FB: Empire 8

[HScoach]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

[dlippiel]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

If a true East Region team does finish 10-0 dlip would hope that MUC would not come East!

[redswarm81]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

The difference in 2005 is that MUC wasn't undefeated.  It would be very difficult for the Selection Committee to place a 9-1 MUC ahead of a 10-0 team in another region.

Unfortunately, we had a test case for this scenario last year, but Cortland St. lost the Cortaca Jug to Ithaca after going 9-0.

[union89]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

[Knightstalker]

KS wouldn't just worry about MUC coming east, there is another team that if they keep playing like they are could get moved to the east as a 1 seed.  Wesley would also be within the 500 mile bus trip radius of most east region schools and they are looking very strong right now.   Of course this also depends on the strength of the southern region as a whole.

[union89]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

The difference in 2005 is that MUC wasn't undefeated.  It would be very difficult for the Selection Committee to place a 9-1 MUC ahead of a 10-0 team in another region.

Unfortunately, we had a test case for this scenario last year, but Cortland St. lost the Cortaca Jug to Ithaca after going 9-0.

Apples to Oranges......two totally different arguements.

[redswarm81]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

The difference in 2005 is that MUC wasn't undefeated.  It would be very difficult for the Selection Committee to place a 9-1 MUC ahead of a 10-0 team in another region.

Unfortunately, we had a test case for this scenario last year, but Cortland St. lost the Cortaca Jug to Ithaca after going 9-0.

Apples to Oranges......two totally different arguements.

You might be right, but no one can possibly know what you think is the first argument, and what you think is the second argument that is totally different.

But you might be right.

[JQV]

I agree. This is one of the things that killed Buffalo State in the early 2000's, although Fisher will not drop that far. It will be very interesting to see if SJF can remain an East Power or if they'll fade back, kind of like Brockport did after their 3-4 year run. I don't mean that as a dig, just an honest question.

It just seems like any momentum that the program built from 2002-2007 has been canceled out...

Really?  No one can give me some credit?  Where are all those bandwagon Fisher fans that showed up during their first run that shouted me down everytime I said that they had to sustain the momentum longer before I considered them a permanent rival to IC?

+k to Upstate who has never argued against my point.

[maxpower]

Jose is feelin it.....

[pumkinattack]

The rival thing is often somewhat manufactured.  Cortland was your rival when they sucked because of the history.  It's kind of unfair to newer schools or newer programs, obviously, but rivalries just don't happen over five or ten years.  You can have a class or two at two schools who develop a hatred, jealousy (sp?) or whatever, but that's not the same as an institutional distaste.  

That being said, it's also a little early to write off Fisher (even if they don't make the playoffs this year).  7-4 followed up with what will likely be between 5-5 and 7-3 (plus maybe an ECAC game) isn't falling off a cliff.  It's more like Brockport's decline than Buff St., but part of the reason Brockport fell off the NY State map has to do with not having a century long (or whatever) rivalry with Ithaca and playing a bunch of schools out of region (which may not be their fault since some schools don't schedule state schools as a rule, for better or worse).  There's presumably no interest from HS kids in NY State if they've never heard of 90% of your schedule.  I would guess that Cortland's ability to recruit has something to do with Cortaca as much as their NJAC schedule.  I can tell you that Cortland is basically off Hobart's map even though their pretty close together (hour or so) except maybe looking at playoff matchups.  I'm pretty sure that's true for all the LL schools (maybe not us sophisticated PP's followers of D3 football, of course).  Maybe with Brockport, Morrisville and Cortland all playing in one conference that will benefit all those schools in the future, but it will probably take a few years to find out.  

[JQV]

I am not writing Fisher off.  I am just saying we have seen this dance before and it is far too early to tell.

Don't even raise the issue of how a rivalry forms.  The Fisher bandwagon just pulled over so everyone could pile off and snipe your karma PA.  TTrust me.

[pumkinattack]

I took that on about a week ago.  I'm not picking a fight and I thought that I predicated it with the degree of fairness that is implied with it, but so be it.

[JQV]

Here is +k for me just for your effort.

I think rivalries are hard to understand if you haven't participated in one as a fan or player.  From the outside, you can convince yourself that a manufactured rivalry is the same but it isn't.

[theoriginalupstate]

What is really killing SJF the past two years is the inability to run the ball consistently.  From 2001-2007 they averaged 171 (01), 170 (02), 221 (03), 231 (04), 228 (05), 223 (06) and 179 (07) yards per game on the ground.  The past two years their rushing average per game is 142 (08) and 72 (09) yards per game.  The ground game the past two years has been lacking due to scheme and personnel.  They have yet to find a RB that doesn't fall over after a gust of wind or a RB that isn't constantly injured. 

You can't expect success when you schedule MUC, Salisbury (on top of an already extremely competitive conference schedule) and expect to get to the NCAA's when you have a sub par running game in addition to a QB that only knows how to throw bombs.

This BYE week comes at a great time as the injury bug has bitten them big time.

[BoSox0322]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses