FB: Empire 8

[boobyhasgameyo]

I think it does in the context of where Utica started, and where it is trying to go.  Going into last year, Utica had only beaten 2 teams...ever...that had a winning record at the end of the year (in 2006 against a 5-4 Mount Ida team and in 2004 against a 5-4 RPI team).  Last year, they made pretty good strides in non-league games and beat 3 more teams with winning records at the end of the year, even though they finished winless in the league.  Castleton State (unbelievably in the terrible ECFC) was 5-4, Wilkes finished 6-5, and RPI ended up 6-4 after a rough start.

Even if Union finishes sub .500, or Ithaca finishes the year at 6-4, a win over either of these two programs is a huge signature win for them...especially in the context of only beating 5 above .500 teams in ten years.  Union maybe wouldn't be the biggest win ever...but they are a legitimate program...and even if they finished with a terrible record (though I suspect they will finish above .500 at least), this will probably be Utica's second biggest program win ever.   Currently, I think that the 2004 win against RPI is the program's biggest win.  A win for the first time over Alfred, Ithaca, or SJFC...no matter what their records are...immediately becomes Utica's biggest program win.

See, what's interesting to me is that you didn't mention the Springfield win in 2008, even though that's the only time Utica's ever beaten a non-Norwich E8 team and the Pride arguably are a better football team than Alfred or Fisher, historically speaking. The Pride went 4-6 that year, although they're 17-4 since.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that that's sort of what I was getting at. It seems like we color wins in certain ways based on how good the team is. Since this is shaping up to be a not so hot IC team--and maybe not a great Union squad--it's just the stuff that rolls around in my head

It's going to happen though. It might take another decade of "This is the year!" talk, (only kidding) but everyone gets their shot--okay, except Norwich

Good catch...I actually forgot all about that win over the Pride.  Looking back...it probably is one of their biggest wins even though Springfield was sub .500...no arguments there.

And you are right...it is going to happen someday.  Blaise is a good coach and recruiter.  He has them playing tough in recent years...and I don't think it is an accident that SJFC has kind of hit a plateau (or dare I say even taken a small step backwards) since he left, while Utica has made some monumental leaps forward and gone from doormat to extremely competitive...

You are right though...it is going to happen...someday (at least for one season) in the future, Utica will make a run at the E8 title...

Either that or they can pull a Norwich and leave a conference where you are a perennial doormat with a 4-26 record over a five year period, and join a conference where you immediately put yourself in position to get a Pool A bid every single year and immediately go 11-2 in the league in the first two years...

It's ok you can say that because it's true.  Not like it's an insult - Fisher went to the field of 16 (lost a game against Del Val that still rubs a lot of Fisher faithful the wrong way) in 2005, field of 4 (aka plateau) in 2006, field of 8 in 2007 and then they decided that the NCAA's aren't really their thing and they much prefer the ECAC games.  I'd say while they have remained a very good team, especially in the East, they've fallen back and have lost games they really shouldn't have lost each of the last three seasons. 

Personally I feel like Fisher was dominant when they were running the ball down the other team's throat on offense and had a really talented and well coached (see Blaise) defense to back them up.  Now we like to run out of the gun and do all these read offenses and the defense is a train wreck half the time.  I think we are recruiting kids who were just as talented as kids from years past, so that leaves coaching and scheme as the reason for the set back in my mind. 

But hey here is to hoping this season is a great one!  I don't have the same amount of confidence in them this year, but I am all about being pleasantly surprised.  Go Fisher! 

[dlippiel]

dlip thinks Utica is an up-in-coming program with the right man at the helm. To dlip, like he has said before this week, Utica is the favorite, clear favorite, on Saturday. With that said, it still will be a good victory in name over Union for Utica if they win. Honestly, this Utica team could most likely compete with some of the solid Union teams of the 2000's. That thought in itself is one that makes dlip feel that Utica is really growing and maybe ready to take another step this year.

[AUPepBand]

dlip thinks Utica is an up-in-coming program with the right man at the helm. To dlip, like he has said before this week, Utica is the favorite, clear favorite, on Saturday. With that said, it still will be a good victory in name over Union for Utica if they win. Honestly, this Utica team could most likely compete with some of the solid Union teams of the 2000's. That thought in itself is one that makes dlip feel that Utica is really growing and maybe ready to take another step this year.

