FB: Empire 8

[Yanks 99]

Bombers...I also agree that if Bergerstock didn't get hurt, he would have made AA no problem.  Is he a senior?

Yanks--

Bergerstock is a junior, but the IC offensive line is losing some people next season...

Re: Boltus--he was a one man show for the most part, although when discussing Michelli, we have to remember two things: A) He was handing off to Nate Kimic a lot this season and B) He wasn't throwing the ball for 60 minutes like Boltus often was

I do think Boltus got hurt by Hartwick's lack of team success, and I'd agree he was more of a one man show than the other guys. I do however, think that hurt him. Want proof? Look at Colt Brennan. See any Heisman's in his trophy case? Nope. Because not only did Hawaii not have that pedigree, there was this belief that he was a system QB who threw the ball all the time. Do I agree with that? Nope. I think Brennan should have won the Heisman two years ago. But I think Boltus is hurt by that. I think people look at some of his numbers and assume he compiled them in one of two ways:

A) Beating up on the weaker teams (Norwich, Utica, etc.) that Hartwick played
B) Throwing in comeback attempts against good teams and getting a lot of meaningless yards.

I confess I only saw him one time, against IC, but that game's kind of a microcosim of the difficulties a guy like Boltus faces because of his team's weaknesses. He opens it with a pick 6, and the team gets down 27-7 in the first quarter.
After that, he has to keep throwing because Hartwick has no choice so really, is it a suprise he racks up that many yards and a bunch of scores?

Look at the lines of the two QB's in that game

Boltus: 36-59, 460 yards, 4 TD's, 2 INT's
Juvan: 13-17, 279 yards, 4 TD's, 0 INT's

You could argue that Juvan had a better day. Wouldn't Boltus' numbers have been more impressive in a 45-31 win than a 69-49 loss?

Again, do I agree with all of this logic? No. But, in a sense, I see where the argument comes from. As I said though, Boltus is a heck of a QB, and I certainly think an argument for him being on the list has a lot of merit.

I will just never understand the logic that he is not one of the top QB's in all of D3...or that he didn't have a an AA year.  There is a counter arguement that he threw for that many yards because Wick couldn't run the ball as well as they liked...or because that was their best option to stay with the IC's, SJF's, Alfred's, etc.

I was also at the IC-HC game this year.  I understand your points, but I thought Boltus was running for his life all game, and that the IC offense did whatever they wanted.  I say take a step back...was the game close at the end...no.  However, Wick was down only 6 late in the third though, and it was pretty clear that from an overall talent standpoint the only reason we were in the game was because of Boltus.  Like I have said before, you take Micheli (who is a great D3 QB) off of MUC and their back up QB could lead them to the Final 4 this year...especially with an o-line that size and the all-time leading rusher in college football history to hand the ball off to.

My beef is that everyone else on a national level seems to realize that he is a special player...in my opinion, easily the best player the E8 has ever seen.  Just an opinion...but one that seems to be shared by other many other national services.  It is simply very telling that Boltus was named the second best QB in all of DII, DIII, and NAIA...but not named a top 4 QB in DIII but D3football.  In my opinion, bad form by Pat and crew.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Bombers...I also agree that if Bergerstock didn't get hurt, he would have made AA no problem.  Is he a senior?

Yanks--

Bergerstock is a junior, but the IC offensive line is losing some people next season...

Re: Boltus--he was a one man show for the most part, although when discussing Michelli, we have to remember two things: A) He was handing off to Nate Kimic a lot this season and B) He wasn't throwing the ball for 60 minutes like Boltus often was

I do think Boltus got hurt by Hartwick's lack of team success, and I'd agree he was more of a one man show than the other guys. I do however, think that hurt him. Want proof? Look at Colt Brennan. See any Heisman's in his trophy case? Nope. Because not only did Hawaii not have that pedigree, there was this belief that he was a system QB who threw the ball all the time. Do I agree with that? Nope. I think Brennan should have won the Heisman two years ago. But I think Boltus is hurt by that. I think people look at some of his numbers and assume he compiled them in one of two ways:

A) Beating up on the weaker teams (Norwich, Utica, etc.) that Hartwick played
B) Throwing in comeback attempts against good teams and getting a lot of meaningless yards.

