FB: Empire 8

[AUKaz00]

This has nothing to do with football, but anyone who's ever been to Mayberry will be interested to know that the Alfred Sports Center building, which included three small storefronts on Main Street and the liquor store on West University Street, burned to the ground this morning, the fire having been called in at about 6:30 a.m. Firefighters were successful in preventing the fire from spreading to the adjacent building that houses the Collegiate Restaurant.

The c. 1820s wood frame construction building included upstairs apartments where nine Alfred University students and two Alfred State College students resided. No one was hurt. All escaped the blaze but lost all their possessions.

Devastating loss for the Curran Family of Alfred, who at one time operated Happy Valley Ski Center and continues its "Skimeister" shop at the Swain Ski Center, the Currans only recently having moved all their ski merchandise to their shop at Swain. The business sold sporting goods but created a real niche with its t-shirt silk screen printing and printing of vinyl banners...where AU Pep Band had its banner made.

Anyone traveling near Alfred will be halted from proceeding up Main Street. The entire block is shut down at least for today.

Sad day in Mayberry.  We may need a win by the Saxons on Saterday to pick us up.

[Bombers798891]

I think it's about the same.

You dont think its more painful to lose at home than on the road?  Or if rephrased ... you dont think a loss at home is more damaging than a loss on the road?

Of course not...if it makes Ithaca look good and Hartwick look bad...then throw out all conventional wisdom and say whatever feels right.

Like you, I have been saying it for over a year now.  Wick losses to Curry on the road, it's the worse loss ever...Ithaca losses to Curry at home, and all of a sudden Curry has "arrived".  No big deal...just the way things are.

You going to the Wick-UC game this weekend?

BoSox: I've experienced heartbreaking losses at home (game 7 '04 ALCS, Cortaca '03, '05) and on the road (a-rod-varitek brawl game '04, fisher-IC '06). They feel about the same. It's probably worse on the road because all the home fans are so happy. Maybe it feels different for players, I don't know.

Yanks: Get over the inferiority complex. I think the Ithaca loss was WORSE than the Hartwick loss. Curry is still Curry.

What complex?  I just said it wasn't a big deal...but that is the perception.  Your earlier post suggested it as well.

That is the perception. Because it's true. As a football program since they returned, Hartwick's been inferior to Ithaca. That may irritate Wick people, but it'd be no different if we were comparing Ithaca and Rowan over the past 10 years.

Look, the Wick is 8 games over .500 in the d3.com era (since 1999). Ithaca is 58 games over. Ithaca's gone 7-1 against the Hawks in the last eight years. The Hawks made the playoffs once. Ithaca's made it five times.

Why do we have to pretend that the two programs are equal? They're not. Year-in, year-out, Ithaca's a better program. And because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight. That's the way it works in sports. Things don't always exist in a one-year vacuum. Opinions tend to be made based information from multiple years.

Yes, technically we're comparing 2007 Wick to 2008 Ithaca, and on just that, we could debate endlessly. But for a lot of people, it's the name that draws attention to it.

What are you talking about?  I never said that Wick and Ithaca are equal.  Not even close.  From a program standpoint, we hope to get where Ithaca is.  No one is disputing that...especially me.

I only said in general the loss Curry playoff "losses" were treated completely different.  No one can dispute that.

I'll restate it again: Because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight

[Yanks 99]

I think it's about the same.

You dont think its more painful to lose at home than on the road?  Or if rephrased ... you dont think a loss at home is more damaging than a loss on the road?

Of course not...if it makes Ithaca look good and Hartwick look bad...then throw out all conventional wisdom and say whatever feels right.

Like you, I have been saying it for over a year now.  Wick losses to Curry on the road, it's the worse loss ever...Ithaca losses to Curry at home, and all of a sudden Curry has "arrived".  No big deal...just the way things are.

You going to the Wick-UC game this weekend?

BoSox: I've experienced heartbreaking losses at home (game 7 '04 ALCS, Cortaca '03, '05) and on the road (a-rod-varitek brawl game '04, fisher-IC '06). They feel about the same. It's probably worse on the road because all the home fans are so happy. Maybe it feels different for players, I don't know.

Yanks: Get over the inferiority complex. I think the Ithaca loss was WORSE than the Hartwick loss. Curry is still Curry.

What complex?  I just said it wasn't a big deal...but that is the perception.  Your earlier post suggested it as well.

That is the perception. Because it's true. As a football program since they returned, Hartwick's been inferior to Ithaca. That may irritate Wick people, but it'd be no different if we were comparing Ithaca and Rowan over the past 10 years.

Look, the Wick is 8 games over .500 in the d3.com era (since 1999). Ithaca is 58 games over. Ithaca's gone 7-1 against the Hawks in the last eight years. The Hawks made the playoffs once. Ithaca's made it five times.

