FB: Empire 8

[boobyhasgameyo]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

Not sure about the validity of that story but lets not forget that this is a completely different athletic department than the early 90's... I was trying to speak of the hear and now... My main problem is why IC would leave the E8 to join a lesser conference? Is it arrogance? What does the LL have to offer besides more mediocre competition? So what if the schools cost more money, I dont understand how that transfers to football conferences?

-Moretti was involved with the move in the 1990s and his administration was there at the time where IC was left to fill a game at the last minute.  So its not too different.  Why would you still trust that guy?

-I wouldn't call the LL a "lesser comference."  I don't know where you got that one from.  The LL is a better baseball conference, and might be better competition for IC overall in sports that they dominate since the E8's start.  I mean, in terms of total sports, Ithaca has probably won more than 50% of all E8 sports championships, maybe even close to 75%
-Maybe IC was sick of having to pay for travel to all these new teams that want to join the conference from NJ, VT and MA?  The LL would offer a stable conference with constant members.  Now they wouldn't have to worry about the AQ.

-I would bet that IC would still play SJF in football if they left.  Its a rivalry that is higher than any conference rivalry could be.

I don't know about that JU in terms of mens sports I was looking it up, and outside of baseball which is clearly Ithaca's strong suit they haven't dominated any of the other sports since the E8 was formed.  They initally had a strong hold on football but obviously the conference has become more competitive in recent years.  Also do well in track and tennis.  But then Fisher pretty much owns the basketball and golf.  Alfred with the swimming.  Naz with the lacrosse.  etc. etc.  Maybe you are factoring the women's sports into your percentages but it doesn't seem to me that Ithaca is running roughshod through the conference in all sports, not in the past 6 years or so at least.   

[John McGraw]

Regarding the Ithaca to the Liberty League rumors - this year's football schedule includes back-to-back games against Liberty schools to start with both St. Lawrence and Union on the road. (No the schedule isn't posted but both games are listed on the opponents web sites)

The Bombers haven't played the Larries since 2003 in Canton when Ithaca destroyed SLU, 55-13. The two teams do have an extensive series history against one another. That being said; given the circumstances, it's interesting that out of the blue, Ithaca is going up to Canton to play St. Lawrence to start the season.


Also, local television stations are reporting that Jason Boltus worked out this past week for the CFL's Hamilton Tiger Cats and that he's close to signing with them for the 2009 season.

[Jonny Utah]

It,s unfortunate that when the Empire 8 was formed the SUNY schools asked to be part of the confrence since they were independent at that time. The Presidents, AD's & Football coaches of the new E8 NY schools thought that it was beneath them to play the SUNY schools ,and they would rather play schools like Springfield. This forced the SUNY schools to have to join leagues that played in MD,Va & NJ.

Have fun traveling and playing a independent schedule.

I hope you are directing that at schools other than IC, SJF and Utica.  They had/have no problems playing state schools.  When was the last time that AU and Hartwick played a state school during the regular season?  I went back to 1999 and didn't find any games vs SUNY Schools for either school. (Wick played Buff St and Port in ECAC games).

I really don't know the last time we played a State school in the regular season.  I would guess the early the early 90's with Buff State or UB when they were still D3.  We scrimmage the SUNY schools, I have played Brockport twice in scrimmages but, as far as the regular season, I also do not understand why we do not play SUNY schools.  However, Ithaca jumping to the LL because of its "prestige" is just the same as schools like AU and Hartwick not playing SUNY schools.  They may play SUNY schools, good for them, but we arent the ones jumping conferences... It's gonna be sad to see them go, I think the E8 has a better football tradition than the LL

Lets not forget that Alfred joined the Presidents conference back in the 1990s breaking agreed games with schools like Ithaca college.  When told that they would have to honor the game, Alfred told officials at IC "go ahead and keep the game on your schedule, we simply won't show up".  That is the story I heard from an IC coach.  Maybe Alfred can go back to the PAC if they didn't want to play independendents like Ithaca from past practices?