I confess I only saw him one time, against IC, but that game's kind of a microcosim of the difficulties a guy like Boltus faces because of his team's weaknesses. He opens it with a pick 6, and the team gets down 27-7 in the first quarter.
After that, he has to keep throwing because Hartwick has no choice so really, is it a suprise he racks up that many yards and a bunch of scores?

Look at the lines of the two QB's in that game

Boltus: 36-59, 460 yards, 4 TD's, 2 INT's
Juvan: 13-17, 279 yards, 4 TD's, 0 INT's

You could argue that Juvan had a better day. Wouldn't Boltus' numbers have been more impressive in a 45-31 win than a 69-49 loss?

Again, do I agree with all of this logic? No. But, in a sense, I see where the argument comes from. As I said though, Boltus is a heck of a QB, and I certainly think an argument for him being on the list has a lot of merit.

I will just never understand the logic that he is not one of the top QB's in all of D3...or that he didn't have a an AA year.  There is a counter arguement that he threw for that many yards because Wick couldn't run the ball as well as they liked...or because that was their best option to stay with the IC's, SJF's, Alfred's, etc.

I was also at the IC-HC game this year.  I understand your points, but I thought Boltus was running for his life all game, and that the IC offense did whatever they wanted.  I say take a step back...was the game close at the end...no.  However, Wick was down only 6 late in the third though, and it was pretty clear that from an overall talent standpoint the only reason we were in the game was because of Boltus.  Like I have said before, you take Micheli (who is a great D3 QB) off of MUC and their back up QB could lead them to the Final 4 this year...especially with an o-line that size and the all-time leading rusher in college football history to hand the ball off to.

My beef is that everyone else on a national level seems to realize that he is a special player...in my opinion, easily the best player the E8 has ever seen.  Just an opinion...but one that seems to be shared by other many other national services.  It is simply very telling that Boltus was named the second best QB in all of DII, DIII, and NAIA...but not named a top 4 QB in DIII but D3football.  In my opinion, bad form by Pat and crew.

I don't know, I'd say Garcon was the best player to come out of the E8.  I also think Robinson was better at his respective position, but that's just my bias.  Brenton Brady.....He was insane.  There have been some good ones to come out of the E8, I don't think Boltus tops the list.   

[Yanks 99]

Should have stated a bit clearer...Boltus, best QB by far.  Best player in my opinion, but once you reach the top 3-5 players, it really comes down to opinion, loyalty, how many times you have seen them play, etc.

Only reason I have a hard time saying Garcon as the #1 (certainly in the arguement), is because he was in the league for only 2 years.  All 4 years...no question.  Garcon, for as good as he was, never got his team to the NCAA's.  Biggest talent to date though.

[sjfcards]

Boltus definately got shafted again...all those guys are not asked to do what Jay is and thats stand back there and throw 50 times a game. Everyone knew we were gonna throw it and no one could stop Boltus. Michelle and those other guys got a lot more weapons than Jay. We had 8 guys in coverage everytime we threw the ball...the kid would fit it in the smallest of windows and step up in the pocket and take hits. As his reciever I know if it wasnt for him my numbers would be about a fourth of what they are. If im on this team than Jay should have been period.

I would agree that some of those guys have more weapons than Bolutus did, but I think that all four of those guys were solid picks.

Plain and simple...Boltus got shafted...two years in a row.  I could take last year...but no way did he not get shafted this year.  Stats aren't the whole story...but the only reason Micheli is close is because he had 5 more games (not that he should be penalized for that).  I am not knocking a single Wick player by saying this...and I honestly mean this...but Boltus meant everything to that team...I venture that the Wick players agree.  He single handily kept them in games that they normally would have little chance, or need an extraordinary effort.  The back up QB for MUC would lead that team to a Final 4...no question.  Honestly...how many times did Micheli get knocked to the ground this year?  Maybe 50?  It is not hard to look like a million dollars and all world when you have a RB that rushes for over 8,000 yards in a career and an O-Line the size of a good DI team.  Try looking all world scrambling for your life and getting beaten to the ground nearly every game.

As I said...read the first part of my post concerning the matter.  Show me ANY individual with that much pedigree that hasn't made their AA team...that much recongition nationally from everyone else...the stats, the region POYs, the Gagliardi finalist x2, the National POY last year and in line for another one...I could go on and on.  The D3 crew messed up...and I couldn't care less if I get kicked out of this board for good.  I would like to see hard cold facts that Pat Coleman or someone else that decides the team actually has seen Boltus play, and not just some half of film...as I know for a fact that the Indianapolis Colts have seen him play 4 times this year.  They got it wrong...plain and simple.  Two years in a row...unbelievable.

