FB: Empire 8

[sjfcards]

I feel like AU may be the class of the entire east region this year, but it can be tough to crack the top 25 when you are not a team that is around the top 25 year in and year out. Don't worry about AU, if they keep winning they will get there. I am sure they would all take a full season without entering the top 25 if they keep winning week after week.

Also tough when they have two of their toughest opponents still to come and both are on the road. Voters know what's next and some may be waiting to see what happens.

Kind of like RPI but with more votes.

I have to wonder though, how impressive will a victory at IC look to voters? They're currently not receiving any votes it the poll now--which means they're ranked out of the Top 50--and probably won't be getting many when Alfred comes to town. Frostburg is terrible and Springfield isn't getting much love either.

Fisher's also out of the Top 50 and I doubt topping a 3-3 Utica team at home would open anyone's eyes.

If beating a 4-1, #20 Ithaca doesn't move Fisher up, what would beating a 6-2 (or 5-3), un-ranked Ithaca team do for Alfred? Sure, you could argue that Fisher, unlike Alfred, wasn't high enough to merit Top 25 consideration when they beat IC, but doesn't that sort of prove that the voters aren't looking at SJF the same way they used to?

And look how far IC fell in the polls after losing to Fisher. At least 30 spots. It was an epic stomping they got, but that drop tells me the voters either: Weren't high on IC to give Fisher credit for the win and that they weren't high enough on Fisher to give IC a break on the loss.

So it makes me worry that even though IC and SJF are Alfred's two toughest teams and have good reputations, do the voters consider them good enough that wins over them will matter? Obviously, Alfred will move up, but will it be a drastic jump?

I think a lot of the rankings talk goes back to the parody in the league we all talked about at the start of the season. I would guess that a lot of voters are almost expecting the top teams in the E8 to beat on each other, and for all of them to have at least one loss. There is really not much to make them think otherwise. I agree with PC that with IC and Fisher yet to come for AU, it is a wait and see on how they will come out of those games. I think you are right bombers that each of those games on their own are not going to be enough to get AU a big jump, but if they can win both of those games in impressive fashion then I think that may be enough to move them up. A lot will depend on how the other teams ranked ahead of them do as well.

I think Pat's comment about seeing what AU does in the future also speaks to a bigger problem with college football at all levels. Rankings are by definition flawed. Voters do just what PC mentioned. They think teams will lose a game in the future, or teams don't lose that are ranked ahead of other teams so it really does not matter how impressive some teams are. Luckily in Division III we have a playoff system so rankings really don't matter to teams. Just win all your games and you will be able to play for a championship.

In DI football, the problem is when a team is ranked #1 or #2 preseason it is their championship to lose. So why would a Florida want to play a USC or a Texas on the road when they may lose a tough game and lose their chance to play for a BCS title (notice I did not say national title because I don't think the BCS gives us one). Meanwhile a team like Miami plays 4 highly ranked teams to start the season and they can not move up to the top spot. If Miami would have gone 4-0 to start the season against GTech, Florida State, Oklahoma, and VTech is they not the team that has done the most to earn a trip to the BCS title game? They didn't go 4-0, but if they had they still would have been ranked behind Florida, Texas, and Bama who have played only a few ranked teasm between all of them. Part of the problem is scheduling games 4 years in advance, and some of the problem is allowing teams to be ranked before we really know what they have (See Ole Miss). Just my two cents but it just seems like an obvious problem to me.

[wickfan]

Coming into today's game, Pep was concerned about TWO things.
First, how the heck can Pep make music without any musicians? and,
Second, how would AU's young secondary handle the Hawks' airing it out?

Both concerns were adequately addressed, at least from Pep's perspective.

1) Kaz00 and Pep made music albeit with a couple kazoos, a bass drum and cymbal. In fact, the dynamic duo introduced a new song/cheer to the band's repertoire that proved to be a real hit...Pennsylvania 6-5000. Today's performance actually served as a "Tenth Anniversary Retro Day" as the band went back to its roots...started as a kazoo band in 1999.

2) The AU secondary's play could best be summed up by Radley's first throw over the middle, about 20 yards downfield, when the Hawk receiver made the grab but was immediately separated from the ball by a jarring hit....don't know whether it was O'Brien or Currier. But it was perfectly timed and was a fitting start.

The AU offense was flawless in moving the ball and scoring in the first half, then during the second half displayed sloppy play with three turnovers in the third quarter alone. This could have been disastrous had it not been for a stellar defensive effort. The Saxon D rose to each adverse situation and put a stop to any Hawk scoring threats.

Pep was pleased with the crowd but missed the students. Pep only wishes AU could make a hard fast rule that it will NOT schedule any of its football games during Mid-Semester Break in the future....but realizes that just isn't likely.

Best of luck to the Hartwick Hawks the rest of the way!

