FB: Empire 8

[Frank Rossi]

Ultimately, when an embarrassing scenario plays out like this, it's a lot smarter for the individuals who control the situation to face the media if there is nothing to hide.  

Looks to me like Coach Welch talked to both Brian Delaney and The Ithacan.  Both papers are media, right?

Maybe your problem is that Coach Welch doesn't think your internet show counts as legitimate media?

That's why we sent the messages to Mike Warwick, SID of Ithaca, who knows of our work -- we cc'd Coach Welch, but communicated through Mike Warwick, as is the process for "legitimate media."  

Comments attached to online news articles may not be considered "legitimate media" either, but they can do a lot more to help or hurt a situation than "legitimate media" in the first place.  

After the initial article in the Ithaca Journal was released is the point at which I suggest things haven't been handled well, Jose.  Taking that one line you quoted out of context leaves out that I acknowledge what Welch said to Delaney last week and after the SLU game.  What hasn't been done by the program is the people in charge giving much public confidence or support for the players involved after comments came out suggesting the severity of the issue (whether the suggestions were right or wrong -- I have no idea, and hence why the question about the players' availability this Saturday was something relevant in my mind and others'). 

[bomber3]

My comments were misconstrued.  I meant how the school handled it with the media not how the media delivered it.

[Frank Rossi]

My comments were misconstrued.  I meant how the school handled it with the media not how the media delivered it.

I figured that's what you meant -- I wasn't trying to go Frank Rossi on you specifically, but I wanted to give my take on the issue since it's not the last time we're going to see a program having to do damage control unfortunately.  I'm curious, though, how YOU feel it could've been handled better.

[Jonny Utah]

Ultimately, when an embarrassing scenario plays out like this, it's a lot smarter for the individuals who control the situation to face the media if there is nothing to hide.  

Looks to me like Coach Welch talked to both Brian Delaney and The Ithacan.  Both papers are media, right?

Maybe your problem is that Coach Welch doesn't think your internet show counts as legitimate media?

That's why we sent the messages to Mike Warwick, SID of Ithaca, who knows of our work -- we cc'd Coach Welch, but communicated through Mike Warwick, as is the process for "legitimate media."  

Comments attached to online news articles may not be considered "legitimate media" either, but they can do a lot more to help or hurt a situation than "legitimate media" in the first place.  

After the initial article in the Ithaca Journal was released is the point at which I suggest things haven't been handled well, Jose.  Taking that one line you quoted out of context leaves out that I acknowledge what Welch said to Delaney last week and after the SLU game.  What hasn't been done by the program is the people in charge giving much public confidence or support for the players involved after comments came out suggesting the severity of the issue (whether the suggestions were right or wrong -- I have no idea, and hence why the question about the players' availability this Saturday was something relevant in my mind and others'). 

I don't think anonymous online comments really hurt the image of the school or are a reflection of how the school handled the situation.  The school could have said it was or wansn't a hazing issue and I would bet the comments would have been the same.  Even the comments that I read on the Journal (about 25) weren't really the typical inane nonsense that you might see on a major newspapers online forum (see the Boston Globe or Boston Herald comment section for real garbage).  I thought a lot of the comments on the Ithaca page were supporters of the program, and/or people who had legitimate points or thoughts regarding the issue.

This might simply be a case where some team rules were broken, and the players were suspended.  One game suspensions are not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  As far as we know, that is all that happened.

[AUKaz00]

...and Pep is still waiting for a fan poll...   

Ask and ye shall receive...

[union89]

Random tangent: I really hate the "Booga Booga" chant. Maybe I'm growing bitter and jaded, but at the very least, save it for meaningful times. Bust it out in the 4th quarter against Cortland. Or when you take a lead late in a game. Or maybe 15 years from now when we host another NCAA game.

But I hate hearing it in games Ithaca's up 40 points in the 3rd quarter against Utica or Frostburg. I know, I've turned into Johnny Sportsmanship over here, but I'm wondering, what do other people think?

Pep has always hated the "Booga Booga" chant but mostly because it's another confirmation that Pep's Saxons have just gotten scored on.

While on the topic of sportsmanship, should the Pep Band NOT play the fight song on a Saxon score when AU is up by 30? At what point does one lay aside such a tradition in deference to sportsmanship?