Why do we have to pretend that the two programs are equal? They're not. Year-in, year-out, Ithaca's a better program. And because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight. That's the way it works in sports. Things don't always exist in a one-year vacuum. Opinions tend to be made based information from multiple years.

Yes, technically we're comparing 2007 Wick to 2008 Ithaca, and on just that, we could debate endlessly. But for a lot of people, it's the name that draws attention to it.

What are you talking about?  I never said that Wick and Ithaca are equal.  Not even close.  From a program standpoint, we hope to get where Ithaca is.  No one is disputing that...especially me.

I only said in general the loss Curry playoff "losses" were treated completely different.  No one can dispute that.

I'll restate it again: Because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight

If you put it in double bold, yell it while you are typing, all while reminding yourself that 1991 was the best year ever...then I will probably get it.

[Bombers798891]

Right, but I dont think most people think the other way around either.   That was my point.

The IC loss being more embarrassing was the only point I was trying to make.  Generally though, it isn't perceived that way.

It seemed like your point was that other people thought the loss was worse.  Which I still disagree with.  I think people were more shocked at the Ithaca score, even with the backup quarterback in the game.

Injuries are part of the game...that QB had pretty much been playing for the last 6 games before then...including Cortaca.  You can't make excuses on that.  Wick gets ripped for giving up big points to Brockport...but no one mentions that Tomaino, the starting ILB, and the starting FS were out by the end of the first series...and they shouldn't.

I think people were shocked at the IC score...but no one really rubbed it in or gave them too much grief.  Wick got hammered.  There is absolutely no disputing that.  Personally, because of all the reasons that you gave, the IC loss to Curry, at home, is way more embarrassing.

Not six games. Grastorf started ONE game prior to that. Cortaca. He'd only attempted 66 passes prior to the playoff game. I agree that the IC loss is more embarrassing, but Grastorf hadn't really played at all prior to that loss.

It wouldn't have mattered though. Juvan was limited and wasn't having a good year anyway. The Bombers didn't loss that game because of injuries. As you said, Grastorf played Cortland. If he was good enough to beat them he was good enough to beat Curry.

[Bombers798891]

I think it's about the same.

You dont think its more painful to lose at home than on the road?  Or if rephrased ... you dont think a loss at home is more damaging than a loss on the road?

Of course not...if it makes Ithaca look good and Hartwick look bad...then throw out all conventional wisdom and say whatever feels right.

Like you, I have been saying it for over a year now.  Wick losses to Curry on the road, it's the worse loss ever...Ithaca losses to Curry at home, and all of a sudden Curry has "arrived".  No big deal...just the way things are.

You going to the Wick-UC game this weekend?

BoSox: I've experienced heartbreaking losses at home (game 7 '04 ALCS, Cortaca '03, '05) and on the road (a-rod-varitek brawl game '04, fisher-IC '06). They feel about the same. It's probably worse on the road because all the home fans are so happy. Maybe it feels different for players, I don't know.

Yanks: Get over the inferiority complex. I think the Ithaca loss was WORSE than the Hartwick loss. Curry is still Curry.

What complex?  I just said it wasn't a big deal...but that is the perception.  Your earlier post suggested it as well.

That is the perception. Because it's true. As a football program since they returned, Hartwick's been inferior to Ithaca. That may irritate Wick people, but it'd be no different if we were comparing Ithaca and Rowan over the past 10 years.

Look, the Wick is 8 games over .500 in the d3.com era (since 1999). Ithaca is 58 games over. Ithaca's gone 7-1 against the Hawks in the last eight years. The Hawks made the playoffs once. Ithaca's made it five times.

Why do we have to pretend that the two programs are equal? They're not. Year-in, year-out, Ithaca's a better program. And because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight. That's the way it works in sports. Things don't always exist in a one-year vacuum. Opinions tend to be made based information from multiple years.

Yes, technically we're comparing 2007 Wick to 2008 Ithaca, and on just that, we could debate endlessly. But for a lot of people, it's the name that draws attention to it.

What are you talking about?  I never said that Wick and Ithaca are equal.  Not even close.  From a program standpoint, we hope to get where Ithaca is.  No one is disputing that...especially me.

I only said in general the loss Curry playoff "losses" were treated completely different.  No one can dispute that.

I'll restate it again: Because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight

If you put it in double bold, yell it while you are typing, all while reminding yourself that 1991 was the best year ever...then I will probably get it.

Only if you stop staring at Boltus' photo while replaying the fake punt that led to your one win over Ithaca. Otherwise you'll just be distracted

[JQV]

If you put it in double bold, yell it while you are typing, all while reminding yourself that 1991 was the best year ever...then I will probably get it.

Said the guy whose signature proudly trumpets a two-year old E8 title won on a tie-breaker...