P.S. Kudos to Vinson Hendrix....202 yards rushing today! If it's at all possible, Hendrix just keeps getting better each week. (#6 has gained more yards than the previous game in each of AU's first five games) Pep heard that the O-line was shooting for Hendrix to hit the 200 yard mark and today that was accomplished. Kudos to the O-Line!!

Pep,

Congrats on your victory....I was very impressed....I have some thoughts below....

First,  that first hit set the tone of the game on the pass over the middle. I thought Radley had a horrible game.  He had happy feet all day, even when he had not pressure. When he did hit somebody in the hands, we dropped it.

Defensively, not an excuse...but when I saw 53 and 91 go out in the first half due to injury, I knew we were in trouble. I was actually happy the defense dug in the second half and caused some turnovers and didn't quit. We just couldn't get a pass rush without 91 in there.  

I sure am glad we don't have to play against Harding and Manzer any longer. They have incredible speed and athletic ability.

What most impressed me about Alfred was the run defense. Running the ball has been a focus this year and until Saturday we were doing pretty well. Alfred shut us down. Many times Demulder broke through the line and looked like a big play, then the hole closed quickly and he was held to a two yard gain.  The LBs for Alfred played great.

If Alfred doesn't turn the ball over, they are going to be a tough out.

[Pat Coleman]

I think Pat's comment about seeing what AU does in the future also speaks to a bigger problem with college football at all levels. Rankings are by definition flawed. Voters do just what PC mentioned. They think teams will lose a game in the future, or teams don't lose that are ranked ahead of other teams so it really does not matter how impressive some teams are. Luckily in Division III we have a playoff system so rankings really don't matter to teams. Just win all your games and you will be able to play for a championship.

In this case I don't know if the voters think Alfred will lose those games in the future, however -- Alfred has more votes than either of those schools. We just know those are reasonable measuring sticks for Alfred whereas the teams Alfred has played so far may not be.

They think teams will lose a game in the future, or teams don't lose that are ranked ahead of other teams so it really does not matter how impressive some teams are.

By the way, I wanted to point out that that is basically the exact opposite of what our voters do with Alfred.

[AUPepBand]

Pep,

Congrats on your victory....I was very impressed....I have some thoughts below....

First,  that first hit set the tone of the game on the pass over the middle. I thought Radley had a horrible game.  He had happy feet all day, even when he had not pressure. When he did hit somebody in the hands, we dropped it.

Defensively, not an excuse...but when I saw 53 and 91 go out in the first half due to injury, I knew we were in trouble. I was actually happy the defense dug in the second half and caused some turnovers and didn't quit. We just couldn't get a pass rush without 91 in there.  

I sure am glad we don't have to play against Harding and Manzer any longer. They have incredible speed and athletic ability.

What most impressed me about Alfred was the run defense. Running the ball has been a focus this year and until Saturday we were doing pretty well. Alfred shut us down. Many times Demulder broke through the line and looked like a big play, then the hole closed quickly and he was held to a two yard gain.  The LBs for Alfred played great.

If Alfred doesn't turn the ball over, they are going to be a tough out.

Wickfan:

Wished you had stopped over to say hello. Kaz00 and Pep were pretty lonely on "the bandstand." Pep actually had one of our students (from Vermont who chose not to make the trip home) say he could hear the kazoos from across the field! Sorry we couldn't have had our "real" band there for your listening enjoyment. Pep has been real pleased this year...got a great group of student musicians....well, except one dubious character who only pretends to play trombone and also happens to read Post Patterns. 

At the D3 level, it's a rare team that can sustain its level of competition when injuries hit. Not all programs have 250 athletes. Pep thinks Coach Murray has done a fine job of building up the program so that when the injury bug hits, he's got some great kids waiting in the wings. Hope 53 and 91 can bounce back...there's lots of football yet to be played in the Empire 8.

It was good to see some Hartwick fans made the trip. Perhaps Pep will see you at the cage next year, wickfan? Again, best of luck to the Hawks the rest of the way!

[superman57]

Fisher does not deserve to be ranked yet... they got smoked badly by Mount, lost to Salsbury, and barley beat UofR... I think the Fisher beating of Ithaca is more about, how troubled Ithaca is than how good Fisher is

[maxpower]

Fisher does not deserve to be ranked yet... they got smoked badly by Mount, lost to Salsbury, and barley beat UofR... I think the Fisher beating of Ithaca is more about, how troubled Ithaca is than how good Fisher is

Holy crap, could ya tell that to 82?? If he hasn't had a heart attack yet?

[superman57]

I reserve the right to change my mind on how fisher does the rest of the season... but a two loss team that has played only 5 games... does not deserve a top 25 rating yet... let's see what happens vs. the fighting freds

[theoriginalupstate]

I reserve the right to change my mind on how fisher does the rest of the season... but a two loss team that has played only 5 games... does not deserve a top 25 rating yet... let's see what happens vs. the fighting freds

Agree, Fisher hasn't been consistent the past year and a half, no one knows what kind of game you are going to get from them week in and week out...

