FB: Empire 8

[realistic]

Can I say taking LT 4th in my draft was the steal of the year he has single handily won a lot of the games for me


Cortland-yes you got screwed but it's not hobart's fault it's St. Joes, BLAME St. Joes NOT HOBART


and no Springfield does not put 30 up on Fisher WHEN they play again

Saint John's.....Saint John's.  Yes, their loss to Bethel is what really created the mess in which Cortland stays home.  It really is too bad for Cortland, but they were on the other side last year and Ithaca has been on both sides too.  It will never be a perfect system, but it is SO much better than it was even a few years ago.

Not to pour any salt on the wound but Ithaca falls out of the top 25....

Didnt someone make a post saying they had been in there for x amount of years??

No title, no playoffs, 2 consecutive losses, no jug, falls out of top 25...

Tough two weeks and the E8 feels for you Ithaca..come back strong next year like always.

yeah - I posted this last week.  Time to start a new streak in the fall...
Longest current D3football.com poll streaks
1. Linfield 50 weeks
Mary Hardin-Baylor 50
Mount Union 50
4. Rowan 35
5. Wisconsin-Whitewater 33
6. ITHACA 27

I think as a general rule I would agree with the fact that the midwest schools are getting better players but, I think you are missing at least one factor.  While I am not going to argue that NY is a high school football hot bed, I don't think it is that much worse than Minnesota or Wisconsin.  I think the difference is, there are more scholarship programs that recruit NY.

Realistic can correct me but, I understand the options for kids in Minn/Wisconsin/Ohio to be either OSU/UMinn/Wisconsin or Mount Union/St Johns/UW-Insert small town here.  In NY they can slip beyond Syracuse but still fall to the 1-aa and D2 schools lurking with offers.

Minnesota and Wisconsin are actually vastly different.  Minnesota has a large pool of D-II scholarship schools that the MIAC and other compete with for the best players.  Wisconsin has 2 options, bascially, good enough to play for the Badgers and D-III thats why you see so much parity in the WIAC and such HUGE players.  The kids in Minnesota get recruited all over the mid-west to D-II schools, some choose to go D-III and some don't.  That being said, a lot of guys don't like the D-II atmosphere and transfer after a year.  St. John's has made a killing off of this, especially in recent years.

[John McGraw]

I don't know, given the quality of SC, SJF, and AU this fall, I think our schedule was every bit as hard as in the past.  When it all started I figured Brockport wouldn't be as bad as they turned out to be.  Also, Buff State basically = St. Lawrence from the Independent days.  Utica is about the same or, if you want to go back to the pre-Utica days, Utica = SJF.

I disagree about Mansfield.  Playing a non-DIII team really doesn't help you at all because the game basically doesn't count.  (See Rowan).  The same argument goes for re-adding AIC.

In the end, this team finished about where they should have. 

Looking at the big picture:

-We had to replace one of the best (maybe THE best) QB in school history.

-We only had one receiver with any serious experience to help out a rookie QB.

-Rookie QB also had to get used to a rookie OC.

-We had two backs that never were quite as good as they were two years ago.  Maybe this is how they were the whole time and two years ago just gave us unreasonable expectations.

-We had a defense attempting to bounce back from one of the worst defense seasons in school history.

-The same defense that was also trying to learn a totally new scheme.

Sure, I would have liked to have reloaded a little better but, considering where the program was after the dismantling Union gave us last winter, I think Welch & Co. did a decent job guiding this team through a brutal schedule.  At worst, they did at least a good enough job to withold judgment for 12 months.

This was kind of the sandwich year between Felicetti/Colon/Espo/Donovan/Baez and Juvan/Kulp/Kiah/Seamus-Hogan/etc.  We'll see what happens now.

I completely agree with this. Really, I looked at this year as kind of an in-between year. Not necessarily because Ithaca didn't have the talent, but more so because of the change in regime at quarterback. Ithaca went 7-3 during Felicetti's freshmen season and lost a very close Cortaca Jug game to a senior-laden Cortland team that went 8-2 and probably should have made the playoffs.

