FB: Empire 8

[sjfcards]

I see the njac and the MAC r having a challenge next year. Any chance of a E8/LL challenge? Could be fun...

[maxpower]

Hey, AU and IC already played the LL champion this year plus one other opponent.... what you're telling me you don't believe we KNEW St. L would be LL champ when we scheduled them??

[Frank Rossi]

I see the njac and the MAC r having a challenge next year. Any chance of a E8/LL challenge? Could be fun...

Teams can't afford travel to Frostburg and Salisbury for their 10th games in many cases.  If those matchups aren't forced, then we're down to 5 or 6 matchups vs. 8 LL teams.  It won't fold over very easily.

[Old IC Voice]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

[Bombers798891]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, but this year is likely an aberration...last season there were two 8 win teams, the year before a 9, 8 and 7; 2006 saw four teams with at least 7, etc.

Better than playing Frostburg and Salisbury...

[Frank Rossi]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, I mean the #3 and #6 team beat your #1 team this year.  That LL conference must be really inferior.

[Pat Coleman]

The MAC-NJAC challenge starts in 2012, not next year.
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2010/11/mac-njac-challenge

[AUPepBand]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, I mean the #3 and #6 team beat your #1 team this year.  That LL conference must be really inferior.

Ouch! That salt in the wound stings just like them pesty Yellowjackets and those Wind Engineers!

On Saxon Warriors!

[dlippiel]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, I mean the #3 and #6 team beat your #1 team this year.  That LL conference must be really inferior.

+k on this. Some E8 posters should promptly remove the pole from their asses.

[Old IC Voice]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, I mean the #3 and #6 team beat your #1 team this year.  That LL conference must be really inferior.

+k on this. Some E8 posters should promptly remove the pole from their asses.

Yikes! I definitely did NOT anticipate this kind of backlash. Allow me to explain myself a bit further and, hopefully, a bit more politely.

To me, the reason the NJAC/MAC conference challenge works is because the power structure in those conferences is fairly similar (or at least it was this season). You've got a definitive top tier (NJAC: The three teams in position to go 9-1, MAC: DelVal, but you could also have made a case for Lycoming before the wheels fell off there). You've got a definitive middle tier (NJAC: TCNJ, Kean, Willy P, MAC: LebVal, Wilkes, Albright, and now Lyco). And then you've got the rest of the teams with whom you could get competitive matchups.

With the E8/LL, I'm not sure that's there. For this exercise, I'll go down the standings, and line everyone up by where they rank in their respective conferences.

The conference-wide buzz with, say, a C-State/DelVal matchup, for instance, wouldn't be there for this year's #1 E8/#1 LL, which'd be Alfred/St. Lawrence. #2/#2 is probably a slight edge to the E8/LL (Montclair/LebVal vs. Springfield/Hobart). #3/#3 would give a slight edge to the E8/LL (Rowan/Wilkes vs. Fisher/RPI). #4/#4 is a definite edge to NJAC/MAC (TCNJ/Lyco vs. IC/Merchant Marine? As an IC alum, I know I wouldn't care nearly as much given what Springfield did to those guys). #5/#5 is a slight edge to the NJAC/MAC, although both would be good games (Kean-Albright, Hartwick-UR). #6/#6 is probably a wash (Willy P-Widener, Utica-Union).

So what do we have here? In six comparisons, we have two definitive edges for the NJAC/MAC, as well as one slight edge. For the proposed E8/LL challenge, they get two slight edges (partly based on the football traditions at Hobart and RPI, two of the most well-known LL programs), nothing definitive.

This is strictly my opinion, but based on this, I don't think an E8/LL conference challenge works as well as the NJAC/MAC. If some disagree, you're more than welcome to your own beliefs. And if some feel like there's a pole in my rear end, well, I guess you've got the right to believe that, too.

[Jonny Utah]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, I mean the #3 and #6 team beat your #1 team this year.  That LL conference must be really inferior.

+k on this. Some E8 posters should promptly remove the pole from their asses.

Yikes! I definitely did NOT anticipate this kind of backlash. Allow me to explain myself a bit further and, hopefully, a bit more politely.

To me, the reason the NJAC/MAC conference challenge works is because the power structure in those conferences is fairly similar (or at least it was this season). You've got a definitive top tier (NJAC: The three teams in position to go 9-1, MAC: DelVal, but you could also have made a case for Lycoming before the wheels fell off there). You've got a definitive middle tier (NJAC: TCNJ, Kean, Willy P, MAC: LebVal, Wilkes, Albright, and now Lyco). And then you've got the rest of the teams with whom you could get competitive matchups.