The pride that 82 shows is admirable but sometimes you gotta take a step back and look at stuff...

The ass kicking of IC was great but it doesn't prove anything...

[Bombers798891]

I reserve the right to change my mind on how fisher does the rest of the season... but a two loss team that has played only 5 games... does not deserve a top 25 rating yet... let's see what happens vs. the fighting freds

Agree, Fisher hasn't been consistent the past year and a half, no one knows what kind of game you are going to get from them week in and week out...

The pride that 82 shows is admirable but sometimes you gotta take a step back and look at stuff...

The ass kicking of IC was great but it doesn't prove anything...

How depressing is that last line for Bomber fans to deal with? Sigh...

[JQV]

How depressing is that last line for Bomber fans to deal with? Sigh...

It'd be more depressing if Tebow hadn't walked on water at LSU Saterda night.  That really salvaged the weekend for me at least.

[wickfan]

Pep,

Congrats on your victory....I was very impressed....I have some thoughts below....

First,  that first hit set the tone of the game on the pass over the middle. I thought Radley had a horrible game.  He had happy feet all day, even when he had not pressure. When he did hit somebody in the hands, we dropped it.

Defensively, not an excuse...but when I saw 53 and 91 go out in the first half due to injury, I knew we were in trouble. I was actually happy the defense dug in the second half and caused some turnovers and didn't quit. We just couldn't get a pass rush without 91 in there.  

I sure am glad we don't have to play against Harding and Manzer any longer. They have incredible speed and athletic ability.

What most impressed me about Alfred was the run defense. Running the ball has been a focus this year and until Saturday we were doing pretty well. Alfred shut us down. Many times Demulder broke through the line and looked like a big play, then the hole closed quickly and he was held to a two yard gain.  The LBs for Alfred played great.

If Alfred doesn't turn the ball over, they are going to be a tough out.

Wickfan:

Wished you had stopped over to say hello. Kaz00 and Pep were pretty lonely on "the bandstand." Pep actually had one of our students (from Vermont who chose not to make the trip home) say he could hear the kazoos from across the field! Sorry we couldn't have had our "real" band there for your listening enjoyment. Pep has been real pleased this year...got a great group of student musicians....well, except one dubious character who only pretends to play trombone and also happens to read Post Patterns. 

At the D3 level, it's a rare team that can sustain its level of competition when injuries hit. Not all programs have 250 athletes. Pep thinks Coach Murray has done a fine job of building up the program so that when the injury bug hits, he's got some great kids waiting in the wings. Hope 53 and 91 can bounce back...there's lots of football yet to be played in the Empire 8.

It was good to see some Hartwick fans made the trip. Perhaps Pep will see you at the cage next year, wickfan? Again, best of luck to the Hawks the rest of the way!

Pep,

I should have contacted you....this was a last minute trip. I was suppose to scout for our varsity HS team and at the last minute I had someone take my place.

We will set up a meeting next year at the cage.....Good luck to Alfred....

[maxpower]

Here's how Max sees the E8 right now:

1 Alfred (2-0, 5-0)
2 Fisher (1-0, 3-2)
3 Springfield (1-1, 4-1)
4 Ithaca (2-1, 4-2)
5 Hartwick (0-2, 4-2)
6 Utica (0-2, 3-3)

I think the only real arguable point in there is Fisher/Springfield... Fisher gets the benefit of the doubt with a stomp in their one conference game. Springfield goes in over IC for a much larger margin of victory vs. Utica. Hartwick gets in over Utica.... basically because of history, gonna be honest. But UC could show us something @ Fisher on Saterday....

At least the E8 seems to be representin' out of conference...

[maxpower]

In related news, there was a story that Fisher played so well on Saterday because of a new training system recommended by the coaches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpXPCJUC2Kw

[SaintsFAN]

How depressing is that last line for Bomber fans to deal with? Sigh...

It'd be more depressing if Tebow hadn't walked on water at LSU Saterda night.  That really salvaged the weekend for me at least.

What level of pisstivity was JQV near when the 1st half was over and they hadn't allowed Tebow to carry the ball up the middle yet?   

[SJFF82]

Fisher does not deserve to be ranked yet... they got smoked badly by Mount, lost to Salsbury, and barley beat UofR... I think the Fisher beating of Ithaca is more about, how troubled Ithaca is than how good Fisher is

Holy crap, could ya tell that to 82?? If he hasn't had a heart attack yet?

Ha...see you do think Ithaca sucks "badder" than a "bad" SJF....YET YOU ACCUSE ME OF TAKING YOU OUT OF CONTEXT ON THE THREAD I STARTED....UUUUUGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....note....this is 82's secretary....we just found him dead of a heart attack slumped over this keyboard...he was holding a Fisher #1 foam hand and his face was painted burgundy and gold...RIP 82