FB: Empire 8

[pumkinattack]

Does anyone have any actual proof that UofR is basing their decision on the past seven years (the duration of this "courage bowl") and would Mervis be offended if UofR scribbled a $30k check to the charity (which would be a rounding error for UofR)? 

Awful lot of speculation without any facts, just supposition.  I don't like it when outsiders do it about Hobart, so I'm happy to defend UofR until there's something indefensible here, which I don't see.  Especially in the face of the fact that UofR has played difficult OOC schedules for many years.  The idea that they're ducking someone really flies in the face of everything we actually know about the school.  Is it possible and/or probable that there's another, different reason for this potential decision? 

[pg04]

Time For a change's article doesn't prove it, but there is enough speculation for it to be in that Democrat and Chronicle...

However at this point nothing I've looked it is "definite" --- Who knows, backlash could force UR back into it...

[AUPepBand]

Time For a change's article doesn't prove it, but there is enough speculation for it to be in that Democrat and Chronicle...

Pep just "fact-checked" the D&C article. Rochester is NOT listed as having an open date on Sept. 15, 2012 on the D3football.com website. Some comments under the D&C article online may offer some enlightenment before everyone throws stones at UR. In summary:
--LL adds Springfield in 2012 (adding a conference game to UR schedule)
--It's the middle of a football season...why the off-field distraction, can't it wait til later?
--Leaking the story to pressure UR not in the best interest of everyone

On Saxon Warriors!

[sjfcards]

Does anyone have any actual proof that UofR is basing their decision on the past seven years (the duration of this "courage bowl") and would Mervis be offended if UofR scribbled a $30k check to the charity (which would be a rounding error for UofR)? 

Awful lot of speculation without any facts, just supposition.  I don't like it when outsiders do it about Hobart, so I'm happy to defend UofR until there's something indefensible here, which I don't see.  Especially in the face of the fact that UofR has played difficult OOC schedules for many years.  The idea that they're ducking someone really flies in the face of everything we actually know about the school.  Is it possible and/or probable that there's another, different reason for this potential decision?

I guess that is what I was asking in my post. The article makes it seem like U of R is "ducking" Fisher, but from what I have seen from U of R in the past, I can't believe that is the case. I am wondering what other factors could lead to that decision? I am not speculating that losing every year is the reason U of R does not want to play in the game. I am honestly curious as to why they wouldn't want to be a part of something that is a lot of fun, and supports a good cause.

[Pat Coleman]

Time For a change's article doesn't prove it, but there is enough speculation for it to be in that Democrat and Chronicle...

Pep just "fact-checked" the D&C article. Rochester is NOT listed as having an open date on Sept. 15, 2012 on the D3football.com website.

Nonetheless, Pep, they did have an open date listed, and the reporter double-checked that fact with me. They don't anymore.

[Frank Rossi]

James Baker reached out today on behalf of our "In the HuddLLe" show.  Here is the statement received from the Rochester AD, George VanderZwaag:

"While it is true that we are reviewing our football schedule, no decision has been made with respect to our participation in the Courage Bowl."

[EDIT: We had Coach Greene from U of R on "In the HuddLLe" Sunday -- it actually was a great, wide-ranging interview (http://inthehuddlle.com -- started about 23 minutes into the show).  As sjfcards suggested, Greene seemed to pride himself and his team on the challenging schedule they face.  It would seem somewhat disingenuous if they were definitely ducking Fisher based on the challenge.  We also discussed Salisbury's entrance into the E8 and Springfield's jump to the LL.  We might be witnessing an issue in that Springfield is forcing a removal of an OOC game -- and Rochester may want to keep Alfred and Case instead of SJF while maintaining 9 games on their schedule.  Only U of R knows their intent, and we'll keep our eye on developments here and inform you as we learn more.]

[AUPepBand]

Time For a change's article doesn't prove it, but there is enough speculation for it to be in that Democrat and Chronicle...

Pep just "fact-checked" the D&C article. Rochester is NOT listed as having an open date on Sept. 15, 2012 on the D3football.com website.

Nonetheless, Pep, they did have an open date listed, and the reporter double-checked that fact with me. They don't anymore.

Good to know. Been awhile since Pep looked at the open dates.

[SJFF82]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111019/SPORTS09/111019023/UR-considers-dropping-Courage-Bowl-from-football-schedule

I guess they are sick of getting beat down year after year...

The University of Rochester may be leaving the Courage Bowl, its annual charity football game against St. John Fisher.

The Division III game, played every September, benefits the cancer-stricken children of Camp Good Days and Special Times.