Not sure about the validity of that story but lets not forget that this is a completely different athletic department than the early 90's... I was trying to speak of the hear and now... My main problem is why IC would leave the E8 to join a lesser conference? Is it arrogance? What does the LL have to offer besides more mediocre competition? So what if the schools cost more money, I dont understand how that transfers to football conferences?

-Moretti was involved with the move in the 1990s and his administration was there at the time where IC was left to fill a game at the last minute.  So its not too different.  Why would you still trust that guy?

-I wouldn't call the LL a "lesser comference."  I don't know where you got that one from.  The LL is a better baseball conference, and might be better competition for IC overall in sports that they dominate since the E8's start.  I mean, in terms of total sports, Ithaca has probably won more than 50% of all E8 sports championships, maybe even close to 75%
-Maybe IC was sick of having to pay for travel to all these new teams that want to join the conference from NJ, VT and MA?  The LL would offer a stable conference with constant members.  Now they wouldn't have to worry about the AQ.

-I would bet that IC would still play SJF in football if they left.  Its a rivalry that is higher than any conference rivalry could be.

I don't know about that JU in terms of mens sports I was looking it up, and outside of baseball which is clearly Ithaca's strong suit they haven't dominated any of the other sports since the E8 was formed.  They initally had a strong hold on football but obviously the conference has become more competitive in recent years.  Also do well in track and tennis.  But then Fisher pretty much owns the basketball and golf.  Alfred with the swimming.  Naz with the lacrosse.  etc. etc.  Maybe you are factoring the women's sports into your percentages but it doesn't seem to me that Ithaca is running roughshod through the conference in all sports, not in the past 6 years or so at least.   

I meant mens and womens sports together. 

[Eagle87]

The SUNYAC does not have a football division.

When the Empire 8 was formed the upstate SUNY schools presented the opportunity for the rest of the Upstate NY schools to have a NY confrence but since they did not want to play the SUNY schools they choose to play schools in VT & MA.

[Jonny Utah]

The SUNYAC does not have a football division.

When the Empire 8 was formed the upstate SUNY schools presented the opportunity for the rest of the Upstate NY schools to have a NY confrence but since they did not want to play the SUNY schools they choose to play schools in VT & MA.

And you could have bet that when the SUNYAC got enough teams to form a football conference, they would have left the other conferences.

I was talking about the conference for other sports that the SUNYAC does not allow private schools.

The empire 8 schools cant compete with schools like Cortland that get tens of millions of dollars in state grants for facilities, thats why they chose to keep it private.  Its not uncommon for public schools to form their own leagues for the same reasons.

[fisheralum91]

eagle87- ju is right... it is not as if the E8 was formed with a counrty club mentality.   It made sense.  Like schools playing like schools.  Each had unique but similar situations.  It wasnt a blackball of SUNY schools.  It seems moot now that it may be dissolving- but i for one enjoyed the e8.  Hell back when i was at fisher i would ave begged to be in a league like the e8.  instead we traveled to east squeegie and back looking for teams to play.

['gro]

saxon8, you need to put down the purple kool aid. Please expand on the great football tradition in the E8 besides the 3 obvious NC's by the bombers. Buff State had a good run back in the day, and Hartwick passes alot, so they have that going for them.  Utica is brand new, SJF has been good the past 10 years but we know what they were like before that. Alfred is the prennial middle of the pack team in the E8, always waiting for that breakout season that never happens (see Rochester in the LL).

RPI, Union, Hobart, SLU, and Rochester have been playing eachother for decades. RPI/WPI have played over 100 games. No tradition there...

And without getting into who beat who in what year, I would say that the LL & E8 are at the very least on par with one another... fighting for the best in NY title each year.

It is evident that the hatred toward the "lesser" LL comes from Alfred's recent loss to RPI in the ECAC's.