Juvan was Felicetti's back-up last year and knew the offense but there's a difference between backing up one of the better quarterbacks in school history and going out as the starter and running the offense yourself. Plus, there was a new offensive coordinator this year.

Defensively, the defense is still trying to find a dominating veteran presence. Right now, the most experience lies in the secondary. The starting linebackers were all new after the graduation of Colon-Medici-Ross who played like gangbusters in the middle. It's hard when you replace three guys that were making most of the plays as seniors.

The schedule I have no problem with. The Empire 8 proved to be a tough challenge this year. Out of conference, Buffalo State has been struggling since Jerry Boyes went into the front office but Ithaca's played them ever since I can remember. Brockport had a down year. The Golden Eagles since the late 90s have been one of the better teams on Ithaca's schedule. I liked the addition of Huntingdon. Someone Ithaca had never played before, a team from a different part of the country and a team that had pretty high expectations coming into the season.

I can't see Ithaca adding Mansfield again. Obviously a loss to a D-II team wouldn't hurt in terms of the playoff picture, but it wouldn't help either. I don't like the rumors that Brockport is being dropped, but if Kings is seriously considering moving to the E8 (need new name w/Stevens joining full-time), then I'm all for having them on the schedule. Kings isn't that far away and Coach Manello has had some good teams that can run the ball well. His best team by far was the 2002 team with Steve Wilson that ate Mike Warker for breakfast to win the MAC title.

Then the question is, who do you put in the Huntingdon slot? Personally, I'd like Ithaca to add someone from the Liberty League or the MAC. Hobart was always a fun game and its a short drive to Geneva. Wilkes played Ithaca back when I was in school and I thought that was a good match-up. Heck, maybe even a New Jersey team every once in a while.

All-in-all, I'm still impressed with what this group of seniors accomplished. I'll never forget Donovan running wild all over Cortland in 2004. His 70-yard run or so breaking multiple tackles was probably the highlight of the game. And the good news, there's lots of players coming back for next year. Juvan will be a year older and wiser and maybe Grastorf will step up and challenge him.

[realistic]

I don't know, given the quality of SC, SJF, and AU this fall, I think our schedule was every bit as hard as in the past.  When it all started I figured Brockport wouldn't be as bad as they turned out to be.  Also, Buff State basically = St. Lawrence from the Independent days.  Utica is about the same or, if you want to go back to the pre-Utica days, Utica = SJF.

I disagree about Mansfield.  Playing a non-DIII team really doesn't help you at all because the game basically doesn't count.  (See Rowan).  The same argument goes for re-adding AIC.

In the end, this team finished about where they should have. 

Looking at the big picture:

-We had to replace one of the best (maybe THE best) QB in school history.

-We only had one receiver with any serious experience to help out a rookie QB.

-Rookie QB also had to get used to a rookie OC.

-We had two backs that never were quite as good as they were two years ago.  Maybe this is how they were the whole time and two years ago just gave us unreasonable expectations.

-We had a defense attempting to bounce back from one of the worst defense seasons in school history.

-The same defense that was also trying to learn a totally new scheme.

Sure, I would have liked to have reloaded a little better but, considering where the program was after the dismantling Union gave us last winter, I think Welch & Co. did a decent job guiding this team through a brutal schedule.  At worst, they did at least a good enough job to withold judgment for 12 months.

This was kind of the sandwich year between Felicetti/Colon/Espo/Donovan/Baez and Juvan/Kulp/Kiah/Seamus-Hogan/etc.  We'll see what happens now.

I completely agree with this. Really, I looked at this year as kind of an in-between year. Not necessarily because Ithaca didn't have the talent, but more so because of the change in regime at quarterback. Ithaca went 7-3 during Felicetti's freshmen season and lost a very close Cortaca Jug game to a senior-laden Cortland team that went 8-2 and probably should have made the playoffs.

