FB: Empire 8

[pumkinattack]

What is really killing SJF the past two years is the inability to run the ball consistently.  From 2001-2007 they averaged 171 (01), 170 (02), 221 (03), 231 (04), 228 (05), 223 (06) and 179 (07) yards per game on the ground.  The past two years their rushing average per game is 142 (08) and 72 (09) yards per game.  The ground game the past two years has been lacking due to scheme and personnel.  They have yet to find a RB that doesn't fall over after a gust of wind or a RB that isn't constantly injured. 

You can't expect success when you schedule MUC, Salisbury (on top of an already extremely competitive conference schedule) and expect to get to the NCAA's when you have a sub par running game in addition to a QB that only knows how to throw bombs.

This BYE week comes at a great time as the injury bug has bitten them big time.

Our schedule isn't quite as tough (but on the better half of the LL/E8 I think), but we have the same problem with a lack of running game.  Just been lucky to have some awesome and underrated QB's and WR's.  You have to have a balanced attack to win.

[Bombers798891]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

And what team, pray tell, is looking that much better in the E8?

Fisher at 2-2* (* for the MUC) with a close win at home vs. Rochester? Are Rochester and Buffalo State all that good?

Utica at 2-2 with their only two wins coming against, as you put it "a bunch of weak sisters"? (Sorry Utica, it had to be said. You know I respect the strides you've made.)

Springfield's 2-1, but since they lost to Alfred pretty badly, I can't put them up there.

Hartwick? Yeah, they're 4-0. But there's that whole "weak sisters" thing again. Becker? Morrisville State? Norwich? That's three gift wins.

IC? Probably your best hope, but it's not like they're a buzzsaw. They're 3-1, and hey, maybe Widener and Utica won't be that bad. But they're not a clear-cut favorite. Right now, it's probably the Saxons and Bombers, but frankly, no team has really stepped up and made a big statement

[theoriginalupstate]

I think it's safe to say that the E8 wont be decided until the final week of the year...

[dlippiel]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

Who is bashing? Doesn't someone have the right to feel Alfred shouldn't be put on the Eastern pedestal because they haven't lost. It is a valid point to question the strength of the teams they have played because those teams are not very good. dlip's exception here is the Pride because he feels they are much improved from 08 and a decent team. Hence, he was quite impressed with the Saxons convincing W on Sat over Springfield and believes that with that victory they deserve consideration as being one of the top teams in the east. Yet, there is nothing wrong with questioning the reasons why many have The Saxons at the top of their list and looking for clarification about why people have them there.

[union89]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically.  

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

No bashing here....just questioning why almost everyone thinks Alfred is the class of the East.  I can understand if a handful of people speak of Alfred, but it seems like close to 90% of the posters feel that Alfred is head and shoulders above everyone else with only a win over Springfield.......even Springfield's strength is based totally on guesswork.

A couple teams I think are better than Alfred based on quality win's..........How about Wilkes, Delaware Valley & Lebanon Valley in the MAC.

Hartwick, RPI & TCNJ don't really have strong wins, but have a stronger recent history than Alfred (although I don't agree with that arguement) and don't have a loss.

Cases can also be made for teams like Union & Ithaca to be better than Alfred.

My point is, Alfred is off to a good start, but is extremely unproven......I question why Alfred is almost UNANYMOUSLY everyones team to beat in the East.

[lewdogg11]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically.  

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

No bashing here....just questioning why almost everyone thinks Alfred is the class of the East.  I can understand if a handful of people speak of Alfred, but it seems like close to 90% of the posters feel that Alfred is head and shoulders above everyone else with only a win over Springfield.......even Springfield's strength is based totally on guesswork.

A couple teams I think are better than Alfred based on quality win's..........How about Wilkes, Delaware Valley & Lebanon Valley in the MAC.

Hartwick, RPI & TCNJ don't really have strong wins, but have a stronger recent history than Alfred (although I don't agree with that arguement) and don't have a loss.

Cases can also be made for teams like Union & Ithaca to be better than Alfred.

My point is, Alfred is off to a good start, but is extremely unproven......I question why Alfred is almost UNANYMOUSLY everyones team to beat in the East.

HIP?  HIP-HOP?  HIP-HOP-ANONYMOUS?

[AUKaz00]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically.  

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

No bashing here....just questioning why almost everyone thinks Alfred is the class of the East.  I can understand if a handful of people speak of Alfred, but it seems like close to 90% of the posters feel that Alfred is head and shoulders above everyone else with only a win over Springfield.......even Springfield's strength is based totally on guesswork.

A couple teams I think are better than Alfred based on quality win's..........How about Wilkes, Delaware Valley & Lebanon Valley in the MAC.

Hartwick, RPI & TCNJ don't really have strong wins, but have a stronger recent history than Alfred (although I don't agree with that arguement) and don't have a loss.

Cases can also be made for teams like Union & Ithaca to be better than Alfred.

My point is, Alfred is off to a good start, but is extremely unproven......I question why Alfred is almost UNANYMOUSLY everyones team to beat in the East.