Off subject...big time congrats to Jack Phelan for making 1st team AA.  Hell of a career...

I kind of have to agree about Boltus being about more than just numbers (although they are disgusting) for Hartwick. I watched him play twice in the 4 years he was at HC, and both times I said to myself; "this team is horrible, but they can beat anyone with that QB". This years game against Fisher, the Fisher D had that offense in 3rd and long (very long) several times, and he would either throw for the first down, or run for it. He was dropping dimes all over the secondary all day. But more than that, he made huge plays at key moments, and just had an aura about him, that you knew he was going to do something special. I honestly think that he is every bit the talent that Michelli is.

[dlippiel]

Boltus definately got shafted again...all those guys are not asked to do what Jay is and thats stand back there and throw 50 times a game. Everyone knew we were gonna throw it and no one could stop Boltus. Michelle and those other guys got a lot more weapons than Jay. We had 8 guys in coverage everytime we threw the ball...the kid would fit it in the smallest of windows and step up in the pocket and take hits. As his reciever I know if it wasnt for him my numbers would be about a fourth of what they are. If im on this team than Jay should have been period.

I would agree that some of those guys have more weapons than Bolutus did, but I think that all four of those guys were solid picks.

Plain and simple...Boltus got shafted...two years in a row.  I could take last year...but no way did he not get shafted this year.  Stats aren't the whole story...but the only reason Micheli is close is because he had 5 more games (not that he should be penalized for that).  I am not knocking a single Wick player by saying this...and I honestly mean this...but Boltus meant everything to that team...I venture that the Wick players agree.  He single handily kept them in games that they normally would have little chance, or need an extraordinary effort.  The back up QB for MUC would lead that team to a Final 4...no question.  Honestly...how many times did Micheli get knocked to the ground this year?  Maybe 50?  It is not hard to look like a million dollars and all world when you have a RB that rushes for over 8,000 yards in a career and an O-Line the size of a good DI team.  Try looking all world scrambling for your life and getting beaten to the ground nearly every game.

As I said...read the first part of my post concerning the matter.  Show me ANY individual with that much pedigree that hasn't made their AA team...that much recongition nationally from everyone else...the stats, the region POYs, the Gagliardi finalist x2, the National POY last year and in line for another one...I could go on and on.  The D3 crew messed up...and I couldn't care less if I get kicked out of this board for good.  I would like to see hard cold facts that Pat Coleman or someone else that decides the team actually has seen Boltus play, and not just some half of film...as I know for a fact that the Indianapolis Colts have seen him play 4 times this year.  They got it wrong...plain and simple.  Two years in a row...unbelievable.

Off subject...big time congrats to Jack Phelan for making 1st team AA.  Hell of a career...

I kind of have to agree about Boltus being about more than just numbers (although they are disgusting) for Hartwick. I watched him play twice in the 4 years he was at HC, and both times I said to myself; "this team is horrible, but they can beat anyone with that QB". This years game against Fisher, the Fisher D had that offense in 3rd and long (very long) several times, and he would either throw for the first down, or run for it. He was dropping dimes all over the secondary all day. But more than that, he made huge plays at key moments, and just had an aura about him, that you knew he was going to do something special. I honestly think that he is every bit the talent that Michelli is.

Could you imagine if Boltus had Micheli's surrounding cast to work with? To me Phelan is a very talented athlete and solid receiver and he was the only one who Boltus could count on consistently. HC has had no depth whatsoever at any position and was atrocious on the D side of the ball. Boltus was and is simply amazing. I also am a huge fan of Micheli and feel his on the fiedl and off the field accomplishments are great. Yet I still have to ask, what would Boltus have done if he had MUC's surrounding cast? I don't know the exact answer but I feel MUC would even been more unstoppable and Kmic's #'s would be even bigger because you would have to defend the pass every down with Boltus at the helm. Stepped over or not Boltus should hold his head high and be very proud of his career. He still got some recognition on a national level and sure got tons from us in the east. Great season Mr. Boltus and the best of luck to you in the future.

[AUKaz00]

How about a new topic?

I find it uncanny that Pep and my NFL team's (the Marine Mammals of Miami) season is paralleling the Alfred Saxons' season so intimately.  Both started with low expectations, but the team overachieved and had a chance to win their division/conference with 2 weeks to go only to lose a game that they should have won but didn't deserve to win.

