FB: Empire 8

[pg04]

And I don't mean to be all rah rah and homer-like, and cause a hubbub... It's just some of the posts are rubbing me the wrong way.  They may not be as close as 5 points to Ithaca (who knows), but it could still be a building point for them...

[dlippiel]

No pgo4, dlip hears you. dlip thinks this weekend was a positive for Brockport and can be used as a building block for B-State. 

[Bombers798891]

And I don't mean to be all rah rah and homer-like, and cause a hubbub... It's just some of the posts are rubbing me the wrong way.  They may not be as close as 5 points to Ithaca (who knows), but it could still be a building point for them...

PG04...no-one's saying Brockport should pack it in, or anything of that nature. You're right, it is entirely possible that Brockport is simply a better team than they were last season and that's why the game was competitive. And of course, they can, and should, use this as a building block, stepping stone, whatever we want to call it.

Sometimes, it's tough to make judgments about OOC teams. The Bombers haven't played Brockport since 2007, so it's hard for me to look at them and think, "Is this team better or worse?" etc. I was probably too dismissive of Brockport's defense. While IC left points on the field due to mistakes, Brockport's D made some big plays and deserved more credit than I gave them.

I'm not sure where the heat comment is coming from. Obviously both teams played it in and were affected by it to some degree. I was on the IC side of the field, so it was easy to see when players were cramping up and getting worked on, and that Ruffrage was spending a decent amount of time on the bench. That may very well have been the case for Brockport, but it's something we just couldn't see.

[sjfcards]

Hey all!
Here is looking forward to the season....I didnt like having Fisher with a week 1 bye, but am ready to go!  Buff St. has been a tough opener lately...Not the right team to have you work the kinks out with..Hence them keeping it close to Cortland.  I am hoping that the new offense gells, and the "newer, faster" D works.

See many of you in a few weeks in Roch--20 year reunion...Dear god its been 20 years!

Agreed 91. I did not like the week 1 bye at all. Normally I am all over D3 football weekend, but I had a hard time getting excited for last weekend without Fisher in the mix. I also hate that they will not have another bye for the rest of the season. Fisher looked like a very tired team the last few weeks of last season, and when they did have a week off they came out and blew the doors off of RPI in the bowl game (I know RPI isn't MUC, but Fisher still looked good).

I think Buff State can create some problems for Fisher like they did for C-State but I think Fisher can take care of business. I am very interested to see what the O-Line and the QB situations look like. Hopefully Fisher has more depth than we realized after last year.
It is probably just wishful thinking but for some reason I think Fisher is going to have a good season. I don't know why, but something feels good to me.

[sjfcards]

Utica looked good on both sides of the ball today.  Benkwitt is very accurate with the short game and they run a pretty sophisticated O.  He has 4 or 5 receiver options, and I like the two tight end/two wideout sets.  All of their receivers can catch the ball and run with it, including the TE's.
All three backs ran the ball effectively and all three have very different styles, which should cause some headaches for opposing defenses.
Their D looked good for three quarters, pulled their NG, lost an ILB to injury, put in some 2nd team guys, and SLU put up points in the 4th, including a 90 (!)-yd drive and 7 off a blocked punt. 
Washington for SLU is a tough back who runs very hard.  He put up some numbers today and I'm sure he will continue to do just that.
For a Utica fan, it was a fun game to watch. It will take a couple more games to put it into perspective.

I think Utica will continue to improve this year. They still have a way to go, but I would not be amazed if they knock off one of the "big boys" in the E8 this year. I really think that Faggiano is one of the better football coaches in the area, and that a lot of Fisher's success was his doing.

[Bombers798891]

Good start for the E8 in terms of OOC play. Utica beating St. Lawrence so easily surprised me, although the result didn't. The Wick put forth a pretty discouraging effort against a Morrisville State team that's gone 8-41 the past five seasons and allowed at least 34 points a game in each year, but at least they got the win. Salisbury rolled Newport News, but that was to be expected. Perhaps the most surprising was Frostburg beating Geneva.

