FB: Empire 8

[JQV]

I gotta say if either of those teams has a shot at the upset of SC, it is Hartwick.  At least they have the QB and RB to potentially put up some numbers.  Maybe they can go score for score with the Pride and have the ball last?

I don't think either Hartwick or Norwich has the horses to upset Springfield. It would have to be a once in a lifetime day for either team. I thought Hartwick would be better this year and am a little surprised they've struggled so much with two great invidual players like Jason Boltus and Lindy Crea. But, their defense, like last year, hasn't been good. In theory Jose, sure, Hartwick and Springfield could go score-for-score. But, I think Springfield's defense will show up and hold Hartwick to a modest total. Hartwick won't be able to stop Springfield's ground game and I think Sharpe and/or Jackson will have a big game.

I don't think Norwich at this stage of the season can beat Springfield either. The Pride's running game is too good and Norwich doesn't have the playmakers on offense that can beat the Springfield "d." If this was the Norwich team of a few years ago with Meehan, Garcon and Sutton-El, then it'd be a different story. Crummy conditions in Northfield may slow down the Pride offense, but thats it.

And with the rest of the conference, the IC-Alfred and Alfred-SJF games are basically almost playoff games. In essence, they are playoff games for Alfred since a loss in either knocks them squarely out of the playoffs. If Ithaca and/or St. John Fisher lose, that will knock them out of Pool A contention and the team that wins of that group, will have the upper hand in Pool C with Springfield possibly getting the AQ. If anything, it will be a very exciting final two weeks.

I'll be listening to the Ithaca-Alfred game as I go about unpacking on Saturday. I leave for Virginia first thing in the morning. It'll be a brisk nine-hour drive to southwestern Virginia. Hope everyone has a good next few days. I will miss the upstate New York snow this weekend, but I'm sure it snows in Virginia.

John-- I agree that neither is going to upset SC.  The person that first posted the possibility of SC stumbling was going on about Norwich. My point was the only possible scenario for SC to lose again involves Hartwick's offense filling up the stat sheet.

It would be a long shot for Hartwick to go score for score with SC...Last year SC put up 59 on them and they have only gotten better this year.

Also, I find it interesting that people rag on SC's "D" so much (granted it has not been that good save for keeping garret lynch to 60 yards) but does that mean that SJF has a good defense? Heck they gave up 55 to SC. And who else on their schedule is really that good besides IC?  I think the two best teams in the E8 this year have to be SC and IC. 

I know comparing scores is asking for trouble but SC and IC held brockport to 6 and 3 respectively while SJF gave up 20.  SJF out of conference games consist of Kings who is a pedestrian 5-3, lowly Mt. Ida, a halfway decent Rochester team who is 6-2 but still has to play Hobart and RPI. 

I think IC has a much better defense than SJF but I do think SJF has a much better offense than IC.  Call me crazy for rambling on but I think where I am headed with this is that SC is not the only one loss team around with a lousy defense.  I can't see how SJF will make the playoffs with that kind of out of conference schedule if and only if IC can beat Alfred and Cstate..

what was my point again?

I think everyone rags on SC's defense because, historically, they don't stop anyone.  I am basing that solely on the legendary score-for-score backyard football type battles SC and IC have had over the last 8-10 years.  It also has been their liability come playoff time in the past.

IC's defense has played better than Fisher's.  But, though Fisher's out of conference schedule is less than stellar, it works out to be much better because those teams have winning records.  The quality of the out-of-conference teams IC and Fisher played are about equal (maybe IC's is a tick better but not much) but IC's out of conference teams play in the NJAC (Buff State/Cortland) or don't count because they are out of region (Huntingdon).  Therefore, under the NCAA formula, Fisher's schedule is better than IC's.

[fan of d3]

Point of interest...after SC's loss to IC Williams college, a NESCAC school jumped over them in the New England D3 football rankings per the coaches....Anyone find this odd?

[JQV]

Point of interest...after SC's loss to IC Williams college, a NESCAC school jumped over them in the New England D3 football rankings per the coaches....Anyone find this odd?

Didn't Williams end Trinity's streak earlier this fall?  The coaches are probably pretty high on them for that.

[boobyhasgameyo]

It would be a long shot for Hartwick to go score for score with SC...Last year SC put up 59 on them and they have only gotten better this year.

Also, I find it interesting that people rag on SC's "D" so much (granted it has not been that good save for keeping garret lynch to 60 yards) but does that mean that SJF has a good defense? Heck they gave up 55 to SC. And who else on their schedule is really that good besides IC?  I think the two best teams in the E8 this year have to be SC and IC. 