UR won the first seven meetings with Fisher from 1989-2001, but Fisher has won the past 10 – including all seven Courage Bowls. Fisher's average margin of victory in the Courage Bowl is 41-19, including 52-3 last month at Sahlen's Stadium. UR challenged Fisher in 2008 (24-17) and 2009 (35-33) but came up short.

Courage Bowl founder Gary Mervis, a volunteer kicking coach with Fisher and chairman/founder for Camp Good Days and Special Times, said UR officials told him they would conduct an "internal review" and get back to him. He said he has heard that UR may no longer want to play Fisher.

UR athletic director George VanderZwaag declined a request to comment for this story.

UR listed Sept. 15, 2012 — the scheduled date for Courage Bowl VIII — as an "open date" on the D3football.com Web site. The posting took place on Sept. 28, just eight days after Fisher's 49-point win over UR.

Mervis said he is "offended" by the Yellowjackets' potential departure.

"This is more than just a football game," he said. "This is about the children of Camp Good Days, and their experience dealing with the players and coaches. It's about making memories for them."

All proceeds from the annual game go to the children of Camp Good Days. Mervis said last month's game raised about $30,000.

Mervis vowed that the Courage Bowl will continue, with or without UR. He would prefer that the opponent be a local team, so that the children of Camp Good Days can enjoy the events leading up to the game, such as a luncheon and visits by the honorary captains and cheerleaders to team practices.

Yeh, i threw this 'story' out there a couple weeks ago.  It seems to me that whatever the scheduling issue might be, etc, if UR was committed to the game they would play...period.  UR now sees they have nothing to gain from the game....from a football perspective. 

UR is 'like that'.  Back in 91-92, our program tried relentlessly to schedule UR, when we were trying to establish the program just after Vosburgh took over.  They resisted but when they did agree to the game, they drubbed us twice and moved on from us because they had nothing to gain by whipping lowly SJF. We just wanted to establish a local rivalry game and test ourselves annually against an established program

Now, they have everything to lose locally as a football program by getting drubbed annually, so they are moving on....

just my opinion

[Jonny Utah]

The Courage Bowl founder said that he is "offended" by the yellowjackets potential departure?  That alone sounds kind of strange to me.

What also sounds strange to me is how a "bowl game" director doesn't plan ahead and make sure he has two teams set up for the next two years at least.  Unless Rochester is pulling out of a commitment or something.

[saxontad]

Pep, is the band making the trip south?

[maxpower]

Yeh, i threw this 'story' out there a couple weeks ago.  It seems to me that whatever the scheduling issue might be, etc, if UR was committed to the game they would play...period.  UR now sees they have nothing to gain from the game....from a football perspective. 

UR is 'like that'.  Back in 91-92, our program tried relentlessly to schedule UR, when we were trying to establish the program just after Vosburgh took over.  They resisted but when they did agree to the game, they drubbed us twice and moved on from us because they had nothing to gain by whipping lowly SJF. We just wanted to establish a local rivalry game and test ourselves annually against an established program

Now, they have everything to lose locally as a football program by getting drubbed annually, so they are moving on....

just my opinion

I know you ended your post with "just my opinion," but that's an opinion that, if there were more UR posters on here, I'd like to think would be called out for being almost totally conjecture. I'm not sure what you have to back up your claim about them in the 90s, and I know you have what all of us have to back up your last claim: nothing but speculation (although it surely partly seems that way). Not to mention that, logically, you're taking two opposite behaviors and attributing them to the same impulse, which I think requires a little more than what you're giving us here.

I guess I'm stepping in partially as a UR "legacy," but also because I know if you had said these things about Ithaca, or RPI, or Alfred, etc, you'd probably be getting ripped right now.

It's not that I think you're lying, and not that I even necessarily don't believe you, but this post irks me in that it makes a pretty large character statement about a University (as large a statement as "they are 'like that'" can be), presents no evidence, and reeks of sour grapes (90s) followed up by schadenfreude (today).

[SJFF82]

The Courage Bowl founder said that he is "offended" by the yellowjackets potential departure?  That alone sounds kind of strange to me.

What also sounds strange to me is how a "bowl game" director doesn't plan ahead and make sure he has two teams set up for the next two years at least.  Unless Rochester is pulling out of a commitment or something.

I would think that at worst they had a mutual verbal understanding that this was going to be an annual game.  I mean xxx-forbid 2 local colleges committ to an annual charity game without some sort of formal 'legal' agreement

[Jonny Utah]

The Courage Bowl founder said that he is "offended" by the yellowjackets potential departure?  That alone sounds kind of strange to me.

What also sounds strange to me is how a "bowl game" director doesn't plan ahead and make sure he has two teams set up for the next two years at least.  Unless Rochester is pulling out of a commitment or something.