Next week will be a big week for the conference. Alfred and Utica look to continue the conference's success against LL teams, while Fisher faces a steadily improving Buffalo State team. Fisher probably wins, but I don't think it will be easy. 27-10 Fisher, 28-20 Alfred

IC gets thrown to the wolves, going on the road to play the conference favorites, and doing so without--as far as I know--a true #1 quarterback. Hopefully, the defense keeps them in it, but...let's just say, 31-13 Salisbury feels right to me.

I'm very interested in the Utica/Union game. My downview on the Dutchman nonwithstanding, Union is quite a few steps up from the Castleton State/Becker's of the world. The Pioneers winning probably means they'll be 3-0 heading into the Salisbury game and brimming with confidence.

A Union win, on the other hand, could get things turned around for them. At 1-1, and facing a very beatable Ithaca team at home (that will be licking its wounds most likely) followed by the two teams they beat last season, could get them on a roll, and would really go a long way towards helping the LL improve its OOC rep following last season. Right now though, I am leaning towards Utica based on, in my view, an edge at QB. 34-17 Pioneers.

[dewcrew88]

With all due respect to Utica, I think people might be overrating SLU a bit. One of the worst IC teams in recent memory manhandled them in last year's season opener despite having several starters suspended for the game. They went 5-6, but still won the Liberty League in what was a real down year for the conference. No team in that league did better than 6-4 in 2010, and SLU was actually outscored 247-161 on the year.

By all means, Utica's starting on the right foot. But ranking them ahead of an Ithaca team that thumped them 30-6 in 2010 and returns the core of that year's defense? That might be a rush to judgment.

I'll say this over and over and over again. I will never rank Utica in front of Ithaca until UC can beat the Bombers... if my memory serves me, UC IS 0-10 in program history, only three within two touchdowns. Great win for my Pioneers, but lets get into league play first.

[dewcrew88]

Good start for the E8 in terms of OOC play. Utica beating St. Lawrence so easily surprised me, although the result didn't. The Wick put forth a pretty discouraging effort against a Morrisville State team that's gone 8-41 the past five seasons and allowed at least 34 points a game in each year, but at least they got the win. Salisbury rolled Newport News, but that was to be expected. Perhaps the most surprising was Frostburg beating Geneva.

Next week will be a big week for the conference. Alfred and Utica look to continue the conference's success against LL teams, while Fisher faces a steadily improving Buffalo State team. Fisher probably wins, but I don't think it will be easy. 27-10 Fisher, 28-20 Alfred

IC gets thrown to the wolves, going on the road to play the conference favorites, and doing so without--as far as I know--a true #1 quarterback. Hopefully, the defense keeps them in it, but...let's just say, 31-13 Salisbury feels right to me.

I'm very interested in the Utica/Union game. My downview on the Dutchman nonwithstanding, Union is quite a few steps up from the Castleton State/Becker's of the world. The Pioneers winning probably means they'll be 3-0 heading into the Salisbury game and brimming with confidence.

A Union win, on the other hand, could get things turned around for them. At 1-1, and facing a very beatable Ithaca team at home (that will be licking its wounds most likely) followed by the two teams they beat last season, could get them on a roll, and would really go a long way towards helping the LL improve its OOC rep following last season. Right now though, I am leaning towards Utica based on, in my view, an edge at QB. 34-17 Pioneers.

Utica beating Union would be one of the biggest wins in program history, without question.

[Yanks 99]

Good start for the E8 in terms of OOC play. Utica beating St. Lawrence so easily surprised me, although the result didn't. The Wick put forth a pretty discouraging effort against a Morrisville State team that's gone 8-41 the past five seasons and allowed at least 34 points a game in each year, but at least they got the win. Salisbury rolled Newport News, but that was to be expected. Perhaps the most surprising was Frostburg beating Geneva.

Next week will be a big week for the conference. Alfred and Utica look to continue the conference's success against LL teams, while Fisher faces a steadily improving Buffalo State team. Fisher probably wins, but I don't think it will be easy. 27-10 Fisher, 28-20 Alfred

IC gets thrown to the wolves, going on the road to play the conference favorites, and doing so without--as far as I know--a true #1 quarterback. Hopefully, the defense keeps them in it, but...let's just say, 31-13 Salisbury feels right to me.