[Yanks 99]

I think it's about the same.

You dont think its more painful to lose at home than on the road?  Or if rephrased ... you dont think a loss at home is more damaging than a loss on the road?

Of course not...if it makes Ithaca look good and Hartwick look bad...then throw out all conventional wisdom and say whatever feels right.

Like you, I have been saying it for over a year now.  Wick losses to Curry on the road, it's the worse loss ever...Ithaca losses to Curry at home, and all of a sudden Curry has "arrived".  No big deal...just the way things are.

You going to the Wick-UC game this weekend?

BoSox: I've experienced heartbreaking losses at home (game 7 '04 ALCS, Cortaca '03, '05) and on the road (a-rod-varitek brawl game '04, fisher-IC '06). They feel about the same. It's probably worse on the road because all the home fans are so happy. Maybe it feels different for players, I don't know.

Yanks: Get over the inferiority complex. I think the Ithaca loss was WORSE than the Hartwick loss. Curry is still Curry.

What complex?  I just said it wasn't a big deal...but that is the perception.  Your earlier post suggested it as well.

That is the perception. Because it's true. As a football program since they returned, Hartwick's been inferior to Ithaca. That may irritate Wick people, but it'd be no different if we were comparing Ithaca and Rowan over the past 10 years.

Look, the Wick is 8 games over .500 in the d3.com era (since 1999). Ithaca is 58 games over. Ithaca's gone 7-1 against the Hawks in the last eight years. The Hawks made the playoffs once. Ithaca's made it five times.

Why do we have to pretend that the two programs are equal? They're not. Year-in, year-out, Ithaca's a better program. And because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight. That's the way it works in sports. Things don't always exist in a one-year vacuum. Opinions tend to be made based information from multiple years.

Yes, technically we're comparing 2007 Wick to 2008 Ithaca, and on just that, we could debate endlessly. But for a lot of people, it's the name that draws attention to it.

What are you talking about?  I never said that Wick and Ithaca are equal.  Not even close.  From a program standpoint, we hope to get where Ithaca is.  No one is disputing that...especially me.

I only said in general the loss Curry playoff "losses" were treated completely different.  No one can dispute that.

I'll restate it again: Because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight

If you put it in double bold, yell it while you are typing, all while reminding yourself that 1991 was the best year ever...then I will probably get it.

Only if you stop staring at Boltus' photo while replaying the fake punt that led to your one win over Ithaca. Otherwise you'll just be distracted

Get it right...I am staring at real life cut out of a live action play of Boltus, with all TV's in my house showing nothing but his highlights, and "Hartwick Hawks 2007 Empire 8 Champs" tatooed across my stomach like Tupac's "Thug Life"...sheesh...

[Yanks 99]

If you put it in double bold, yell it while you are typing, all while reminding yourself that 1991 was the best year ever...then I will probably get it.

Said the guy whose signature proudly trumpets a two-year old E8 title won on a tie-breaker...

I forgot we don't count championships others don't think we are worthy of.

[Bombers798891]

I think it's about the same.

You dont think its more painful to lose at home than on the road?  Or if rephrased ... you dont think a loss at home is more damaging than a loss on the road?

Of course not...if it makes Ithaca look good and Hartwick look bad...then throw out all conventional wisdom and say whatever feels right.

Like you, I have been saying it for over a year now.  Wick losses to Curry on the road, it's the worse loss ever...Ithaca losses to Curry at home, and all of a sudden Curry has "arrived".  No big deal...just the way things are.

You going to the Wick-UC game this weekend?

BoSox: I've experienced heartbreaking losses at home (game 7 '04 ALCS, Cortaca '03, '05) and on the road (a-rod-varitek brawl game '04, fisher-IC '06). They feel about the same. It's probably worse on the road because all the home fans are so happy. Maybe it feels different for players, I don't know.

Yanks: Get over the inferiority complex. I think the Ithaca loss was WORSE than the Hartwick loss. Curry is still Curry.

What complex?  I just said it wasn't a big deal...but that is the perception.  Your earlier post suggested it as well.

That is the perception. Because it's true. As a football program since they returned, Hartwick's been inferior to Ithaca. That may irritate Wick people, but it'd be no different if we were comparing Ithaca and Rowan over the past 10 years.

Look, the Wick is 8 games over .500 in the d3.com era (since 1999). Ithaca is 58 games over. Ithaca's gone 7-1 against the Hawks in the last eight years. The Hawks made the playoffs once. Ithaca's made it five times.

Why do we have to pretend that the two programs are equal? They're not. Year-in, year-out, Ithaca's a better program. And because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight. That's the way it works in sports. Things don't always exist in a one-year vacuum. Opinions tend to be made based information from multiple years.

Yes, technically we're comparing 2007 Wick to 2008 Ithaca, and on just that, we could debate endlessly. But for a lot of people, it's the name that draws attention to it.

