FB: Empire 8

[pg04]

In addition to what has already been said, I think it would take a lot to get Brockport and Buff State out of the NJAC now, unless there was a sturdy conference already set up willing to accept them. 

[Jonny Utah]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I don't think the E8 presidents thought the SUNY schools were "beneath" them, since many SUNY schools are academically on par or better than many E8 schools.  It had to do with the fact that private E8 schools have similar issues, concerns and goals with each other that public schools don't have.

[AUKaz00]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I don't think the E8 presidents thought the SUNY schools were "beneath" them, since many SUNY schools are academically on par or better than many E8 schools.  It had to do with the fact that private E8 schools have similar issues, concerns and goals with each other that public schools don't have.

I agree with JU.  Plus a number of the schools saw the tuition rates for SUNY as providing a competitive advantage for recruiting.  The conference itself still makes sense, it's the football portion of the conference that is in a tight spot.

[theoriginalupstate]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

[AlfredSaxon8]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

[Jonny Utah]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

[AlfredSaxon8]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

Not sure about the validity of that story but lets not forget that this is a completely different athletic department than the early 90's... I was trying to speak of the hear and now... My main problem is why IC would leave the E8 to join a lesser conference? Is it arrogance? What does the LL have to offer besides more mediocre competition? So what if the schools cost more money, I dont understand how that transfers to football conferences?

[theoriginalupstate]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

I wouldn't go that far.  Sure lately the E8 has had great success but you mentioned "tradition".  Are you talking about a school by school breakdown or conference breakdown.  Neither conference has been around very long with their current make up. 

[Ralph Turner]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

Eagle87, I am a little unclear as to the meaning of that post.  The SUNYAC  appears to be 6 years older than the E8.  Would you please help me understand your point?


http://www.empire8.com/About-History.shtml

The Empire 8 has been serving its membership in various forms over the past 40 years.

In 1964, Alfred University, Clarkson University, Hobart College, Rensselaer, St. Lawrence University, and Union College joined together to form the Independent College Athletic Conference (ICAC). Its primary purpose was aimed at schedule making for a few major sports. Union soon dropped out to be replaced later by Ithaca College and RIT. The conference remained at seven institutions for 20 years. Hobart and William Smith merged as one member and Hartwick College entered the conference in 1991.

In 1991, the ICAC reorganized and the Empire Athletic Association (EAA) emerged as a quality conference composed of institutions with top academic and athletic reputations.

Since 1993, the EAA served as a single sport conference for Men and Women's Basketball. Soon after the departure of Hobart/William Smith, RPI, and St. Lawrence, Elmira College, Nazareth College, and Utica College joined the EAA to maintain six members and a cohesive basketball alignment. In 1998, Alfred University and St. John Fisher became the latest of the eight official members.

In the Fall of 1999, the EAA officially became the Empire 8 which evolved into a comprehensive conference for 13 sports for men and women. The conference also employed its first full-time Commissioner. In August 2001, the conference hired its second and current Commissioner, Chuck Mitrano. In July of 2002, the conference hired its first part-time SID, Timothy Farrell. On August 7, 2002 the Presidents Council officially became part of the governance structure and a new revised Constitution was adopted. In March 2006, the Empire 8 announced that Stevens Institute of Technology would become a full member of the conference in Fall 2007.

The members of the Empire 8 are committed first and foremost to the pursuit of academic excellence and aspire to be regarded as an outstanding NCAA Division III conference. The membership seeks to distinguish itself among its peer group for its quality institutions, spirited and sportsmanlike competition, outstanding services and highly ethical policies and practices. Its commitment to serve the educational needs of its student-athletes is the hallmark of the
Empire 8.

http://www.sunyac.com/

The SUNYAC celebrated 50 years of excellence last year.  1958-2008

Thanks.

[Jonny Utah]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

Not sure about the validity of that story but lets not forget that this is a completely different athletic department than the early 90's... I was trying to speak of the hear and now... My main problem is why IC would leave the E8 to join a lesser conference? Is it arrogance? What does the LL have to offer besides more mediocre competition? So what if the schools cost more money, I dont understand how that transfers to football conferences?

-Moretti was involved with the move in the 1990s and his administration was there at the time where IC was left to fill a game at the last minute.  So its not too different.  Why would you still trust that guy?

-I wouldn't call the LL a "lesser comference."  I don't know where you got that one from.  The LL is a better baseball conference, and might be better competition for IC overall in sports that they dominate since the E8's start.  I mean, in terms of total sports, Ithaca has probably won more than 50% of all E8 sports championships, maybe even close to 75%

-Maybe IC was sick of having to pay for travel to all these new teams that want to join the conference from NJ, VT and MA?  The LL would offer a stable conference with constant members.  Now they wouldn't have to worry about the AQ.

-I would bet that IC would still play SJF in football if they left.  Its a rivalry that is higher than any conference rivalry could be.

[AlfredSaxon8]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

Not sure about the validity of that story but lets not forget that this is a completely different athletic department than the early 90's... I was trying to speak of the hear and now... My main problem is why IC would leave the E8 to join a lesser conference? Is it arrogance? What does the LL have to offer besides more mediocre competition? So what if the schools cost more money, I dont understand how that transfers to football conferences?

-Moretti was involved with the move in the 1990s and his administration was there at the time where IC was left to fill a game at the last minute.  So its not too different.  Why would you still trust that guy?