I hope everyone touting Alfred is right (for obvious, selfish reasons), but I can't help think that the praise is more to build up a nice straw man that Wick, Fisher, Ithaca and Utica each have a chance to knock down.  I'm not trying to be flippant and I enjoy reading pages of praise about Alfred football almost as much as Pep, but doesn't it make more sense for the other E6 teams to proclaim Alfred the best so if/when they beat the Saxons it is "worth" so much more?  We appreciate the love here in Mayberry and, again, hope you are proven correct, but as a number of our LL brethren have pointed out all that Alfred has done is beaten three "weak sisters" and a Springfield team that's been in the hype machine since last November.

[union89]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically.  

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

No bashing here....just questioning why almost everyone thinks Alfred is the class of the East.  I can understand if a handful of people speak of Alfred, but it seems like close to 90% of the posters feel that Alfred is head and shoulders above everyone else with only a win over Springfield.......even Springfield's strength is based totally on guesswork.

A couple teams I think are better than Alfred based on quality win's..........How about Wilkes, Delaware Valley & Lebanon Valley in the MAC.

Hartwick, RPI & TCNJ don't really have strong wins, but have a stronger recent history than Alfred (although I don't agree with that arguement) and don't have a loss.

Cases can also be made for teams like Union & Ithaca to be better than Alfred.

My point is, Alfred is off to a good start, but is extremely unproven......I question why Alfred is almost UNANYMOUSLY everyones team to beat in the East.

HIP?  HIP-HOP?  HIP-HOP-ANONYMOUS?

Wow, I really muckled that one.....that's so bad I'm not even going to correct it.....

[Jonny Utah]

I have alfred at #1 in my poll since week 1 because they were competetive will the top ranked e8 teams last year, and they had the best players comming back in the best positions.   I would not be suprised if they lose 4 games the rest of the year though if that makes any sense. 

[fisheralum91]

I guess i put AU in a drivers seat spot not only because of the way they came back with many returning players, but cmon- Springfield isnt sisters for the poor here- they got beat handily.

[BoSox0322]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

Who is bashing? Doesn't someone have the right to feel Alfred shouldn't be put on the Eastern pedestal because they haven't lost. It is a valid point to question the strength of the teams they have played because those teams are not very good. dlip's exception here is the Pride because he feels they are much improved from 08 and a decent team. Hence, he was quite impressed with the Saxons convincing W on Sat over Springfield and believes that with that victory they deserve consideration as being one of the top teams in the east. Yet, there is nothing wrong with questioning the reasons why many have The Saxons at the top of their list and looking for clarification about why people have them there.

Of course someone has the right... my point that you missed was if Alfred's praise is unworthy.... then who does he think deserves it... which he eventually answered ... thats all.  And I never said Alfred is the best in the East... I said NY

[dlippiel]

I wouldn't be too worried about "past prowess" when it comes to the seedings.  The NCAA made an undefeated Wabash the #1 seed in the North back in 2005 when Mount had lost to ONU in the regular season and Wabash doesn't have a playoff resume to trumpet.  They play in a less than average conference similar to the PAC and have done very little in the playoffs historically. 

If a true East Region team finishes 10-0, then I'd be shocked if MUC moves east.

I totally agree.

I also find it funny that everyone is anointing Alfred as the best team in the E8/East after beating a bunch of weak sisters, aside from Springfield.  In reality, what proof do we have that even Springfield is any good in '09.  Wins over Fitchburg St. & Kings don't impress me at all.....

ok... If you're so upset of people thinking Alfred is good.... Who do you think is the best in NY?  At least give an opinion if you're going to bash everyone elses

Who is bashing? Doesn't someone have the right to feel Alfred shouldn't be put on the Eastern pedestal because they haven't lost. It is a valid point to question the strength of the teams they have played because those teams are not very good. dlip's exception here is the Pride because he feels they are much improved from 08 and a decent team. Hence, he was quite impressed with the Saxons convincing W on Sat over Springfield and believes that with that victory they deserve consideration as being one of the top teams in the east. Yet, there is nothing wrong with questioning the reasons why many have The Saxons at the top of their list and looking for clarification about why people have them there.

Of course someone has the right... my point that you missed was if Alfred's praise is unworthy.... then who does he think deserves it... which he eventually answered ... thats all.  And I never said Alfred is the best in the East... I said NY

O.K. fair enough  .

[theoriginalupstate]

I said before camp even started that AU was my team to beat in the E8...

I think Secky separates them from the rest of the pack in the E8...

[gobombers15]

I said before camp even started that AU was my team to beat in the E8...

I think Secky separates them from the rest of the pack in the E8...

They still have to win at Ithaca, something they've never done in their history, IIRC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but good Alfred teams have lost to pretty good Bombers teams in the past. In both 2005 and 2007, Alfred came into Ithaca with a 7-1 record and walked out with double-digit losses (28-14 in '05, 42-25 in '07).

[theoriginalupstate]

I said before camp even started that AU was my team to beat in the E8...

I think Secky separates them from the rest of the pack in the E8...

They still have to win at Ithaca, something they've never done in their history, IIRC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but good Alfred teams have lost to pretty good Bombers teams in the past. In both 2005 and 2007, Alfred came into Ithaca with a 7-1 record and walked out with double-digit losses (28-14 in '05, 42-25 in '07).

Enlighten me on how that has an effect on this years game again?