FB: Empire 8

[Pat Coleman]

Yeah...I'm still a bit confused on how Hartwick got brought up in all of this...as I never mentioned them or used them as any type of measuring stick for strength of the East Region.

Well, sorry if you're confused but Wesley-Hartwick is a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone and not getting a favorable response.

[Jonny Utah]

I would have given Boltus a chance against those Wesley teams back in the day.  The point is Hartwick should be looking for those opportunities.

[Yanks 99]

OK...where are the South Region teams lining up to play the East teams?  That works both ways you know...what evidence or facts do you have besides word of mouth that all of these "South Region" powers are lining up to play SJF, Ithaca, Rowan, Cortland, etc. and that these teams are turning them down to stick with "like-minded institutions" 

You're a Hartwick fan, right? Wesley has had to play nine-game schedules and play Gallaudet because you guys won't play them even though you have had mutual open dates. Wesley has proven with its regular-season schedule that it will take on all comers.

Wick and Wesley? Since when is Hartwick representative of good teams in the East? They're 24-18 in the last 4+ years.

Obviously, one of the best, if not THE best, team in the South could kill a mediocre East team. What does that prove? Wesley's gone 50-6 over the past 4+ years. It's not exactly two teams on the same level.

I was providing him with an example close to home that he could relate to. If Wesley's willing to go to Capital to play, I am sure they are willing to go to Ithaca or Hobart.

Now I'm going to address Yanks99: Delaware Valley gets tons of credit. They schedule strong and they represent against that schedule. I think their ranking speaks to that, doesn't it?

So their reward if they finish 9-1 would be to move over MUC to the East Bracket and give them the #2 seed???

[Yanks 99]

Yeah...I'm still a bit confused on how Hartwick got brought up in all of this...as I never mentioned them or used them as any type of measuring stick for strength of the East Region.

Well, sorry if you're confused but Wesley-Hartwick is a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone and not getting a favorable response.

Using Wesley looking to play Wick as "a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone" is not a good example.  That would be like MUC looking to play Becker and then using that as an example of them being willing to play anyone.  Hartwick and Wesley are not on the same level right now.

So if MUC was looking to play Becker, and they said no, that makes the entire East weak???

[Pat Coleman]

What is this East Bracket you speak of? That's part of the problem -- this isn't 1998 anymore. There are no artificial walls between regions. You should stop thinking of it as an East bracket, since it's clear from the past few years that the NCAA has stopped doing so.

[Yanks 99]

I would have given Boltus a chance against those Wesley teams back in the day.  The point is Hartwick should be looking for those opportunities.

I agree...I hope the new administration gets on board and allows them to schedule a tenth game next year.

[Pat Coleman]

Yeah...I'm still a bit confused on how Hartwick got brought up in all of this...as I never mentioned them or used them as any type of measuring stick for strength of the East Region.

Well, sorry if you're confused but Wesley-Hartwick is a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone and not getting a favorable response.

Using Wesley looking to play Wick as "a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone" is not a good example.  That would be like MUC looking to play Becker and then using that as an example of them being willing to play anyone.  Hartwick and Wesley are not on the same level right now.

So if MUC was looking to play Becker, and they said no, that makes the entire East weak???

Spare us all the ludicrous examples.

[Yanks 99]

What is this East Bracket you speak of? That's part of the problem -- this isn't 1998 anymore. There are no artificial walls between regions. You should stop thinking of it as an East bracket, since it's clear from the past few years that the NCAA has stopped doing so.

I understand the difference Pat.  Just using it as an example.  

[Yanks 99]

Yeah...I'm still a bit confused on how Hartwick got brought up in all of this...as I never mentioned them or used them as any type of measuring stick for strength of the East Region.

Well, sorry if you're confused but Wesley-Hartwick is a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone and not getting a favorable response.

Using Wesley looking to play Wick as "a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone" is not a good example.  That would be like MUC looking to play Becker and then using that as an example of them being willing to play anyone.  Hartwick and Wesley are not on the same level right now.

So if MUC was looking to play Becker, and they said no, that makes the entire East weak???

Spare us all the ludicrous examples.

I agree...that is a ludicrous example.  Kind of like saying that Wesley trying to schedule Wick is an example of them willing to play anyone.  They clearly are willing to do so...but them trying to schedule Wick is a terrible...or in your words...ludicrous example of them trying to do so.

And there it is..."spare us"...

[Jonny Utah]

OK...where are the South Region teams lining up to play the East teams?  That works both ways you know...what evidence or facts do you have besides word of mouth that all of these "South Region" powers are lining up to play SJF, Ithaca, Rowan, Cortland, etc. and that these teams are turning them down to stick with "like-minded institutions" 

You're a Hartwick fan, right? Wesley has had to play nine-game schedules and play Gallaudet because you guys won't play them even though you have had mutual open dates. Wesley has proven with its regular-season schedule that it will take on all comers.

Wick and Wesley? Since when is Hartwick representative of good teams in the East? They're 24-18 in the last 4+ years.

Obviously, one of the best, if not THE best, team in the South could kill a mediocre East team. What does that prove? Wesley's gone 50-6 over the past 4+ years. It's not exactly two teams on the same level.

I was providing him with an example close to home that he could relate to. If Wesley's willing to go to Capital to play, I am sure they are willing to go to Ithaca or Hobart.