The Fish just tied up the Chiefs, but I have no doubt that they'll eventually lose and then block an extra point to force OT next week only to win and knock the Jets out of the playoffs.  Football imitating football...

[Knightstalker]

How about a new topic?

I find it uncanny that Pep and my NFL team's (the Marine Mammals of Miami) season is paralleling the Alfred Saxons' season so intimately.  Both started with low expectations, but the team overachieved and had a chance to win their division/conference with 2 weeks to go only to lose a game that they should have won but didn't deserve to win.

The Fish just tied up the Chiefs, but I have no doubt that they'll eventually lose and then block an extra point to force OT next week only to win and knock the Jets out of the playoffs.  Football imitating football...

Take it easy there, as a Dolphin fan since Bob Griese rookie season I don't panic.  They beat the Chiefs and now they just need to beat the Jets and they go to the playoffs as the 3rd seed.

[AUKaz00]

How about a new topic?

I find it uncanny that Pep and my NFL team's (the Marine Mammals of Miami) season is paralleling the Alfred Saxons' season so intimately.  Both started with low expectations, but the team overachieved and had a chance to win their division/conference with 2 weeks to go only to lose a game that they should have won but didn't deserve to win.

The Fish just tied up the Chiefs, but I have no doubt that they'll eventually lose and then block an extra point to force OT next week only to win and knock the Jets out of the playoffs.  Football imitating football...

Take it easy there, as a Dolphin fan since Bob Griese rookie season I don't panic.  They beat the Chiefs and now they just need to beat the Jets and they go to the playoffs as the 3rd seed.

KS, the more I get to know you, the more I like you.  I was really just trying to bring to levity to the board since it had spiraled down into the Jason Boltus cagefight again and I was intrigued by the parallels that I saw between my two teams' seasons.  I'm exited about week 17 for the Fish for the first time in a while, so their season (along with my Saxons') has been a pleasure.

Oh, and don't forget that we have a place for you in the band in Madison for week 2 next year!

[Knightstalker]

How about a new topic?

I find it uncanny that Pep and my NFL team's (the Marine Mammals of Miami) season is paralleling the Alfred Saxons' season so intimately.  Both started with low expectations, but the team overachieved and had a chance to win their division/conference with 2 weeks to go only to lose a game that they should have won but didn't deserve to win.

The Fish just tied up the Chiefs, but I have no doubt that they'll eventually lose and then block an extra point to force OT next week only to win and knock the Jets out of the playoffs.  Football imitating football...

Take it easy there, as a Dolphin fan since Bob Griese rookie season I don't panic.  They beat the Chiefs and now they just need to beat the Jets and they go to the playoffs as the 3rd seed.

KS, the more I get to know you, the more I like you.  I was really just trying to bring to levity to the board since it had spiraled down into the Jason Boltus cagefight again and I was intrigued by the parallels that I saw between my two teams' seasons.  I'm exited about week 17 for the Fish for the first time in a while, so their season (along with my Saxons') has been a pleasure.

Oh, and don't forget that we have a place for you in the band in Madison for week 2 next year!

What will make a Dolphins win next week even better is Chad Pennington getting dumped by the Jets for Favre.

[AlfredSaxon8]

How about a new topic?

I find it uncanny that Pep and my NFL team's (the Marine Mammals of Miami) season is paralleling the Alfred Saxons' season so intimately.  Both started with low expectations, but the team overachieved and had a chance to win their division/conference with 2 weeks to go only to lose a game that they should have won but didn't deserve to win.

The Fish just tied up the Chiefs, but I have no doubt that they'll eventually lose and then block an extra point to force OT next week only to win and knock the Jets out of the playoffs.  Football imitating football...

Take it easy there, as a Dolphin fan since Bob Griese rookie season I don't panic.  They beat the Chiefs and now they just need to beat the Jets and they go to the playoffs as the 3rd seed.

KS, the more I get to know you, the more I like you.  I was really just trying to bring to levity to the board since it had spiraled down into the Jason Boltus cagefight again and I was intrigued by the parallels that I saw between my two teams' seasons.  I'm exited about week 17 for the Fish for the first time in a while, so their season (along with my Saxons') has been a pleasure.

Oh, and don't forget that we have a place for you in the band in Madison for week 2 next year!