I'm very interested in the Utica/Union game. My downview on the Dutchman nonwithstanding, Union is quite a few steps up from the Castleton State/Becker's of the world. The Pioneers winning probably means they'll be 3-0 heading into the Salisbury game and brimming with confidence.

A Union win, on the other hand, could get things turned around for them. At 1-1, and facing a very beatable Ithaca team at home (that will be licking its wounds most likely) followed by the two teams they beat last season, could get them on a roll, and would really go a long way towards helping the LL improve its OOC rep following last season. Right now though, I am leaning towards Utica based on, in my view, an edge at QB. 34-17 Pioneers.

Utica beating Union would be one of the biggest wins in program history, without question.

I think Utica has 5 more games left on their schedule this year where if they win it will be the biggest win in the program's history (Union, Salisbury, Ithaca, SJFC, and Alfred).

[maxpower]

Don't know if there are any hockey fans on the board, but a plane carrying KHL team Yaroslavl Lokomotiv has crashed in Russia, killing nearly everyone on the team (too many conflicting reports about numbers right now for me to post any). Former NHLers on the team include (at least) Brad McCrimmon, Ruslan Salei, Stefan Liv, Karlis Skrastins, Pavol Demitra, Alexander Vasyunov, and Alexander Karpovtsev. There are (currently) a few survivors, again many conflicting reports.

Feeling for friends, families, and hockey fans everywhere.

[Bombers798891]

Good start for the E8 in terms of OOC play. Utica beating St. Lawrence so easily surprised me, although the result didn't. The Wick put forth a pretty discouraging effort against a Morrisville State team that's gone 8-41 the past five seasons and allowed at least 34 points a game in each year, but at least they got the win. Salisbury rolled Newport News, but that was to be expected. Perhaps the most surprising was Frostburg beating Geneva.

Next week will be a big week for the conference. Alfred and Utica look to continue the conference's success against LL teams, while Fisher faces a steadily improving Buffalo State team. Fisher probably wins, but I don't think it will be easy. 27-10 Fisher, 28-20 Alfred

IC gets thrown to the wolves, going on the road to play the conference favorites, and doing so without--as far as I know--a true #1 quarterback. Hopefully, the defense keeps them in it, but...let's just say, 31-13 Salisbury feels right to me.

I'm very interested in the Utica/Union game. My downview on the Dutchman nonwithstanding, Union is quite a few steps up from the Castleton State/Becker's of the world. The Pioneers winning probably means they'll be 3-0 heading into the Salisbury game and brimming with confidence.

A Union win, on the other hand, could get things turned around for them. At 1-1, and facing a very beatable Ithaca team at home (that will be licking its wounds most likely) followed by the two teams they beat last season, could get them on a roll, and would really go a long way towards helping the LL improve its OOC rep following last season. Right now though, I am leaning towards Utica based on, in my view, an edge at QB. 34-17 Pioneers.

Utica beating Union would be one of the biggest wins in program history, without question.

I think Utica has 5 more games left on their schedule this year where if they win it will be the biggest win in the program's history (Union, Salisbury, Ithaca, SJFC, and Alfred).

True story. Although I also think, based on early and incomplete returns, Union's the most likely culprit, although Ithaca's ripe for the taking, as that game is in Utica.

Hypothetical question using Utica/Union as the backdrop: Does a team's struggles dilute the significance of them becoming another program's big victory? Right now, Union is coming off a 2-7 season. If they went say, 3-6 this season, how does that affect the way we view the win? We could ask this question about a lot of teams. I'm a Michigan State fan, and they recently beat Michigan three straight times for the first time in like, 40 years. Of course, that coincided with three of the worst Michigan teams of the last 40 years.

Personally, as much as I like beating Michigan, I have to admit, watching them go 4-8 took the luster off. It's why I hope SJF stays good, because when we beat you in 20 years, I want it to matter.

[Yanks 99]

Good start for the E8 in terms of OOC play. Utica beating St. Lawrence so easily surprised me, although the result didn't. The Wick put forth a pretty discouraging effort against a Morrisville State team that's gone 8-41 the past five seasons and allowed at least 34 points a game in each year, but at least they got the win. Salisbury rolled Newport News, but that was to be expected. Perhaps the most surprising was Frostburg beating Geneva.