[Jonny Utah]

saxon8, you need to put down the purple kool aid. Please expand on the great football tradition in the E8 besides the 3 obvious NC's by the bombers. Buff State had a good run back in the day, and Hartwick passes alot, so they have that going for them.  Utica is brand new, SJF has been good the past 10 years but we know what they were like before that. Alfred is the prennial middle of the pack team in the E8, always waiting for that breakout season that never happens (see Rochester in the LL).

RPI, Union, Hobart, SLU, and Rochester have been playing eachother for decades. RPI/WPI have played over 100 games. No tradition there...

And without getting into who beat who in what year, I would say that the LL & E8 are at the very least on par with one another... fighting for the best in NY title each year.

It is evident that the hatred toward the "lesser" LL comes from Alfred's recent loss to RPI in the ECAC's.

Come on Gro.  You know ECAC games only count when E8 teams win them.  Its part of the tradition.  An E8 tradition I might add that I was never able to experience in my old age.

[union89]

I don't think I'm drinking 'gro's whack ass cool aide here when I say, historically, the classic matchup for NY D3 football has to be Ithaca vs. Union.

I would love to see Ithaca come to the LL.
I am indifferent about the chances of Fisher coming to the LL.
I would prefer not to have Alfred join the LL.

[AUKaz00]

I don't think I'm drinking 'gro's whack ass cool aide here when I say, historically, the classic matchup for NY D3 football has to be Ithaca vs. Union.

I would love to see Ithaca come to the LL.
I am indifferent about the chances of Fisher coming to the LL.
I would prefer not to have Alfred join the LL.

Seems to me someone's afraid of the Big, Bad Pep Band!

['gro]

Just giving ole saxy8 the new guy business. Gro would prefer the two conferences stay intact just so we can continue this "who's better" talk.

IC and Alfred do have connections with RPI and Union in the old ICAC days... either one would be a good addition to the LL, but I hope the league doesn't get bigger than 8 teams. I like having 7 conference games and enough room to schedule some OOC to pad the resume if you don't win outright.

[Jonny Utah]

Just giving ole saxy8 the new guy business. Gro would prefer the two conferences stay intact just so we can continue this "who's better" talk.

IC and Alfred do have connections with RPI and Union in the old ICAC days... either one would be a good addition to the LL, but I hope the league doesn't get bigger than 8 teams. I like having 7 conference games and enough room to schedule some OOC to pad the resume if you don't win outright.

I don't picture Susquhana staying there for the long term

[Tags]

When is the last time an LL school beat an E8 school during regular season or NCAA's?

In recent history, I have seen SJF take out an ok Union team, and a decent Hobart squad in the playoffs. And they've routinely put a beating on UR over the past few years.

Note: I don't care what conference is better, just wondering about the above.

[Tags]

saxon8, you need to put down the purple kool aid. Please expand on the great football tradition in the E8 besides the 3 obvious NC's by the bombers. Buff State had a good run back in the day, and Hartwick passes alot, so they have that going for them.  Utica is brand new, SJF has been good the past 10 years but we know what they were like before that. Alfred is the prennial middle of the pack team in the E8, always waiting for that breakout season that never happens (see Rochester in the LL).

RPI, Union, Hobart, SLU, and Rochester have been playing eachother for decades. RPI/WPI have played over 100 games. No tradition there...

And without getting into who beat who in what year, I would say that the LL & E8 are at the very least on par with one another... fighting for the best in NY title each year.

It is evident that the hatred toward the "lesser" LL comes from Alfred's recent loss to RPI in the ECAC's.

RE: Alfred

Well said... it's blasphemous to say it in here though.

RE: Fisher's last ten years

I'd say a decade of good teams makes the case for it being OK to say they have built a "tradition"

[theoriginalupstate]

When is the last time an LL school beat an E8 school during regular season or NCAA's?

In recent history, I have seen SJF take out an ok Union team, and a decent Hobart squad in the playoffs. And they've routinely put a beating on UR over the past few years.

Note: I don't care what conference is better, just wondering about the above.

Union beat Springfield last year.