily compete in any of the "East Region" conferences and win.

JHU has one non-conf game. This year they used it on a W&L team coming off a 10-0 season and ranked in the top 25. W&L has under performed so far this season for sure, but it's hard to fault JHU's one OOC game choice. I realize some of this is luck, but JHU will travel to W&L next year, then take on R-MC in a home and home the following 2 years. R-MC appears to be on an upswing, but who knows where they will be in 2 years. And that's part of the problem with OOC scheduling, especially when you only have 1 game to use.

Further, JHU is about the southern most team in their conference. If they want to recruit the VA area, they need to play a game out that way. Using their OOC in that direction is the only option, and there aren't any elite level ODAC/USASAC schools on a consistent basis. For example, scheduling H-SC, which JHU has done in the past, seems like a good idea, but if you look at them this year it would have been a very unlucky choice.

Hopkins has a great program, but it does seem that get a little extra love from the pollsters as they appear to be the solid choice for the "best of the rest". I think this is due to their consistency in conference(they already have the 2 big wins against Moravian and Muhlenberg although both within a TD) and good showings , although losses, against Wesley, Fisher and Hobart the last few NCAA playoffs. It would be interesting to see how Hopkins would do in the E8, but their consistency in conference and respectability in the playoffs probably warrants the "best of the rest"(at least this season with Wesley down).

[D3MAFAN]

Sort of off topic but still about the top 25 - Johns Hopkins.  I feel like that team is so consistently overrated.  Largely because they play in a weak conference and never lose in it.  But once they are in the playoffs you can bet the house they aren't making it out of the second round of the playoffs, that's if they even manage to escape the 1st.  They're currently ranked 9th.  Let's watch in anticipation to see what becomes of them this year.  I'm going to go ahead and guess more of the same. 

Also, I was wondering if Wheaton would drop and they did.  I watched them play Elmhurst yesterday since Elmhurst and Fisher had a common opponent in Olivet.  Olivet beat Elmhurst 27-13.  Wheaton beat them 10-6 in a game that was tight throughout.  Comparing scores is always kind of a pointless exercise (look at ONU vs Utica, Heidelberg vs Cortland, Heidelberg vs ONU and then Cortland vs Utica as a prime example of why)...but let's just say I was expecting more out of Wheaton than that.  I think the pollsters got that one right.

Playing a little devil's advocate here. Johns Hopkins has lost to Wesley, Hobart (Who beat Ithaca that same year), Wesley, Mount Union, and St. John Fisher, respectively over the last five year's. Each of those teams Hopkins loss to were at least Top 8 teams in the country. Having them rank around 9-11 range is adequate for them. One think, I would like to see Johns Hopkins do is schedule tougher out of conference games (but I believe that is a conference move). I didn't like his responses to Pat's questions earlier in the year, but I believe they have a good program and can easily compete in any of the "East Region" conferences and win.

JHU has one non-conf game. This year they used it on a W&L team coming off a 10-0 season and ranked in the top 25. W&L has under performed so far this season for sure, but it's hard to fault JHU's one OOC game choice. I realize some of this is luck, but JHU will travel to W&L next year, then take on R-MC in a home and home the following 2 years. R-MC appears to be on an upswing, but who knows where they will be in 2 years. And that's part of the problem with OOC scheduling, especially when you only have 1 game to use.

Further, JHU is about the southern most team in their conference. If they want to recruit the VA area, they need to play a game out that way. Using their OOC in that direction is the only option, and there aren't any elite level ODAC/USASAC schools on a consistent basis. For example, scheduling H-SC, which JHU has done in the past, seems like a good idea, but if you look at them this year it would have been a very unlucky choice.

We all know Johns Hopkins recruits nationally, they choose to schedule those select institutions. They have about 5 guys from VA, if that. As the coach mentioned, Johns Hopkins priority is to win its conference and as a reward, play in the national playoff. That first game is nothing but a glorified pre-season game for them. IMHO, I do think its unfortunate for them not to look for a top notch game against "better opponents", but if they were to lose that OOC game and then lose a conference game, its a long shot for a CC team to join as an at-large (except for the anomaly a few years ago with Muhlenberg).

[jknezek]

Sort of off topic but still about the top 25 - Johns Hopkins.  I feel like that team is so consistently overrated.  Largely because they play in a weak conference and never lose in it.  But once they are in the playoffs you can bet the house they aren't making it out of the second round of the playoffs, that's if they even manage to escape the 1st.  They're currently ranked 9th.  Let's watch in anticipation to see what becomes of them this year.  I'm going to go ahead and guess more of the same. 