Next week will be a big week for the conference. Alfred and Utica look to continue the conference's success against LL teams, while Fisher faces a steadily improving Buffalo State team. Fisher probably wins, but I don't think it will be easy. 27-10 Fisher, 28-20 Alfred

IC gets thrown to the wolves, going on the road to play the conference favorites, and doing so without--as far as I know--a true #1 quarterback. Hopefully, the defense keeps them in it, but...let's just say, 31-13 Salisbury feels right to me.

I'm very interested in the Utica/Union game. My downview on the Dutchman nonwithstanding, Union is quite a few steps up from the Castleton State/Becker's of the world. The Pioneers winning probably means they'll be 3-0 heading into the Salisbury game and brimming with confidence.

A Union win, on the other hand, could get things turned around for them. At 1-1, and facing a very beatable Ithaca team at home (that will be licking its wounds most likely) followed by the two teams they beat last season, could get them on a roll, and would really go a long way towards helping the LL improve its OOC rep following last season. Right now though, I am leaning towards Utica based on, in my view, an edge at QB. 34-17 Pioneers.

Utica beating Union would be one of the biggest wins in program history, without question.

I think Utica has 5 more games left on their schedule this year where if they win it will be the biggest win in the program's history (Union, Salisbury, Ithaca, SJFC, and Alfred).

True story. Although I also think, based on early and incomplete returns, Union's the most likely culprit, although Ithaca's ripe for the taking, as that game is in Utica.

Hypothetical question using Utica/Union as the backdrop: Does a team's struggles dilute the significance of them becoming another program's big victory? Right now, Union is coming off a 2-7 season. If they went say, 3-6 this season, how does that affect the way we view the win? We could ask this question about a lot of teams. I'm a Michigan State fan, and they recently beat Michigan three straight times for the first time in like, 40 years. Of course, that coincided with three of the worst Michigan teams of the last 40 years.

Personally, as much as I like beating Michigan, I have to admit, watching them go 4-8 took the luster off. It's why I hope SJF stays good, because when we beat you in 20 years, I want it to matter.

I think it does in the context of where Utica started, and where it is trying to go.  Going into last year, Utica had only beaten 2 teams...ever...that had a winning record at the end of the year (in 2006 against a 5-4 Mount Ida team and in 2004 against a 5-4 RPI team).  Last year, they made pretty good strides in non-league games and beat 3 more teams with winning records at the end of the year, even though they finished winless in the league.  Castleton State (unbelievably in the terrible ECFC) was 5-4, Wilkes finished 6-5, and RPI ended up 6-4 after a rough start.

Even if Union finishes sub .500, or Ithaca finishes the year at 6-4, a win over either of these two programs is a huge signature win for them...especially in the context of only beating 5 above .500 teams in ten years.  Union maybe wouldn't be the biggest win ever...but they are a legitimate program...and even if they finished with a terrible record (though I suspect they will finish above .500 at least), this will probably be Utica's second biggest program win ever.   Currently, I think that the 2004 win against RPI is the program's biggest win.  A win for the first time over Alfred, Ithaca, or SJFC...no matter what their records are...immediately becomes Utica's biggest program win.

[Bombers798891]

I think it does in the context of where Utica started, and where it is trying to go.  Going into last year, Utica had only beaten 2 teams...ever...that had a winning record at the end of the year (in 2006 against a 5-4 Mount Ida team and in 2004 against a 5-4 RPI team).  Last year, they made pretty good strides in non-league games and beat 3 more teams with winning records at the end of the year, even though they finished winless in the league.  Castleton State (unbelievably in the terrible ECFC) was 5-4, Wilkes finished 6-5, and RPI ended up 6-4 after a rough start.

Even if Union finishes sub .500, or Ithaca finishes the year at 6-4, a win over either of these two programs is a huge signature win for them...especially in the context of only beating 5 above .500 teams in ten years.  Union maybe wouldn't be the biggest win ever...but they are a legitimate program...and even if they finished with a terrible record (though I suspect they will finish above .500 at least), this will probably be Utica's second biggest program win ever.   Currently, I think that the 2004 win against RPI is the program's biggest win.  A win for the first time over Alfred, Ithaca, or SJFC...no matter what their records are...immediately becomes Utica's biggest program win.