I know comparing scores is asking for trouble but SC and IC held brockport to 6 and 3 respectively while SJF gave up 20.  SJF out of conference games consist of Kings who is a pedestrian 5-3, lowly Mt. Ida, a halfway decent Rochester team who is 6-2 but still has to play Hobart and RPI. 

I think IC has a much better defense than SJF but I do think SJF has a much better offense than IC.  Call me crazy for rambling on but I think where I am headed with this is that SC is not the only one loss team around with a lousy defense.  I can't see how SJF will make the playoffs with that kind of out of conference schedule if and only if IC can beat Alfred and Cstate..

what was my point again?

i'm sorry are you saying that Fisher's defense is as bad as Springfield's?  Outside of Springfield in which Fisher was missing 4 defensive starters (that means about 37% of the starting defense for all of you non math majors) and Brockport which just came back at the very end to make the score what it was, you should really look at how many points Fisher opponents post throughout their entire season and what they put up when they play Fisher.

"Heck they gave up 55 to SC", but heck they've only given up 56 points the other 8 games combined.     

[theoriginalupstate]

"Heck they gave up 55 to SC", but heck they've only given up 56 points the other 8 games combined.     

How can you say the SJF Defense is not that good? Did we forget the 10 points vielded to IC and 54 yards in the 2nd half....

They had one bad defensive game playing with out 4 defensive starters vs a gimmick offense....

[fan of d3]

Wait let me get this straight....SJF has one bad day vs a gimmick offense so that doesnt count.  But SC has a bad day on a sloppy field against IC and that makes SC not as good as they were hyped.  hmmmm, just tryin to play devil's advocate

[boobyhasgameyo]

Also calling King's college "pedestrian" is a bit much, being 5-2 in the MAC and all, that's not very pedestrian.

"Halfway decent Rochester"? The same kind of halfway decent Union team Springfield played this year?  I would say those teams are about even, so don't hang your hat on the fact that you beat Union and ask people to respect your out of conference schedule when they are about the same as Rochester.

"Lowly" Mt. Ida is better than the Husson team you guys played.  So don't hate on our OOC schedule too much there chief

[boobyhasgameyo]

P.S. in this bye week for Fisher, I will most likely be attending the U of R vs. RPI game.  Hopefully it will be a good one. 

[John McGraw]

i'm sorry are you saying that Fisher's defense is as bad as Springfield's?  Outside of Springfield in which Fisher was missing 4 defensive starters (that means about 37% of the starting defense for all of you non math majors) and Brockport which just came back at the very end to make the score what it was, you should really look at how many points Fisher opponents post throughout their entire season and what they put up when they play Fisher.

"Heck they gave up 55 to SC", but heck they've only given up 56 points the other 8 games combined.     

These are issues you have to deal with during the playoffs too. Everyone's had players hurt. Ithaca fans didn't make a big issue out of not having Tom Bluemhauer or one of the previously injured secondary players on the field when Fisher ripped them for 34 unanswered second half points. Last year, Ithaca spent most of the season with a make-shift defense because of injuries and still made the playoffs before a loss at Union.

Bottom line, the team on the field still has to get it done, injuries or not. That day, Springfield was the better team. Fisher couldn't stop Sharpe nor the Springfield offense and ended up allowing 55 points and only stopped SC once the entire day. Springfield's defense that day was better. The Pride stepped up and made big plays when they had to, forcing several fumbles late and coming up with key stops.

What happens in a hypothedical world if Fisher plays Augustana in the playoffs? Obviously this wouldn't happen but I'm just using a team that uses a similar type of offense. You can't ask Auggie not to run the option because it's a "gimmick offense." Ithaca ran a type of option attack during the national championship years. Are you going to say that this type of offense can't win big games?

[fan of d3]

Don't take comments so personally booby....Just tryin to get a rise out of people...

From your last post.  I never asked anyone to respect SC's out of conference schedule anywhere...

Maybe the term lowly was used too loosely, how about "up and coming" I realize they beat Husson but Husson has beat the bottom feeders of the E8 and also just beat 1AA La Salle college.  I do not see Mt Ida doing that..

Easy on the Karma huh, why is everyone around here so sensitive.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Also, I didn't make the gimmick comment and I don't think I said Fisher was the better team.  I just said I don't think the two defenses compare

[fan of d3]

agree to disagree

[superman57]

Wow can't we all just get along...  I think the game that we all need to be watching this weekend is Union-Hobart if Union wins Union wins the conference if Hobart wins they win the conference or at least that's what the local paper is saying being that I live 5 minutes from Union.  We all need to cheer for a Hobart win so that Union has two losses

[fan of d3]

Why do we want Hobart to win??

[superman57]

Because if Hobart wins then Union has 2 losses going into the Shoe game and that mean 3 1 loss teams from the e8 have a good chance to all make the NCAA's