FB: Empire 8

[AlfredSaxon8]

As I continue to watch the D3 Championship game on ESPN I cant help but have a strong distaste for these announcers...

[sjfcards]

blah, blah, blah...MUC wins again. It blows my mind how they can win year after year after year. You can't have anything but respect for them, I just get bored with it. Oh Well, no use eating sour grapes. Congrats to them.

I keep thinking about how much we would talk about UWW being one of the better teams (over a few year stretch) in the history of DIII if MUC didn't exist.

[boobyhasgameyo]

It's tough to compare a high school team to a team like MUC. I think MUC would beat up on them as well, but I think the better question is how would they do against a team closer to the middle of the pack in DIII. Is High School Football in Florida, Texas, California ,etc. better than mid range DIII teams like some of our E8 teams? I hate to say it but I think a team like St. Thomas Aquinas in Florida might win the E8.

It is tough to compare...but I don't think any HS team would win the E8.  Not for lack of talent...but lack of developing..both physically and knowledge.

That's a valid point, but then I think about when Pierre was a Freshman (coming out of Florida oddly enough) he single handidly defeated Fisher....There is only a difference of a few months between a high school senior and a college freshman.  So if he was able to be that effective that early, what about a team that had 3 or 4 Pierre type players.  Obviously Pierre was kind of a fluke since he is good enough to play in the NFL and who knows if St. Thomas Aquinas has players that will be there one day, but I'm just saying it would be interesting...


Oh and congrats Mount Union. 

[Yanks 99]

It's tough to compare a high school team to a team like MUC. I think MUC would beat up on them as well, but I think the better question is how would they do against a team closer to the middle of the pack in DIII. Is High School Football in Florida, Texas, California ,etc. better than mid range DIII teams like some of our E8 teams? I hate to say it but I think a team like St. Thomas Aquinas in Florida might win the E8.

It is tough to compare...but I don't think any HS team would win the E8.  Not for lack of talent...but lack of developing..both physically and knowledge.

That's a valid point, but then I think about when Pierre was a Freshman (coming out of Florida oddly enough) he single handidly defeated Fisher....There is only a difference of a few months between a high school senior and a college freshman.  So if he was able to be that effective that early, what about a team that had 3 or 4 Pierre type players.  Obviously Pierre was kind of a fluke since he is good enough to play in the NFL and who knows if St. Thomas Aquinas has players that will be there one day, but I'm just saying it would be interesting...


Oh and congrats Mount Union. 

He may have single handily beat Fisher (though to this day I don't personally feel like he was in the endzone on the Hail Mary), but they still weren't good enough to win the E8...not even close.  Their best year ever in the E8 and basically finished fifth.  Beat teams that they should have, didn't beat anyone else(besides Fisher) that was any good.  Garcon was a great, great player though.  It would be interesting to see a team like STA play up a level though...for that, I will agree with you.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Oh my friend he only made it to the 2 yard line, it was no touchdown.  It's just been a few years so I've gotten over it. 

[Bombers798891]

This may have been posted but here are the E8 guys on the D3football.com All-American team

Hartwick

Phelan (1st)

Ithaca

Scalice (1st)
Cheir (1st)
Weverburgh (3rd)
Gray (3rd)

Bombers nicely represented. Cheir may be the best corner IC's has in a very long time

Gotta say, I'm suprised that Boltus wasn't on the list, given his placement on the AP list....

[Yanks 99]

This may have been posted but here are the E8 guys on the D3football.com All-American team

Hartwick

Phelan (1st)

Ithaca

Scalice (1st)
Cheir (1st)
Weverburgh (3rd)
Gray (3rd)

Bombers nicely represented. Cheir may be the best corner IC's has in a very long time

Gotta say, I'm suprised that Boltus wasn't on the list, given his placement on the AP list....