Juvan was Felicetti's back-up last year and knew the offense but there's a difference between backing up one of the better quarterbacks in school history and going out as the starter and running the offense yourself. Plus, there was a new offensive coordinator this year.

Defensively, the defense is still trying to find a dominating veteran presence. Right now, the most experience lies in the secondary. The starting linebackers were all new after the graduation of Colon-Medici-Ross who played like gangbusters in the middle. It's hard when you replace three guys that were making most of the plays as seniors.

The schedule I have no problem with. The Empire 8 proved to be a tough challenge this year. Out of conference, Buffalo State has been struggling since Jerry Boyes went into the front office but Ithaca's played them ever since I can remember. Brockport had a down year. The Golden Eagles since the late 90s have been one of the better teams on Ithaca's schedule. I liked the addition of Huntingdon. Someone Ithaca had never played before, a team from a different part of the country and a team that had pretty high expectations coming into the season.

I can't see Ithaca adding Mansfield again. Obviously a loss to a D-II team wouldn't hurt in terms of the playoff picture, but it wouldn't help either. I don't like the rumors that Brockport is being dropped, but if Kings is seriously considering moving to the E8 (need new name w/Stevens joining full-time), then I'm all for having them on the schedule. Kings isn't that far away and Coach Manello has had some good teams that can run the ball well. His best team by far was the 2002 team with Steve Wilson that ate Mike Warker for breakfast to win the MAC title.

Then the question is, who do you put in the Huntingdon slot? Personally, I'd like Ithaca to add someone from the Liberty League or the MAC. Hobart was always a fun game and its a short drive to Geneva. Wilkes played Ithaca back when I was in school and I thought that was a good match-up. Heck, maybe even a New Jersey team every once in a while.

All-in-all, I'm still impressed with what this group of seniors accomplished. I'll never forget Donovan running wild all over Cortland in 2004. His 70-yard run or so breaking multiple tackles was probably the highlight of the game. And the good news, there's lots of players coming back for next year. Juvan will be a year older and wiser and maybe Grastorf will step up and challenge him.

I forgot to add this to my comments earlier...but I agree too with what has been said.  There is really no upside to bringing Mansfield or AIC back onto the schedule.  The best thing we can hope for is keeping the "regulars" on the schedule and hoping for continued improvement in-conference.  I think this season with what turned out to be 4 NCAA contenders really helps, Brockport will bounce back, etc etc.  I would love to see an additional NJAC team on the schedule instead of the Huntingdon game (the games with TCNJ were always good) but thats really the only change I would make.

[JQV]

I think the great irony of the schedule debate is, when we joined the E8 I was excited because it was getting too hard to get into the tourney as an Independent.  We had to play too many good teams and beat them all to get in.

When we joined this league, SJF was still a joke, AU was down and SC wasn't in yet.  I thought we would have our ticket punched every fall.  Who knew it would turn out to be so interesting.  I sort of hope these other programs maintain a high level.

[theicdubbz]

after coming out of a year with the best QB in school history I was wondering what this year would entail  with a new OC, QB, and a new D.

The biggest dissapointment I had was we didnt use the talent to its extent.  Juvan is 6'3" with speed.  Why did we not send him on more boot legs or options?? We finally have a QB with option capabilities annnnddddd... nothin'.
Perhaps the OC was conservative or hesitant in his first year but, Welchy needed to use the air welch philosophy.  We had WR's that could fly down the field and we threw more 5 yard dumps than I can remember in any previous season.  We threw the ball one time down the field against cortland in which Juvon over threw it but, we stopped after that.  Kelly Gordon had one touch on offense.  When the kid is breaking 80 and 90 yard kick returns like stealing candy from a baby, wouldnt you realize he is a play maker??  there had to be plays in the play book for a kid with that talent?  Next, we didnt really utilize Baez as much as I thought we should have.  Hard nose Donovan football is great but Baez is D1 material if he is 4 inches taller.

food for thought.