I would think that at worst they had a mutual verbal understanding that this was going to be an annual game.  I mean xxx-forbid 2 local colleges committ to an annual charity game without some sort of formal 'legal' agreement

Yea who knows.  I mean, you could put any upstate team in there and you can still have a great event.

[Bombers798891]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111019/SPORTS09/111019023/UR-considers-dropping-Courage-Bowl-from-football-schedule

I guess they are sick of getting beat down year after year...

The University of Rochester may be leaving the Courage Bowl, its annual charity football game against St. John Fisher.

Mervis said he is "offended" by the Yellowjackets' potential departure.

"This is more than just a football game," he said. "This is about the children of Camp Good Days, and their experience dealing with the players and coaches. It's about making memories for them."

All proceeds from the annual game go to the children of Camp Good Days. Mervis said last month's game raised about $30,000.

Mervis vowed that the Courage Bowl will continue, with or without UR. He would prefer that the opponent be a local team, so that the children of Camp Good Days can enjoy the events leading up to the game, such as a luncheon and visits by the honorary captains and cheerleaders to team practices.

This reaction by Mervis bugged me a ton. Look, the Courage Bowl is a great game, for a great cause. No one would ever say otherwise. I can understand why the organizers want to keep it going. But this seemed like a way to bully U of R in the court of public opinion. Like he was saying "Look at how selfish U of R is. They're backing out of a game that helps children." Because if you frame it like U of R is making the decision based on the football program at the expense of Camp Good Days, it's pretty obvious the way the general public will react.

It's dirty pool in my view. Rochester has no moral obligation to play this game. Sure, it would be great if they did. It would be great if the Cortaca Jug used its cachet to do something similar--I can think of places in Ithaca that could use the help. Cortland too. Heck, I'm absolutely blown away that it hasn't happened yet. The reality of the world is that this is not how people always act. It's all right to be disappointed about it. But indignation is taking it too far, in my view.

Making the comments the way he did essentially traps both Rochester and Fisher in the game. Decide to end it, and risk getting vilified by this guy. Is that how he wants to raise the money? Through fear of what will happen if you don't agree to help at the same level you used to? Because that's how it reads.

Rather than saying something like "I'm obviously disappointed, but if that's what the school wants, hopefully we can continue to maintain a positive relationship with the University in other ways." Then open a dialogue to do just that, he takes the low road. The football team could still make visits. The school could still donate money. There are other ways to get publicity and funds for a great cause beyond playing a football game. Why burn a bridge by acting in such a manner? Senseless.

[maxpower]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111019/SPORTS09/111019023/UR-considers-dropping-Courage-Bowl-from-football-schedule

I guess they are sick of getting beat down year after year...

The University of Rochester may be leaving the Courage Bowl, its annual charity football game against St. John Fisher.

Mervis said he is "offended" by the Yellowjackets' potential departure.

"This is more than just a football game," he said. "This is about the children of Camp Good Days, and their experience dealing with the players and coaches. It's about making memories for them."

All proceeds from the annual game go to the children of Camp Good Days. Mervis said last month's game raised about $30,000.

Mervis vowed that the Courage Bowl will continue, with or without UR. He would prefer that the opponent be a local team, so that the children of Camp Good Days can enjoy the events leading up to the game, such as a luncheon and visits by the honorary captains and cheerleaders to team practices.

This reaction by Mervis bugged me a ton. Look, the Courage Bowl is a great game, for a great cause. No one would ever say otherwise. I can understand why the organizers want to keep it going. But this seemed like a way to bully U of R in the court of public opinion. Like he was saying "Look at how selfish U of R is. They're backing out of a game that helps children." Because if you frame it like U of R is making the decision based on the football program at the expense of Camp Good Days, it's pretty obvious the way the general public will react.

It's dirty pool in my view. Rochester has no moral obligation to play this game. Sure, it would be great if they did. It would be great if the Cortaca Jug used its cachet to do something similar--I can think of places in Ithaca that could use the help. Cortland too. Heck, I'm absolutely blown away that it hasn't happened yet. The reality of the world is that this is not how people always act. It's all right to be disappointed about it. But indignation is taking it too far, in my view.

Making the comments the way he did essentially traps both Rochester and Fisher in the game. Decide to end it, and risk getting vilified by this guy. Is that how he wants to raise the money? Through fear of what will happen if you don't agree to help at the same level you used to? Because that's how it reads.

Rather than saying something like "I'm obviously disappointed, but if that's what the school wants, hopefully we can continue to maintain a positive relationship with the University in other ways." Then open a dialogue to do just that. The football team could still make visits. The school could still donate money. There are other ways to get publicity and funds for a great cause beyond playing a football game. Why burn a bridge by acting in such a manner? Senseless.

+k, and btw, welcome to the all-america squad