That is unbelievable that Boltus is not on one of those All-American teams.  More than unbelievable...a total crock.  D3football.com has taken a huge step backwards in my opinion...smells like small time politics to me.  Show me another example where an individual breaks a major all-time record, finishes in the top 5 all time in several others, plays in two post season games, wins the region POY twice, Gagliardi regional POY and finalist twice, ECAC POY, AP Little All-American 2nd team (beaten out by a DII player whose team won the DII NC), is being scouted by close to every NFL team, and is ranked the 18th best QB...in the country... by nfldraftscout.com, wins a national POY award (that you refuse to recognize), and he CANNOT make even Honorable Mention for QB on your site?  Not even a top 4 guy?

This will probably get me kicked off here...but Pat and crew...what a bunch of crap.  I thought you were better then that.  There has only been 3 times total when one of your region POY didn't make your AA team...and Boltus is now two of them.  3 out of a little under 40.  Take away Boltus and the odds of making the AA team if named one of the POY awards is about 97%.  I am not sure what your bias is against him, but you certainly have one...and it is bad form.  Not one mention of the Melberger Award on here last year...not one mention of it.  Funny how the College Football HOF recognizes the award (Boltus's jersey is hanging up at the HOF as I write this), but not D3football.  I didn't say much last year...figured there was some MUC and senior bias, and Boltus' time would come.  No excuse this year though.  How can the AP name this kid the second best QB in the country between all DII, DIII, and NAIA schools and D3football in their infinate wisdom doesn't think he is one of the best 4?  If I had to bet, I would guarantee that none of the selection committee has ever seen Boltus even play...while the Colts scout has seen him play live at least 4 times this year alone.

Total crap...congrats on a great year Boltus.  At least the big dogs recognized you appropriately.  Enjoy your dinner with Micheli's parents D3 crew.

[Yanks 99]

I do want to say congrats to the IC guys, however.  Great job representing the E8...

[Bombers798891]

This may have been posted but here are the E8 guys on the D3football.com All-American team

Hartwick

Phelan (1st)

Ithaca

Scalice (1st)
Cheir (1st)
Weverburgh (3rd)
Gray (3rd)

Bombers nicely represented. Cheir may be the best corner IC's has in a very long time

Gotta say, I'm suprised that Boltus wasn't on the list, given his placement on the AP list....

That is unbelievable that Boltus is not on one of those All-American teams.  More than unbelievable...a total crock.  D3football.com has taken a huge step backwards in my opinion...smells like small time politics to me.  Show me another example where an individual breaks a major all-time record, finishes in the top 5 all time in several others, plays in two post season games, wins the region POY twice, Gagliardi regional POY and finalist twice, ECAC POY, AP Little All-American 2nd team (beaten out by a DII player whose team won the DII NC), is being scouted by close to every NFL team, and is ranked the 18th best QB...in the country... by nfldraftscout.com, wins a national POY award (that you refuse to recognize), and he CANNOT make even Honorable Mention for QB on your site?  Not even a top 4 guy?

This will probably get me kicked off here...but Pat and crew...what a bunch of crap.  I thought you were better then that.  There has only been 3 times total when one of your region POY didn't make your AA team...and Boltus is now two of them.  3 out of a little under 40.  Take away Boltus and the odds of making the AA team if named one of the POY awards is about 97%.  I am not sure what your bias is against him, but you certainly have one...and it is bad form.  Not one mention of the Melberger Award on here last year...not one mention of it.  I didn't say much last year...figured there was some MUC and senior bias, and Boltus' time would come.  No excuse this year though.  How can the AP name this kid the second best QB in the country between all DII, DIII, and NAIA schools and D3football in their infinate wisdom doesn't think he is one of the best 4?  If I had to bet, I would guarantee that none of the selection committee has ever seen Boltus even play...while the Colts scout has seen him play live at least 4 times this year alone.

Total crap...congrats on a great year Boltus.  At least the big dogs recognized you appropriately.