With the E8/LL, I'm not sure that's there. For this exercise, I'll go down the standings, and line everyone up by where they rank in their respective conferences.

The conference-wide buzz with, say, a C-State/DelVal matchup, for instance, wouldn't be there for this year's #1 E8/#1 LL, which'd be Alfred/St. Lawrence. #2/#2 is probably a slight edge to the E8/LL (Montclair/LebVal vs. Springfield/Hobart). #3/#3 would give a slight edge to the E8/LL (Rowan/Wilkes vs. Fisher/RPI). #4/#4 is a definite edge to NJAC/MAC (TCNJ/Lyco vs. IC/Merchant Marine? As an IC alum, I know I wouldn't care nearly as much given what Springfield did to those guys). #5/#5 is a slight edge to the NJAC/MAC, although both would be good games (Kean-Albright, Hartwick-UR). #6/#6 is probably a wash (Willy P-Widener, Utica-Union).

So what do we have here? In six comparisons, we have two definitive edges for the NJAC/MAC, as well as one slight edge. For the proposed E8/LL challenge, they get two slight edges (partly based on the football traditions at Hobart and RPI, two of the most well-known LL programs), nothing definitive.

This is strictly my opinion, but based on this, I don't think an E8/LL conference challenge works as well as the NJAC/MAC. If some disagree, you're more than welcome to your own beliefs. And if some feel like there's a pole in my rear end, well, I guess you've got the right to believe that, too.

I think this year the E8 probably would have won the challange easily.  But most years it might be more even.

[Old IC Voice]

Also, in a totally-random tangent, is anyone going to update the E8 pick-em, or are we done for the year?

[AlfredSaxon8]

I know it's early, but you've got the AQ so there's no "looking ahead".... who do the AU posters WANT to see in the first round? Why?

I dont know if any of the E8 posters spoke up on this Max but, if at all possible, I would love to see an AU-Cortland matchup.

Obviously, it probably wont happen unless they both move on but it was one team that I always wanted to play while I was at AU.  Plus, Murray was the head coach there and Puccio was an all-american under his tenure so I think it would add an extra headline to the game...

[Bombers798891]

Do we really WANT an E8/LL challenge? What would the E8 have to gain from it? SLU, RPI, and Hobart are the top three in the conference, and I don't think they'd do all too well in the E8 on their own. Win, and it's not necessarily a quality win. Lose, and it's potentially a bad loss.

Take this into account. The #4 team in the LL, by the standings, is Merchant Marine. Springfield gave those kids NIGHTMARES, and I'd have to think even 'Wick or UC cruises to an easy win over them. The NJAC and MAC can have their challenge. I'll be content hoping the E8 doesn't follow their lead.

Yeah, I mean the #3 and #6 team beat your #1 team this year.  That LL conference must be really inferior.

You may not want to bring up the OOC performance of your conference's #1 team if you're going to defend the LL...

Correct me if these numbers are off a bit, but...

1) Head to head, the E8 went 8-2 against the LL this season and outscored them by 184 points.

2) The E8 is 22-4 OOC, the LL is 8-15.

3) 2 of the 7 teams in the LL will finish the regular season with a winning record, at least 4 of the 6 E8 teams will finish with a winning record

Look, I'm all for diplomacy between the two conferences. But this season, there isn't really much debate to be had. The E8 is stronger than the LL. In fact, it's much stronger. As I posted previously, this is likely an aberration for the LL. I'm sure that there have been years the reverse is true. But the day that stating basic facts is constituted as arrogance or "having a poll up our ass" is a sad one.

I would personally love to see IC play teams like Union, Hobart, St. Lawrence or RPI on a regular basis. It's a lot more compelling than Frostburg and Salisbury.

[AlfredSaxon8]

I know it's early, but you've got the AQ so there's no "looking ahead".... who do the AU posters WANT to see in the first round? Why?

I dont know if any of the E8 posters spoke up on this Max but, if at all possible, I would love to see an AU-Cortland matchup.

Obviously, it probably wont happen unless they both move on but it was one team that I always wanted to play while I was at AU.  Plus, Murray was the head coach there and Puccio was an all-american under his tenure so I think it would add an extra headline to the game...

I'm assuming it will probably be Delaware Valley and MUC with shots at the non-AQ teams... and since AU has two losses, they will be a lower seeded AQ team.  Which means they will probably be matched up against a higher seeded Pool C team or a lower seeded AQ team.  I think a matchup against Rowan (assuming they get the bid) or Suny Maritime is most likely in the future for the Saxons...