Also, I was wondering if Wheaton would drop and they did.  I watched them play Elmhurst yesterday since Elmhurst and Fisher had a common opponent in Olivet.  Olivet beat Elmhurst 27-13.  Wheaton beat them 10-6 in a game that was tight throughout.  Comparing scores is always kind of a pointless exercise (look at ONU vs Utica, Heidelberg vs Cortland, Heidelberg vs ONU and then Cortland vs Utica as a prime example of why)...but let's just say I was expecting more out of Wheaton than that.  I think the pollsters got that one right.

Playing a little devil's advocate here. Johns Hopkins has lost to Wesley, Hobart (Who beat Ithaca that same year), Wesley, Mount Union, and St. John Fisher, respectively over the last five year's. Each of those teams Hopkins loss to were at least Top 8 teams in the country. Having them rank around 9-11 range is adequate for them. One think, I would like to see Johns Hopkins do is schedule tougher out of conference games (but I believe that is a conference move). I didn't like his responses to Pat's questions earlier in the year, but I believe they have a good program and can easily compete in any of the "East Region" conferences and win.

JHU has one non-conf game. This year they used it on a W&L team coming off a 10-0 season and ranked in the top 25. W&L has under performed so far this season for sure, but it's hard to fault JHU's one OOC game choice. I realize some of this is luck, but JHU will travel to W&L next year, then take on R-MC in a home and home the following 2 years. R-MC appears to be on an upswing, but who knows where they will be in 2 years. And that's part of the problem with OOC scheduling, especially when you only have 1 game to use.

Further, JHU is about the southern most team in their conference. If they want to recruit the VA area, they need to play a game out that way. Using their OOC in that direction is the only option, and there aren't any elite level ODAC/USASAC schools on a consistent basis. For example, scheduling H-SC, which JHU has done in the past, seems like a good idea, but if you look at them this year it would have been a very unlucky choice.

We all know Johns Hopkins recruits nationally, they choose to schedule those select institutions. They have about 5 guys from VA, if that. As the coach mentioned, Johns Hopkins priority is to win its conference and as a reward, play in the national playoff. That first game is nothing but a glorified pre-season game for them. IMHO, I do think its unfortunate for them not to look for a top notch game against "better opponents", but if they were to lose that OOC game and then lose a conference game, its a long shot for a CC team to join as an at-large (except for the anomaly a few years ago with Muhlenberg).

I can't imagine any coach would say anything else. Isn't it always the priority to win the conference? And OOC games are essentially non-conf. If you only have one, it is doubly so. That's the huge benefit of the AQ. I'm not sure I see your point.

[AUKaz00]

When you IC guys were talking about how bad the IC offense was I figured it was just a concern and it wasn't as bad as you guys were making it out to be...

Then I did some digging...

So far this year IC has had the ball on offense for  a total of 1:23:16, they've scored 23 points (6 coming on a defensive TD) and have accumulated 525 yards of offense...

SJF had the ball for 20:43 on Saturday and scored 42 points and 501 yards of offense...

I really feel bad for IC's defense, they've only allowed 6 TDs and 912 yards all year and are on the field for over 32 minutes a game...

They have to find some offense somewhere, you can't let Welch go out like this...

Looking at the program on saterday, Pep and I noticed that the IC defensive line had lots of seniority while the O-line was full of underclassmen.  More than anything, I think that explains the disparity between Ithaca's defensive excellence and offensive woes.  Also, I wish I could find video of the Bomber TD, but the Alfred DB was set up in the end zone for the INT only to be shoved from behind by Zazzara for the easy score.  I know these things always come off as sour grapes, but I had lunch with an A-State student yesterday who was sitting on the grassy hill by that end zone and he relentlessly badgered me about it because he thought it was funny how the TD was scored.  Anyway, in Ecclesiastical fashion, it's all meaningless anyway, but was frustrating none-the-less.

[Upstate]

I don't see the huge issue with Hopkins being ranked where they are.

They have been extremely consistent during the regular season and have risen through the rankings through attrition.

They win and keep rising. It's not their fault that other teams lose.

Fisher did play the spoiler in 2011 but Fisher played spoiler against DVC in the 2nd round too. We talked earlier on just how good that 2011 team was (besides their QB of course).

Sure they got rolled by UMU in the 2nd round in 2012, a lot of teams go in there and get squashed.

They took a Wesley team to the brink in 2013 (29-24), a Wesley team that would hang 59 points up on UMU.

They lost to a 12-0 Hobart team by a FG (24-21) in 2014.

Yes they did get lucky with the Western New England draw in 2015 but they lost to Wesley by 5 the following week (42-37).

They're a top 15 program, no issues with them.

[sjfcards]

What a crazy ( but great ) weekend of football!
What did Keyes do/say/adjust to stop Brockport in the second half?
I did notice that they stacked the box a few times- but was there more to it?
I am nervous about Alumni weekend with Buff St.
I have no idea what they have on the table.
My 20year reunion was a bust as we got blasted by Hobart.
Lets hope that the 25th is not a similar circumstance!