-I wouldn't call the LL a "lesser comference."  I don't know where you got that one from.  The LL is a better baseball conference, and might be better competition for IC overall in sports that they dominate since the E8's start.  I mean, in terms of total sports, Ithaca has probably won more than 50% of all E8 sports championships, maybe even close to 75%

-Maybe IC was sick of having to pay for travel to all these new teams that want to join the conference from NJ, VT and MA?  The LL would offer a stable conference with constant members.  Now they wouldn't have to worry about the AQ.

-I would bet that IC would still play SJF in football if they left.  Its a rivalry that is higher than any conference rivalry could be.

Coach Moretti is a friend so I cannot say anything about that because of my personal bias. 

I completely agree that IC has dominated the E8 in all sports, I was actually going to bring up that point earlier... And I cant say anything about the LL for baseball because AU only has a club team.

I'm saying that the LL is a lesser conference in regards to competition for football.  The E8 over the past years has brought some of the greatest athletes and greatest D3 games of the year.  AU lost games to Hartwick and Ithaca on the last play of the game then beat Fisher in OT... Some of the most exciting games I have ever been a part of. The E8 also put 3 teams in the NCAA playoffs two years ago.  Also, the E8 has twice produced teams in the past 4 years that gave MUC battles in the playoffs bringing legitimacy to the conference.  Also, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Ithaca rank among the top 25 teams in overall wins over the past 4 years.  Not to mention the Springfield run three years ago, and the past 4 years with Hartwick.  Top to bottom, the E8 produces better competition, that is the point I was trying to make. 

Upstate- Youre right about both conferences being relatively new, I was implying the football traditions of the teams in the E8 overall.

As for the comment about IC being sick of traveling around the Northeast... Football is not about being comfortable, its about playing the best teams.  If they have to travel 7 hours to play good football then so be it.

[Jonny Utah]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

Not sure about the validity of that story but lets not forget that this is a completely different athletic department than the early 90's... I was trying to speak of the hear and now... My main problem is why IC would leave the E8 to join a lesser conference? Is it arrogance? What does the LL have to offer besides more mediocre competition? So what if the schools cost more money, I dont understand how that transfers to football conferences?

-Moretti was involved with the move in the 1990s and his administration was there at the time where IC was left to fill a game at the last minute.  So its not too different.  Why would you still trust that guy?

-I wouldn't call the LL a "lesser comference."  I don't know where you got that one from.  The LL is a better baseball conference, and might be better competition for IC overall in sports that they dominate since the E8's start.  I mean, in terms of total sports, Ithaca has probably won more than 50% of all E8 sports championships, maybe even close to 75%

-Maybe IC was sick of having to pay for travel to all these new teams that want to join the conference from NJ, VT and MA?  The LL would offer a stable conference with constant members.  Now they wouldn't have to worry about the AQ.

-I would bet that IC would still play SJF in football if they left.  Its a rivalry that is higher than any conference rivalry could be.

Coach Moretti is a friend so I cannot say anything about that because of my personal bias. 

I completely agree that IC has dominated the E8 in all sports, I was actually going to bring up that point earlier... And I cant say anything about the LL for baseball because AU only has a club team.

I'm saying that the LL is a lesser conference in regards to competition for football.  The E8 over the past years has brought some of the greatest athletes and greatest D3 games of the year.  AU lost games to Hartwick and Ithaca on the last play of the game then beat Fisher in OT... Some of the most exciting games I have ever been a part of. The E8 also put 3 teams in the NCAA playoffs two years ago.  Also, the E8 has twice produced teams in the past 4 years that gave MUC battles in the playoffs bringing legitimacy to the conference.  Also, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Ithaca rank among the top 25 teams in overall wins over the past 4 years.  Not to mention the Springfield run three years ago, and the past 4 years with Hartwick.  Top to bottom, the E8 produces better competition, that is the point I was trying to make. 

Upstate- Youre right about both conferences being relatively new, I was implying the football traditions of the teams in the E8 overall.

As for the comment about IC being sick of traveling around the Northeast... Football is not about being comfortable, its about playing the best teams.  If they have to travel 7 hours to play good football then so be it.

Yea I don't disagree with anything you are saying, except schools can play whoever they want out of conference.  SJF can play MUC out of conference, Ithaca can play Cortland, Union etc.  The league doesn't really have anything to do about playing the "best" teams. 

Its just when you have a team from NJ in the league in other sports, that means schools like Ithaca and Alfred have to send 15 sports there once a year.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Right, it is up to the AD on who is played out of conference.  However, IC jumping to the LL and still keeping traditional games against SJF and Cortland... That means they have the same 10 games each year, right?

[Jonny Utah]

Right, it is up to the AD on who is played out of conference.  However, IC jumping to the LL and still keeping traditional games against SJF and Cortland... That means they have the same 10 games each year, right?

We still don't know if its a definite that IC is going.  And if they do go, the LL would have 9 football teams, and it would leave Ithaca with 2 non league games.  Cortland would be a definite, and then they would either play SJF or Alfred I would think.  Hartwick is a close day trip though, so who knows what they would want to do.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Right, it is up to the AD on who is played out of conference.  However, IC jumping to the LL and still keeping traditional games against SJF and Cortland... That means they have the same 10 games each year, right?

We still don't know if its a definite that IC is going.  And if they do go, the LL would have 9 football teams, and it would leave Ithaca with 2 non league games.  Cortland would be a definite, and then they would either play SJF or Alfred I would think.  Hartwick is a close day trip though, so who knows what they would want to do.

Yeah I like the recent IC vs HC rivalry although I dont think it will be the same without Boltus.  I think there are just a lot of great games produced by the E8 each year and I hate to see that go away.  Not saying there aren't great games in the LL or that IC is definitely going there but just really disappointed to see the conference possibly dwindling away.