Kaz!!! The Dolphins?!?!?! Come onnnnn   

[AlfredSaxon8]

Brady Quinn getting hit by his own teammate in the weight room...

Dear Shaun Smith, 
  I am glad you finally hit a quarterback this season.  However, we forgot to tell you that it was supposed to be the opposing quarterback, not our franchise QB that is currently on IR.  Our organization loves negative publicity, which you seem to generate very well.  We would like to give something back to you for the time you have spent with us...I hope you enjoy the pink slip that will decorate your locker at the end of the year.  Happy Trails. 

-The Browns Organization

[AlfredSaxon8]

Sorry, but I seem to post in clusters...

Interesting fact I saw... 

The Titans have lost to only two teams this year, the Jets and the Texans- Both of whom were beaten by the Raiders

I guess thats why they play the game...

[fisheralum91]

Good morning all-
From the FA91 family to yours-- have the safest and most enjoyable holiday season and here is to hoping that santa brings fisher good luck in the coming year!

[Pat Coleman]

That is unbelievable that Boltus is not on one of those All-American teams.  More than unbelievable...a total crock.  D3football.com has taken a huge step backwards in my opinion...smells like small time politics to me.  Show me another example where an individual breaks a major all-time record, finishes in the top 5 all time in several others, plays in two post season games, wins the region POY twice, Gagliardi regional POY and finalist twice, ECAC POY, AP Little All-American 2nd team (beaten out by a DII player whose team won the DII NC), is being scouted by close to every NFL team, and is ranked the 18th best QB...in the country... by nfldraftscout.com, wins a national POY award (that you refuse to recognize), and he CANNOT make even Honorable Mention for QB on your site?  Not even a top 4 guy?

This will probably get me kicked off here...but Pat and crew...what a bunch of crap.  I thought you were better then that.  There has only been 3 times total when one of your region POY didn't make your AA team...and Boltus is now two of them.  3 out of a little under 40.  Take away Boltus and the odds of making the AA team if named one of the POY awards is about 97%.  I am not sure what your bias is against him, but you certainly have one...and it is bad form.  Not one mention of the Melberger Award on here last year...not one mention of it.  Funny how the College Football HOF recognizes the award (Boltus's jersey is hanging up at the HOF as I write this), but not D3football.  I didn't say much last year...figured there was some MUC and senior bias, and Boltus' time would come.  No excuse this year though.  How can the AP name this kid the second best QB in the country between all DII, DIII, and NAIA schools and D3football in their infinate wisdom doesn't think he is one of the best 4?  If I had to bet, I would guarantee that none of the selection committee has ever seen Boltus even play...while the Colts scout has seen him play live at least 4 times this year alone.

Total crap...congrats on a great year Boltus.  At least the big dogs recognized you appropriately.  Enjoy your dinner with Micheli's parents D3 crew.

I know this has been discussed and someone posted the actual facts, which was great, since we used actual facts and not opinion to choose the team, but I couldn't let this go without a response.

Five All-American candidate quarterbacks, four slots. There was a lot of discussion throughout the process and there is definitely an argument for all five guys being on the list, no question.

But we only choose four.

I think the quarterback most comparable to Boltus in style and numbers was Chad Rupp, and he led his team to two playoff wins and a trip to the regional finals, from a conference that had won one playoff game in nine years with an automatic bid. Everyone else we thought was better as well. Do you think that it wasn't obvious that Juan Joseph was going to throw the ball all the time, too? He had 403 pass attempts at the time of his nomination (compared to 405 for Boltus) and threw 40% fewer interceptions. And on top of it, Joseph averaged six yards a carry. (Boltus, 2.87.)

Boltus was the only one of the final five under 60% completions. He threw more touchdowns and for more yards, sure, but he threw more in general.

It's great he has pro potential and we hope he succeeds, but I think we all know that D-III talent doesn't equally translate to pro potential.

As for the Melberger, we don't recognize regional awards. Just because the pro football Hall of Fame recognizes the Wilkes-Barre Touchdown Club's player of the year doesn't mean they should. If they had a national award chosen by a national committee, we would recognize it. But they threw that away more than five years ago. We didn't recognize it when Boltus was chosen, we didn't recognize it when Chris Sharpe was chosen and we didn't recognize it when Wilkes RB Brett Trichilo -- twice.

[fisheralum91]

*golf clap*

bravo pat