That said- if we get thru this week unscathed, there is light at the end of the tunnel.....i think

Going into the season I really thought the run of 4 straight SUNY schools would dictate the season. I thought they'd go 3-1 or 2-2 depending on this weeks game.

The Bengals have some athletes, some really good athletes.

Yes they lost 34-10 to AU but they couldn't pass the ball downfield in those conditions at all (AU couldn't either really, their damage came on short crosses and screens).

Much like Fisher's offense, Buff State's offense is dependent on getting the ball downfield on those zone read play action passes.

Also does anyone know who the starter is for Buff St is at QB this week?

I saw Hoppy was starting week 1 but Ertle has been starting the past two weeks.

Looking at the schedule for Fisher I would agree about the 4 straight SUNY schools, but feel you have to include Utica in that mix. If Fisher wins this weekend and beats (0-3) Morrisville, they essentially have two major games left in Utica and AU (not taking anything away from Heartsick and IC. I've been around the E8 long enough to know better). If Fisher beats Utica the Alfred game could become academic if both are undefeated, as the loser likely gets a pool C bid. So that UC game kind of becomes à playoff game if all goes to plan.

[Upstate]

Seeing Fisher and AU at 9-0 going into the last week of the year would be pretty amazing. I don't see it but it would be pretty nice for both clubs and the E8.

I'm not really looking past Utica because they have been giving Fisher some scares lately. Just tried to break the season down into halves. I thought the first half would be a lot tougher than the 2nd going into this year.

With Utica it seems that they go into Growny and have played well for the past few years.

32-27 (2015)
28-27 (2013)

However on the road Fisher really seems to take it to Utica.

42-7 (2014)
55-20 (2012)

Thankfully we are at Utica this year!

[fisheralum91]

I love it when the alma mater comes to Utica!

[Bombers798891]

E8 thoughts:

There seems to be a solid chance that Utica will be 6-0 and facing 6-0 St. John Fisher at home for a chance to be the frontrunner in the E8. I'll just leave that there.

Alfred, after a 1-year blip, seems to be the usual sturdy/overlooked 8-win team they always are. They just churn out these seasons one after another.

Cortland's got some serious, serious problems. Their backup QBs have thrown 2 TDs/8 INTs. But they clearly have no idea who the #1 guy is. Walker got most of the snaps against Utica, though for some reason Schnieder came in three separate times, all on 3rd down, for exactly one play. The final drive saw Ryan VanGalen in at QB. This might turn out to be a lost season for the Red Dragons.

Brockport and Hartwick seem to be the same team, while Morrisville and Ithaca have taken steps backwards.

As usual, I have no idea what to make of Buffalo State.

[fisheralum91]

I think that Buff state is the Jekyll and Hyde the same as they have been for some time.
One week they beat UWW, the next they lose a head scratcher.

Thats what has my nose twitching about alumni weekend at Fisher.
This as easily be a rout BOTH WAYS!

[AUPepBand]

E8 thoughts:

There seems to be a solid chance that Utica will be 6-0 and facing 6-0 St. John Fisher at home for a chance to be the frontrunner in the E8. I'll just leave that there.

Alfred, after a 1-year blip, seems to be the usual sturdy/overlooked 8-win team they always are. They just churn out these seasons one after another.

Cortland's got some serious, serious problems. Their backup QBs have thrown 2 TDs/8 INTs. But they clearly have no idea who the #1 guy is. Walker got most of the snaps against Utica, though for some reason Schnieder came in three separate times, all on 3rd down, for exactly one play. The final drive saw Ryan VanGalen in at QB. This might turn out to be a lost season for the Red Dragons.

Brockport and Hartwick seem to be the same team, while Morrisville and Ithaca have taken steps backwards.

As usual, I have no idea what to make of Buffalo State.

With the Bengals, any given Saterday....they looked lifeless against AU. Weather wise, the first half was nasty but the second half turned out to be okay. If they can get their defense off the field and can get the ball in his hands, they have a real weapon in Dale Stewart.

Perhaps the presence of the AU Pep Band behind the Buff State bench had something to do with their lack of life...or the AU offense hogging the ball most of the afternoon. They're not to be looked past. They will put up a fight. As for Hoppy, he played the entire game against Otterbein but didn't dress for AU. Pep suspects he could return but not clear on his injury.

Interesting note: It was Alfred's Homecoming Weekend when AU hosted Morrisville S tate (Pep's alma mater) last year in their first-ever meeting. This Saterday is Homecoming at Mo'ville....so Pep will be there but cheering for the Saxons.