[realistic]

I think the great irony of the schedule debate is, when we joined the E8 I was excited because it was getting too hard to get into the tourney as an Independent.  We had to play too many good teams and beat them all to get in.

When we joined this league, SJF was still a joke, AU was down and SC wasn't in yet.  I thought we would have our ticket punched every fall.  Who knew it would turn out to be so interesting.  I sort of hope these other programs maintain a high level.

It really is amazing what 5 (?) years makes....I really like this way though.  Rolling over people is fun but now a schedule with Cortaca, new rival SJF, an AU team capable of upsets, the up and down rediculous Springfield offense....very interesting for years to come.

[theicdubbz]

In our IND days of Bomber football it seems we played a  stronger schedule. perhaps because we needed it in order to get a bid.  current bomber football seems E8 with weaker out of conference opponents.  Lets throw Mansfield back in there.

-We had two backs that never were quite as good as they were two years ago.  Maybe this is how they were the whole time and two years ago just gave us unreasonable expectations.

-

True

[fisheralum91]

good time to enjoy d3 football!

[JQV]

after coming out of a year with the best QB in school history I was wondering what this year would entail  with a new OC, QB, and a new D.

The biggest dissapointment I had was we didnt use the talent to its extent.  Juvan is 6'3" with speed.  Why did we not send him on more boot legs or options?? We finally have a QB with option capabilities annnnddddd... nothin'.
Perhaps the OC was conservative or hesitant in his first year but, Welchy needed to use the air welch philosophy.  We had WR's that could fly down the field and we threw more 5 yard dumps than I can remember in any previous season.  We threw the ball one time down the field against cortland in which Juvon over threw it but, we stopped after that.  Kelly Gordon had one touch on offense.  When the kid is breaking 80 and 90 yard kick returns like stealing candy from a baby, wouldnt you realize he is a play maker??  there had to be plays in the play book for a kid with that talent?  Next, we didnt really utilize Baez as much as I thought we should have.  Hard nose Donovan football is great but Baez is D1 material if he is 4 inches taller.

food for thought.

Dubbz I couldn't agree more about the use of Baez, a complaint I registered here a few times this fall.

As for airing it out, I can at least understand Coach Welch's concern.  When you have a young QB, you want him to manage mistakes and not lose the game.  For the most part, that strategy was succesful.  Juvan was consistent enough not to lose and the rest of the team carried the slack.  I think he is in a much better position for next year because he wasn't thrown to far into the fire this fall.

[John McGraw]

I agree. I'd much rather have the Empire 8 be competitive.

[maxpower]

A question for Fisher fans.... Union fans' chief strategy will be merlot and chardonnay... IC has its Bomber shots.... what is the preferred drink of the SJF faithful? Genny light would give me some hometown pride.....

[The Truth 00]

union fans are the biggest a-holes on earth. that may be a little harsh but overall, they suck. i know up in those parts, the beer of choice seems to be labatt bleu.

[fisheralum91]

good question on the fisher drink of choice--
whil there in the 80's- it was either Golden Anniversary, Blatz or Genny.

Wow-i wouldnt be able to get any of those down now!

[JQV]

Not to look ahead to '07 too quickly (I know there are two teams with playoffs to consider in '06) nevertheless...

When teams report next fall, the E8 will have five stud QBs returning that all had good years this season.  (That is counting Sharpe as a QB and counting Boltus who is trying to make chicken salad out of Hartwick teammates).

Dan Juvan-Ithaca
Paul Keeley-Alfred
Rob Kramer-SJF
Chris Sharpe-SC
Jason Boltus-HC

Looks like it will be a bad year to be a defensive coordinator in the league.

[The Truth 00]

is boltus leaving hartwick? i heard a dirty rumor about that. if so, hartwick better be offering full boats this winter, breaking all kinds of rules.