Yanks

Well, in the interest of fairness, let's look at the numbers

Boltus: 242-405 (60%) 3934 yards 46 TD's, 10 INT's, 221 Rush yards, 2 TD's
Joseph: 301-445 (67%) 3463 yards, 32 TD's, 6 INT's, 412 Rush yards, 4 TD's
Swallow: 295-444 (66%) 3778 yards, 37 TD's 6 INT's, -18 Rush Yards, 2 TD's
Rupp: 313-500 (63%) 4184 yards, 45 TD's, 14 INT's, 444 Rush yards, 4 TD's
Micheli: 240-320 (75%) 3743 yards, 36 TD's 2 INT's, 515 Rush Yards, 4 TD's

Ok here's my thoughts...

1) Micheli: Completion percentage and only two interceptions make him a no brainer

2) Rupp: Only slightly better completion percentage, four more picks and only 200 more yards, despite 71 more completions. Double the rushing yards and TD's however. Might put him slightly ahead of Boltus based on total yards, but that kind of depends on how much weight you give the rushing yards.

3) Joseph: Better completion percentage by a decent amount, and only 6 INT's. Also has a 2-1 edge in rushing yards. However, Boltus threw for 500 more yards and 14 more TD's in 40 fewer attempts. I guess the completion % and INT's outweigh the TD's and yardage. Personally, you could go either way here

4) Swallow: Better comp % and 6-1 TD/INT ratio. However, threw for less yards and fewer TD's. Another big question is the negative rushing yards, as he's the only QB to not really be a running threat.

Was Boltus shafted? I don't know. I could see an argument for putting him ahead of Rupp and Joseph, but really, it's a tight contest. I don't think it was politics

Boltus' problems were threefold:

1) His completion percentage was the worst of the group (57% in three losses)
2) His interceptions were the highest (Including 6 in the three losses)
3) His team was the worst of the three

It's a tough call given the competition.

I will say, I thought IC's Bergerstock would have made the list had he not been hurt. Compare him to Giuliano

Giuliano 280 attempts, 1480 yards, 5.3 YPC, 22 TD's
Bergerstock: 213 attempts, 1236 yards, 5.7 YPC, 20 TD's

Consider that Bergerstock did this damamge in just over 8 games, while Guliano played in 13 (Bergerstock got hurt in the Alfred game in the 1st Half, got only one carry in Cortaca and did not play at all against Curry)

The injury cost Bergerstock a spot on the team. Given Ruggerio's performance against Alfred, Cortland and Curry, another 300 yards and 4-5 TD's might not have been out of the question. And of course, who knows if IC would have beaten Curry. Tough break for Thomas...maybe next season

[Hawks15]

Boltus definately got shafted again...all those guys are not asked to do what Jay is and thats stand back there and throw 50 times a game. Everyone knew we were gonna throw it and no one could stop Boltus. Michelle and those other guys got a lot more weapons than Jay. We had 8 guys in coverage everytime we threw the ball...the kid would fit it in the smallest of windows and step up in the pocket and take hits. As his reciever I know if it wasnt for him my numbers would be about a fourth of what they are. If im on this team than Jay should have been period.

[Bombers798891]

Boltus definately got shafted again...all those guys are not asked to do what Jay is and thats stand back there and throw 50 times a game. Everyone knew we were gonna throw it and no one could stop Boltus. Michelle and those other guys got a lot more weapons than Jay. We had 8 guys in coverage everytime we threw the ball...the kid would fit it in the smallest of windows and step up in the pocket and take hits. As his reciever I know if it wasnt for him my numbers would be about a fourth of what they are. If im on this team than Jay should have been period.

I would agree that some of those guys have more weapons than Bolutus did, but I think that all four of those guys were solid picks.

[Yanks 99]

Boltus definately got shafted again...all those guys are not asked to do what Jay is and thats stand back there and throw 50 times a game. Everyone knew we were gonna throw it and no one could stop Boltus. Michelle and those other guys got a lot more weapons than Jay. We had 8 guys in coverage everytime we threw the ball...the kid would fit it in the smallest of windows and step up in the pocket and take hits. As his reciever I know if it wasnt for him my numbers would be about a fourth of what they are. If im on this team than Jay should have been period.

I would agree that some of those guys have more weapons than Bolutus did, but I think that all four of those guys were solid picks.