See, what's interesting to me is that you didn't mention the Springfield win in 2008, even though that's the only time Utica's ever beaten a non-Norwich E8 team and the Pride arguably are a better football team than Alfred or Fisher, historically speaking. The Pride went 4-6 that year, although they're 17-4 since.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that that's sort of what I was getting at. It seems like we color wins in certain ways based on how good the team is. Since this is shaping up to be a not so hot IC team--and maybe not a great Union squad--it's just the stuff that rolls around in my head

It's going to happen though. It might take another decade of "This is the year!" talk, (only kidding) but everyone gets their shot--okay, except Norwich

[Yanks 99]

I think it does in the context of where Utica started, and where it is trying to go.  Going into last year, Utica had only beaten 2 teams...ever...that had a winning record at the end of the year (in 2006 against a 5-4 Mount Ida team and in 2004 against a 5-4 RPI team).  Last year, they made pretty good strides in non-league games and beat 3 more teams with winning records at the end of the year, even though they finished winless in the league.  Castleton State (unbelievably in the terrible ECFC) was 5-4, Wilkes finished 6-5, and RPI ended up 6-4 after a rough start.

Even if Union finishes sub .500, or Ithaca finishes the year at 6-4, a win over either of these two programs is a huge signature win for them...especially in the context of only beating 5 above .500 teams in ten years.  Union maybe wouldn't be the biggest win ever...but they are a legitimate program...and even if they finished with a terrible record (though I suspect they will finish above .500 at least), this will probably be Utica's second biggest program win ever.   Currently, I think that the 2004 win against RPI is the program's biggest win.  A win for the first time over Alfred, Ithaca, or SJFC...no matter what their records are...immediately becomes Utica's biggest program win.

See, what's interesting to me is that you didn't mention the Springfield win in 2008, even though that's the only time Utica's ever beaten a non-Norwich E8 team and the Pride arguably are a better football team than Alfred or Fisher, historically speaking. The Pride went 4-6 that year, although they're 17-4 since.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that that's sort of what I was getting at. It seems like we color wins in certain ways based on how good the team is. Since this is shaping up to be a not so hot IC team--and maybe not a great Union squad--it's just the stuff that rolls around in my head

It's going to happen though. It might take another decade of "This is the year!" talk, (only kidding) but everyone gets their shot--okay, except Norwich

Good catch...I actually forgot all about that win over the Pride.  Looking back...it probably is one of their biggest wins even though Springfield was sub .500...no arguments there.

And you are right...it is going to happen someday.  Blaise is a good coach and recruiter.  He has them playing tough in recent years...and I don't think it is an accident that SJFC has kind of hit a plateau (or dare I say even taken a small step backwards) since he left, while Utica has made some monumental leaps forward and gone from doormat to extremely competitive...

You are right though...it is going to happen...someday (at least for one season) in the future, Utica will make a run at the E8 title...

Either that or they can pull a Norwich and leave a conference where you are a perennial doormat with a 4-26 record over a five year period, and join a conference where you immediately put yourself in position to get a Pool A bid every single year and immediately go 11-2 in the league in the first two years...

[Bombers798891]

Either that or they can pull a Norwich and leave a conference where you are a perennial doormat with a 4-26 record over a five year period, and join a conference where you immediately put yourself in position to get a Pool A bid every single year and immediately go 11-2 in the league in the first two years...

You know, I got to thinking about this when people were talking (whining) about the BCS. Isn't Norwich the perfect example of how there really is no perfect system? I think we have this idea that playoffs, generally speaking, give you a "true" national champion. And yet, the Cadets prove that every system has its flaws. Not that the Cadets would be title contenders, but they can take up one of 32 playoff spots, despite the fact that in my belief, as things currently stand, they'd get beaten soundly by any team in the E8.

Good riddance, I say. Unless things change for that program their talent level relative to the rest of the playoff field will still remain poor, and they don't drag down the conference anymore while being an awful road trip. (I guess, for now, Frostburg takes that spot?)