Pep, with all due respect, a school fight song from a school founded in 1836 and a chant of mostly gibberish, directed less in celebration, and more in mocking, do not equate in my book.

The last line of the chant, which is now, "Rah, rah, rah, rah" used to be "Ha, ha, ha, ha" before they were told to change it. Play the school fight song. Chant "Let's go Bombers!! (Or Saxons)" But this chant is not the same thing

I always found the chant rather arrogant, personally.  And, this is not a hit at Ithaca, but I just don't think their program is nearly as dominant anymore to be able to back up that arrogance.

Yea the chant is a little stupid but come on.  I never even knew the opposing side could even hear the chant.

I don't know how it is normally construed, but I remember the Ithaca game at RPI in 2001 and not only did the chant come off as arrogant, but they sent people to jump around in front of the RPI alumni screaming it trying to provoke us.  It was pretty classless.  But that obviously doesn't reflect the football program as much as some drunk idiot students.

You might be thinking of the first down people.  The booga booga chant is usually done by just one guy and he is usually on the ithaca side and turns around and cheers with only the IC people.  The first down club people will (or did) get in your face and taunt you.  They will also do their cheers from all parts of the field, including the home stands.

I don't know, i just remember a couple jerks jumping in our faces yelling 'BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA'.  They must not have liked our 'IC Dumb People' signs or something.

Maybe they didn't like you.

+1.....good one.

[sjfcards]

Kind of quiet in here tonight.

[bomber3]

My comments were misconstrued.  I meant how the school handled it with the media not how the media delivered it.

I figured that's what you meant -- I wasn't trying to go Frank Rossi on you specifically, but I wanted to give my take on the issue since it's not the last time we're going to see a program having to do damage control unfortunately.  I'm curious, though, how YOU feel it could've been handled better.

It could have been handled better by clarifying the facts to limit speculation and limit the players' names getting dragged through the mud.  The rampant speculation surrounding hazing are simply not true and any manner in which the administration handled it while avoiding the speculation and damage to the players' reputations would have been better (internal suspensions, one quarter or series suspension, community service, NO punishment, clarifying the facts, etc.).  The fact such a severe punishment was handed down to such a wide base without ANY explanation feeds/fed the media fire, and rightfully so.

[sjfcards]

Typically, when facing a damage control situation, I think people and organizations are much better off when they just explain exactly what happened, explain how they are dealing with the situation, and what they are doing to ensure a similar error will not become a problem in the future. I think IC missed step 1 and 3 in that process.

When the story is not released to the press or the public, it appears that you may be hiding something. In my experience, people will find out what happened, and you look a lot worse when you have to back track or have to keep rehashing old issues when new information surfaces. Americans are are typically very forgiving. Just give us the story, and we will all move on.

[Jonny Utah]

Typically, when facing a damage control situation, I think people and organizations are much better off when they just explain exactly what happened, explain how they are dealing with the situation, and what they are doing to ensure a similar error will not become a problem in the future. I think IC missed step 1 and 3 in that process.

When the story is not released to the press or the public, it appears that you may be hiding something. In my experience, people will find out what happened, and you look a lot worse when you have to back track or have to keep rehashing old issues when new information surfaces. Americans are are typically very forgiving. Just give us the story, and we will all move on.

What if the story is embarrassing to the victim though?  I also get the sense that what happend here is so silly, it's probably better for the school to just say players got suspended and that's it.  If it was hazing or something illegal, you can bet Coach Welch would have notified the police, or kicked players off the team per school policy.  He doesn't mess around with stuff like that.  Maybe its no ones business as to what happened? 

[sjfcards]

Typically, when facing a damage control situation, I think people and organizations are much better off when they just explain exactly what happened, explain how they are dealing with the situation, and what they are doing to ensure a similar error will not become a problem in the future. I think IC missed step 1 and 3 in that process.

When the story is not released to the press or the public, it appears that you may be hiding something. In my experience, people will find out what happened, and you look a lot worse when you have to back track or have to keep rehashing old issues when new information surfaces. Americans are are typically very forgiving. Just give us the story, and we will all move on.

What if the story is embarrassing to the victim though?  I also get the sense that what happend here is so silly, it's probably better for the school to just say players got suspended and that's it.  If it was hazing or something illegal, you can bet Coach Welch would have notified the police, or kicked players off the team per school policy.  He doesn't mess around with stuff like that.  Maybe its no ones business as to what happened? 