Plain and simple...Boltus got shafted...two years in a row.  I could take last year...but no way did he not get shafted this year.  Stats aren't the whole story...but the only reason Micheli is close is because he had 5 more games (not that he should be penalized for that).  I am not knocking a single Wick player by saying this...and I honestly mean this...but Boltus meant everything to that team...I venture that the Wick players agree.  He single handily kept them in games that they normally would have little chance, or need an extraordinary effort.  The back up QB for MUC would lead that team to a Final 4...no question.  Honestly...how many times did Micheli get knocked to the ground this year?  Maybe 50?  It is not hard to look like a million dollars and all world when you have a RB that rushes for over 8,000 yards in a career and an O-Line the size of a good DI team.  Try looking all world scrambling for your life and getting beaten to the ground nearly every game.

As I said...read the first part of my post concerning the matter.  Show me ANY individual with that much pedigree that hasn't made their AA team...that much recongition nationally from everyone else...the stats, the region POYs, the Gagliardi finalist x2, the National POY last year and in line for another one...I could go on and on.  The D3 crew messed up...and I couldn't care less if I get kicked out of this board for good.  I would like to see hard cold facts that Pat Coleman or someone else that decides the team actually has seen Boltus play, and not just some half of film...as I know for a fact that the Indianapolis Colts have seen him play 4 times this year.  They got it wrong...plain and simple.  Two years in a row...unbelievable.

Off subject...big time congrats to Jack Phelan for making 1st team AA.  Hell of a career...

[Yanks 99]

Bombers...I also agree that if Bergerstock didn't get hurt, he would have made AA no problem.  Is he a senior?

[Yanks 99]

Boltus definately got shafted again...all those guys are not asked to do what Jay is and thats stand back there and throw 50 times a game. Everyone knew we were gonna throw it and no one could stop Boltus. Michelle and those other guys got a lot more weapons than Jay. We had 8 guys in coverage everytime we threw the ball...the kid would fit it in the smallest of windows and step up in the pocket and take hits. As his reciever I know if it wasnt for him my numbers would be about a fourth of what they are. If im on this team than Jay should have been period.

Agreed...by the way...congrats again...hell of a career man.

[Bombers798891]

Bombers...I also agree that if Bergerstock didn't get hurt, he would have made AA no problem.  Is he a senior?

Yanks--

Bergerstock is a junior, but the IC offensive line is losing some people next season...

Re: Boltus--he was a one man show for the most part, although when discussing Michelli, we have to remember two things: A) He was handing off to Nate Kimic a lot this season and B) He wasn't throwing the ball for 60 minutes like Boltus often was

I do think Boltus got hurt by Hartwick's lack of team success, and I'd agree he was more of a one man show than the other guys. I do however, think that hurt him. Want proof? Look at Colt Brennan. See any Heisman's in his trophy case? Nope. Because not only did Hawaii not have that pedigree, there was this belief that he was a system QB who threw the ball all the time. Do I agree with that? Nope. I think Brennan should have won the Heisman two years ago. But I think Boltus is hurt by that. I think people look at some of his numbers and assume he compiled them in one of two ways:

A) Beating up on the weaker teams (Norwich, Utica, etc.) that Hartwick played
B) Throwing in comeback attempts against good teams and getting a lot of meaningless yards.

I confess I only saw him one time, against IC, but that game's kind of a microcosim of the difficulties a guy like Boltus faces because of his team's weaknesses. He opens it with a pick 6, and the team gets down 27-7 in the first quarter.
After that, he has to keep throwing because Hartwick has no choice so really, is it a suprise he racks up that many yards and a bunch of scores?

Look at the lines of the two QB's in that game

Boltus: 36-59, 460 yards, 4 TD's, 2 INT's
Juvan: 13-17, 279 yards, 4 TD's, 0 INT's

You could argue that Juvan had a better day. Wouldn't Boltus' numbers have been more impressive in a 45-31 win than a 69-49 loss?

Again, do I agree with all of this logic? No. But, in a sense, I see where the argument comes from. As I said though, Boltus is a heck of a QB, and I certainly think an argument for him being on the list has a lot of merit.