What are you talking about?  I never said that Wick and Ithaca are equal.  Not even close.  From a program standpoint, we hope to get where Ithaca is.  No one is disputing that...especially me.

I only said in general the loss Curry playoff "losses" were treated completely different.  No one can dispute that.

I'll restate it again: Because the programs are not equal, wins over the two teams do not carry equal weight

If you put it in double bold, yell it while you are typing, all while reminding yourself that 1991 was the best year ever...then I will probably get it.

Only if you stop staring at Boltus' photo while replaying the fake punt that led to your one win over Ithaca. Otherwise you'll just be distracted

Get it right...I am staring at real life cut out of a live action play of Boltus, with all TV's in my house showing nothing but his highlights, and "Hartwick Hawks 2007 Empire 8 Champs" tatooed across my stomach like Tupac's "Thug Life"...sheesh...

K+ that's awesome

[union89]

So no one's concerned that Salisbury and Frostberg are probably one (or two) and done for that new mid-atlantic conference and there's suspicion that Springfield might not be in for the long haul?  That, worst case scenario leaves five schools and no logical programs to pick up.  

The LL may have the same issue if MMA or WPI were to bounce, but there's been at least rumors that RIT may revive their football program.  I think WPI's in the for long haul because of a relationship with RPI, but I could be wrong.  I don't get MMA, but other than the NEFC or NJAC, they don't have anywhere to go (NJAC aint happening unless they drop the three suny's).  The only nice thing for the LL is that the core five schools (Roch, Bart, SLU, RPI, Union) all have 50+ year histories together that I'm pretty sure they'd maintain at all costs (unless RPI somehow thinks they can move up to 1-AA, but I don't see that happening).    

BTW, I suspect Frostberg could finish above two teams in the E8 when they join, but we'll see.  They were 3-6 last year, but played five playoff teams and beat Brockport by two touchdowns.  I could absolutely see them being ahead of Utica and Hartwick and will be better than Norwich.  That's down the road and a lot can happen between now and then though. 

PA, good point about defections.  The LL let in Susquehanna and is now left with mud on their face.  If the LL had accepted Ithaca, I think the Bombers would have been in the LL long term and also hurt the E8 tremendously.  The decision to pass on Ithaca and accept the likes of Bard is very frustrating.  As one of the Hobart guys said, this decision had zero to do with football.

[union89]

Generally though, it isn't perceived that way.

By who?  Everyone keeps agreeing with you.  This argument is so confusing that I'd suspect 82/Ty was onto a third name if you hadn't been around before...

+1....my head hurts and I have totally lost focus of this debate.

[union89]

Right, but I dont think most people think the other way around either.   That was my point.

The IC loss being more embarrassing was the only point I was trying to make.  Generally though, it isn't perceived that way.

It seemed like your point was that other people thought the loss was worse.  Which I still disagree with.  I think people were more shocked at the Ithaca score, even with the backup quarterback in the game.

Injuries are part of the game...that QB had pretty much been playing for the last 6 games before then...including Cortaca.  You can't make excuses on that.  Wick gets ripped for giving up big points to Brockport...but no one mentions that Tomaino, the starting ILB, and the starting FS were out by the end of the first series...and they shouldn't.

I think people were shocked at the IC score...but no one really rubbed it in or gave them too much grief.  Wick got hammered.  There is absolutely no disputing that.  Personally, because of all the reasons that you gave, the IC loss to Curry, at home, is way more embarrassing.

Not six games. Grastorf started ONE game prior to that. Cortaca. He'd only attempted 66 passes prior to the playoff game. I agree that the IC loss is more embarrassing, but Grastorf hadn't really played at all prior to that loss.

It wouldn't have mattered though. Juvan was limited and wasn't having a good year anyway. The Bombers didn't loss that game because of injuries. As you said, Grastorf played Cortland. If he was good enough to beat them he was good enough to beat Curry.

I honestly thought that I could have played QB for Ithaca and won that game.  Prior to the game, I thought Ithaca would run the ball straight at 'Dem Spicy Boys and dominate the LOS and in the process wear them down.  I was shocked that DSB's were even competing with Ithaca that day....regardless of the QB.

In my mind, on that day, DSB's produced the biggest upset in the history of Eastern D3 football.

[sjfcards]

Wouldn't the addition of Frostburg St and Salisbury St hurt the conference? It is almost as if a cupcake in Norwich leaves and two cupcakes arrive. Won't this allow for one less OOC game each year for the E8 as well?

Salisbury is not a cupcake.

I think all Fisher fans would agree with that.

[Saxon73]

Wow, what a night... just tuned in

[Saxon73]

SJF Guys,

What do think is the scoop on AU v Rochacha ?listening to Chuck Mangione as I "speak" ?