I agree that privacy issues and individual feelings need to be considered. I am not saying that IC should explain in detail what happened to each of the players involved. Just own up to a less than flatering situation that went down, and explain how the school and team will move forward. If the violations were as minor as I have heard then I would suggest that IC was more than reasonable with their disciplinary actions. They realized there was a problem, and they went about fixing it. They should be proud of the coaching staff's willingness to teach life lessons as much as football.

In this situation I think IC would be better off saying: "Regarding suspensions to several players on the IC Football team, we are internally dealing with an incident of hazing within the football team. As an organization we have a 0 tolerance policy, and do not tolerate any type of hazing. Due to this policy, 1 game suspensions for each player involved in the incident have been handed out. Going forward we will make every effort to ensure that our players are educated about the issues and dangers of hazing." 

One paragraph to the papers and most of this goes away before it ever becomes and issue.

[Jonny Utah]

Typically, when facing a damage control situation, I think people and organizations are much better off when they just explain exactly what happened, explain how they are dealing with the situation, and what they are doing to ensure a similar error will not become a problem in the future. I think IC missed step 1 and 3 in that process.

When the story is not released to the press or the public, it appears that you may be hiding something. In my experience, people will find out what happened, and you look a lot worse when you have to back track or have to keep rehashing old issues when new information surfaces. Americans are are typically very forgiving. Just give us the story, and we will all move on.

What if the story is embarrassing to the victim though?  I also get the sense that what happend here is so silly, it's probably better for the school to just say players got suspended and that's it.  If it was hazing or something illegal, you can bet Coach Welch would have notified the police, or kicked players off the team per school policy.  He doesn't mess around with stuff like that.  Maybe its no ones business as to what happened? 

I agree that privacy issues and individual feelings need to be considered. I am not saying that IC should explain in detail what happened to each of the players involved. Just own up to a less than flatering situation that went down, and explain how the school and team will move forward. If the violations were as minor as I have heard then I would suggest that IC was more than reasonable with their disciplinary actions. They realized there was a problem, and they went about fixing it. They should be proud of the coaching staff's willingness to teach life lessons as much as football.

In this situation I think IC would be better off saying: "Regarding suspensions to several players on the IC Football team, we are internally dealing with an incident of hazing within the football team. As an organization we have a 0 tolerance policy, and do not tolerate any type of hazing. Due to this policy, 1 game suspensions for each player involved in the incident have been handed out. Going forward we will make every effort to ensure that our players are educated about the issues and dangers of hazing." 

One paragraph to the papers and most of this goes away before it ever becomes and issue.

Well first off, I think you are assuming that this is a hazing incident.  If this was a hazing incident, players would have been suspended more than one game.  Plus, if they used the word 'hazing' in a statement like you proposed, I'm willing to bet it would have been a bigger deal than you might think. 

Secondly, everything Coach Welch told the paper indicated to me that he did explain himself.  He said players broke rules and that players were suspended.  The fact that players were suspended already tells you that it was dealt with.  You don't have to have a press conference every time someone gets suspended or thrown off the team for breaking team or school rules.

[sjfcards]

I am assuming the incident was a hazing issue, and if that is not the case then the process for dealing with the fallout changes. It was my understanding after speaking with an IC employee that a "embarrassing" video was the center of the issue. If that is not the case then everything changes.

[Jonny Utah]

I am assuming the incident was a hazing issue, and if that is not the case then the process for dealing with the fallout changes. It was my understanding after speaking with an IC employee that a "embarrassing" video was the center of the issue. If that is not the case then everything changes.

Yea the whole definition of the word "hazing" can be taken different ways.  

I assume what goes on now at IC is the same that happend when I went there, which was the same which happend in 1975.  I am also going to bet the same type of things happen at probably 75% of college and pro programs.  Basically, players (sophmores and others which have special talents) have to do things that make the seniors laugh and lighten up camp.  I guess that is where the issue may have come up as well.  No one is forced to do it, and it was always in good/fun spirit when I was there.  I assume that this fun was videotaped, and that would be in poor taste in my opinion.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Enough of this incident people will not describe.  Instead, let us conduct a lucid conversation based on a worthwhile argument...something that is really divisive by nature since points could be made to support either side.  Obviously I am referring to this being the year Fisher dominates Mount Union. 


And discuss...