Pep agrees that Utica is on the rise with Blaise. Pep is wondering, were the Union-Utica gridiron confrontation turn into some sort of traditional game, e.g. Cortaca, Shoes Game, Courage Bowl or the Alfland Mug, what would one call it?

On Saxon Warriors!

[lewdogg11]

I would be shocked if Utica doesn't win the E8.

[Frank Rossi]

I would be shocked if Utica doesn't win the E8.

Then make like this eagle and search for live wires:

[Pat Coleman]

Isn't Norwich the perfect example of how there really is no perfect system? I think we have this idea that playoffs, generally speaking, give you a "true" national champion. And yet, the Cadets prove that every system has its flaws. Not that the Cadets would be title contenders, but they can take up one of 32 playoff spots, despite the fact that in my belief, as things currently stand, they'd get beaten soundly by any team in the E8.

This is true, but I don't think the ECFC champ, or UMAC champ, is keeping someone out of the field that would truly compete for the national championship. This system still gives you a true national champion.

[Frank Rossi]

Pat, does the NCAA release the annual playoffs revenue share by round for teams that gain entry in the football tourney (D3)?

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, does the NCAA release the annual playoffs revenue share by round for teams that gain entry in the football tourney (D3)?

I am not aware of any revenue share, unless you mean the money the NCAA gives to the schools as reimbursement for their travel bills.

[Frank Rossi]

Pat, does the NCAA release the annual playoffs revenue share by round for teams that gain entry in the football tourney (D3)?

I am not aware of any revenue share, unless you mean the money the NCAA gives to the schools as reimbursement for their travel bills.

I asked because the argument against the autobid system in D1 basketball is that you're preventing a team from at least a revenue share and centralized national exposure.

I'm someone in favor of the autobid system, although we know my angst with the regional system that turns unregional come playoff time.  Playing devil's advocate, though, the autobid system does rob what would be a more midpack team the chance at extra practice week(s), recruiting exposure and quality opposition opportunities that helps keep the quality level of the system very tiered (upper level that has a basic lock on the brackets and at-large bids, middle tier that probably will never really sustain momentum to get out of that tier because of the autobid system and lower tier that may get in only if they play in a weak conference).  Again, while I don't subscribe to that overall philosophy, it does have some validity.

[Pat Coleman]

Just as in Division I there are teams in the tournament who couldn't possibly win the national title, so there are in Division III. It's one of the few similarities, to be honest.

[Frank Rossi]

Just as in Division I there are teams in the tournament who couldn't possibly win the national title, so there are in Division III. It's one of the few similarities, to be honest.

What are the qualities or aspects that let the upper-level teams remain the upper-level teams?

[Pat Coleman]

Offhand, I'd say talent, coaching, tradition (leads to recruiting better talent), playoff games and playoff practices.

[Yanks 99]

Just as in Division I there are teams in the tournament who couldn't possibly win the national title, so there are in Division III. It's one of the few similarities, to be honest.

That is actually a great point...even though I hate the ECFC and the NEFC...

But let's be real honest...there are really 30 teams that make the playoffs every year that couldn't possibly win the National Championship...judging that we are staring down the barrel of Mount Union vs. University of Wisconsin-Whitewater VII...

[maxpower]

I know I get shot down whenever I bring this up, but just out of curiosity: if Mount Union or UWW were moved up to D-II today, where in the pack would they stand? Would they be by far the worst? Somewhere in the middle? Somewhere (this is what I suspect) toward the bottom?

[Frank Rossi]

Offhand, I'd say talent, coaching, tradition (leads to recruiting better talent), playoff games and playoff practices.

Right, we agree there.  The argument then continues that the practices, etc. would benefit the next at-large team that missed the playoffs than a lower-tiered conference winner.  And that would help eliminate the vacuum that seems to form between the Top 5 or 6 teams and the next 20 teams that we tend to see.  It's much easier for a great team to dive than it is for a midpack team to rise into that echelon under the current system (Rowan would tell you that).