Now I'm going to address Yanks99: Delaware Valley gets tons of credit. They schedule strong and they represent against that schedule. I think their ranking speaks to that, doesn't it?

So their reward if they finish 9-1 would be to move over MUC to the East Bracket and give them the #2 seed???

No their reward would be to make the playoffs after an 8-2 season.  If you go 8-2 but lose to a MAC team instead of Wesley or MUC you might not get that playoff chance.

But I think people are missing the big picture.  PBR mentioned the 2008 Del Vall team (I assume he was thinking about that team).  They went 8-3 by beating 2 good non conference south teams but lost 2 in conference games and a non league 1-aa game.  But the rest of their wins weren't blowouts or anything that might show voters that the team is great or has potential.

The 2007 Ithaca team did not beat any non-conference giants, but did roll over a lot of good eastern teams and that may have shown the committe that they deserved a shot.  So they went to Mt. Union in the first round and did better than anyone had did there that year (a great game too by the way).

So I don't think there is any secret formula here.  Sure those non conference games help you, but you need to put up some points, blow out the bad teams and average teams, and win some big games.  The committee seems to forgive one or even two abberations during the season.  The overall schedule usually tells you a lot about how good a team is though.

[Bombers798891]

Yeah...I'm still a bit confused on how Hartwick got brought up in all of this...as I never mentioned them or used them as any type of measuring stick for strength of the East Region.

Well, sorry if you're confused but Wesley-Hartwick is a good example of a strong South Region team lining up to play anyone and not getting a favorable response.

Yeah, but come on. Wesley's not exactly taking on a challenge playing Hartwick. It's a automatic win for them. The MUC/Becker one was dumb, but Hartwick's been the 4th-best (or 5th depending on where you stick the pride) in their own conference over the past five years. You're not exactly comparing apples and apples here

[fisheralum91]

Wait
didnt Pat mention wick v gaulladet not wesley?
im confused

[Yanks 99]

Wait
didnt Pat mention wick v gaulladet not wesley?
im confused

He was saying that Wesley had to play Gaulladet because they couldn't get Wick on the schedule.

[dlippiel]

But it doesn't change reality. Only what happens on the field can change reality.

You are correct on this Pat and dlip does not doubt his homerism plays a role but not as much of a role as you may think. Somewhere in between perspective lyes reality and dlip can readily admit his postion may not be perfectly there but he feels that you and others have made the east out to be the weakest region in the nation using the results of the NCAA's as your basis which happen to always run through MUC. Hence, since anyone on here would readily admit that MUC is not in any way representative of most of the 200 plus teams in division three that criteria that is not reality either.

Regarding scheduling dlip does agree to an extent. Scheduling tough OOC opponents will only help your program in most cases. Yet dlip does not see any North or South teams going out of their way either to schedule tough East Region teams. That point is moot until specific examples can be given and Wick Wesley is not a clear example.

[Bombers798891]

OK...where are the South Region teams lining up to play the East teams?  That works both ways you know...what evidence or facts do you have besides word of mouth that all of these "South Region" powers are lining up to play SJF, Ithaca, Rowan, Cortland, etc. and that these teams are turning them down to stick with "like-minded institutions" 

You're a Hartwick fan, right? Wesley has had to play nine-game schedules and play Gallaudet because you guys won't play them even though you have had mutual open dates. Wesley has proven with its regular-season schedule that it will take on all comers.

Wick and Wesley? Since when is Hartwick representative of good teams in the East? They're 24-18 in the last 4+ years.

Obviously, one of the best, if not THE best, team in the South could kill a mediocre East team. What does that prove? Wesley's gone 50-6 over the past 4+ years. It's not exactly two teams on the same level.

I was providing him with an example close to home that he could relate to. If Wesley's willing to go to Capital to play, I am sure they are willing to go to Ithaca or Hobart.

Now I'm going to address Yanks99: Delaware Valley gets tons of credit. They schedule strong and they represent against that schedule. I think their ranking speaks to that, doesn't it?

So their reward if they finish 9-1 would be to move over MUC to the East Bracket and give them the #2 seed???

No their reward would be to make the playoffs after an 8-2 season.  If you go 8-2 but lose to a MAC team instead of Wesley or MUC you might not get that playoff chance.

But I think people are missing the big picture.  PBR mentioned the 2008 Del Vall team (I assume he was thinking about that team).  They went 8-3 by beating 2 good non conference south teams but lost 2 in conference games and a non league 1-aa game.  But the rest of their wins weren't blowouts or anything that might show voters that the team is great or has potential.

The 2007 Ithaca team did not beat any non-conference giants, but did roll over a lot of good eastern teams and that may have shown the committe that they deserved a shot.  So they went to Mt. Union in the first round and did better than anyone had did there that year (a great game too by the way).

So I don't think there is any secret formula here.  Sure those non conference games help you, but you need to put up some points, blow out the bad teams and average teams, and win some big games.  The committee seems to forgive one or even two abberations during the season.  The overall schedule usually tells you a lot about how good a team is though.

Nice post. The 2007 Bombers are a good example. The 2003 Bombers also made it as a two-loss team. The 2001 team went 9-1 and was probably the last team in (In fact, I think this site thought Menlo would get in over them.) There's a balance to strike for sure