FB: Empire 8

[Yanks 99]

I'm not a debbie downer.  I was asking a serious question. Get past the colored glasses of your own region and think outside of it. 

Games vs. E8:  21-7, 70-45, 65-23, 69-0, 61-14, 41-21. 

A lot of impressive scores, there.  Look at the scores vs. the 2 other teams in D3 they played (yes, I realize one of them is Wesley and the other is a 7-2 team) and it's not as impressive.  Just asking how people outside might look at this. 

*Removed the possibly inflammatory statement 

How bad is the E-8 this year? A team with a RB playing QB has a shot at 8-2...

It's a horrible year for the E-8 this year, this isn't knocking SU at all.  They've came in and whipped them and proved they're a damn good team...

There has been some absolute horrid QB play this year in the E-8, the best QB coming into this year in the E-8 isn't even playing anymore for AU...

The E8 isn't having a bad year at all... last I checked, six of the eight teams have winning records, the only ones that don't are Ithaca and Hartwick, and IC could be 5-5 with a win against Cortland.
That's not a bad year, that's parity at its core and it's a reason why UMU comes to the East every year.

I wouldn't say the E8 is having a good year though...and I wouldn't simply call it "parity".  Salisbury is a tough, tough football team.  But the overall play of the entire E8 has been suspect throughout the year.  When our "better" teams are losing...they are getting killed.  That normally doesn't happen.  Does that mean that I think the E8 is a weak league?  Definitely not...but I would in no uncertain terms call this a good year for the E8, and simply blame it on parity. Some thoughts:

1) Only 5 teams have winning records...not 6.  Wick (2-7), Ithaca (4-5), and Frostburg (4-5) all are below .500.  And with Ithaca playing Cortland and Frostburg playing Salisbury, odds are the E8 will finish with 3 teams below .500, and a fourth team (Utica...who is currently 5-4, but plays Alfred this weekend) will probably finish with a .500 overall record, but a 2-5 record in the league.  All of this falls into the "normal" ranges of an eight team league.


2) Salisbury, in my opinion, is still one of the best teams in college football (even with the loss to Wesley).  They have run roughshod through the E8 this year, and are playing on a level that I haven't seen since the 2006 St. John Fisher team that made it to the semi-finals.  There would be zero shock value to see this team play in the quarters (if they stay in the East, with MUC coming over) or make the final four (if they get put in the South).  That being said, the following is why I believe people are looking at the E8 and scratching their heads:

- St. John Fisher:  Not a bad year, and will probably finish at 8-2.  No shame in losing to Salisbury...but still to this day, no one can really explain that mind blowing loss to Hobart....the same Hobart team that got beat by RPI (who lost badly to Alfred and Utica) last weekend.  That loss to Hobart will almost singlehandedly keep them out of the tournament this year.

- Springfield:  Not a bad year...could finish 7-3, but could also finish 6-4 with a loss to Union.  Their problem is that they have no real "good" wins this season, and lost to everyone that is considered tough (Salisbury, Alfred, Fisher).  Beat the teams they should have...and nothing more.

- Alfred:  Coming off of last year's NCAA quarterfinal appearance, I thought they were ready to roll, especially when they got that win against Springfield early.  But putting up only 3 points against Fisher, and then not losing to Salisbury, but getting destroyed shocked everyone.  I mean...69-0 destroyed.  Then Alfred went and found a way to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory against Frostburg.

- Ithaca:  Everyone has been over this one a million times already.  Like I said...Ithaca being relevant helps the E8 stay relevant.  Losing a 40 year winning season streak stinks...not just for Ithaca, but the entire E8 and East Region.

- Utica:  Probably the most mind numbingly inconsistent team in the NCAA.  Plus their defense is terrible.  Good wins early against Union and RPI, and then later on against a bad Ithaca team (though a good program win, none the less).  But then they got beat badly by Fisher and Springfield, and were never competitive in either one of those games in the second half.  Also...their offense has been struggling now for over a month.  Since putting up 45 and 38 against Salisbury and RPI, they have been held to 20 against Wick (with a late TD to win it), 20 against Ithaca (with a late TD to win it), a deceiving 36 against Fisher (down 56-15 in the 4th, and Fisher called off the dogs) and only 14 against Springfield (with no points being scored in the last 3 quarters).


3) The QB play in the league this year, overall, has been awful.  In the past, the QB position has an enormous strength for the E8.  No longer.  Anyone remember when the starting QB's in the league all at the same time were named Boltus (Wick), Keeley (Alfred), Kramer (Fisher), Juvan (Ithaca), and Sharpe (Springfield)?  That was less than 4 years ago.  Name one QB in the league today that can hang with these five, or where you can say that they are clearly better.  I don't see it.  Salisbury, Fisher, and Springfield all have "Running Back" QB's.  Alfred's QB situation is all over the place (their all-time leader not playing up to potential, hurt, etc.).  Frostburg's isn't too bad.  Ithaca and Hartwick's QB situation is no good to terrible.  Utica's Benkwitt might be the best of the bunch...but he should be improving at a faster rate, and his play this year has been as inconsistent as his entire team.

Is the E8 still a good to great league?  In my opinion, no question...but there is no way that I would call this a good year for the E8.

[Bombers798891]

3) The QB play in the league this year, overall, has been awful.  In the past, the QB position has an enormous strength for the E8.  No longer.  Anyone remember when the starting QB's in the league all at the same time were named Boltus (Wick), Keeley (Alfred), Kramer (Fisher), Juvan (Ithaca), and Sharpe (Springfield)?  That was less than 4 years ago.  Name one QB in the league today that can hang with these five, or where you can say that they are clearly better.  I don't see it.  Salisbury, Fisher, and Springfield all have "Running Back" QB's.  Alfred's QB situation is all over the place (their all-time leader not playing up to potential, hurt, etc.).  Frostburg's isn't too bad.  Ithaca and Hartwick's QB situation is no good to terrible.  Utica's Benkwitt might be the best of the bunch...but he should be improving at a faster rate, and his play this year has been as inconsistent as his entire team.

This is a really good point. Ithaca and Hartwick's QB's are terrible, and Alfred's have just been average. Volpe is okay, but nearly half of Frostburg's passing TD's came in one game. Those are four of the five teams that actually have passing QB's. The position is weak

[cstate19]

Pat,

CORTACA thread please?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Pat,

CORTACA thread please?

It took a neutral observer from the North Region to do it, but Cortaca Jug, 2011, is now in operation.

As long as I'm 'safely' here on Ithaca's home turf, note that it was a Cortland poster who didn't know that anyone can start a new topic - you don't have to beg Pat!

[Bombers798891]

Pat,

CORTACA thread please?

It took a neutral observer from the North Region to do it, but Cortaca Jug, 2011, is now in operation.

As long as I'm 'safely' here on Ithaca's home turf, note that it was a Cortland poster who didn't know that anyone can start a new topic - you don't have to beg Pat!

On the plus side, his post had no misspelled words.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat,

CORTACA thread please?

You don't need me to create one for you.

[wesleydad]

yanks99, excellent post.  i like your analysis of the e8.  only have one point that i would disagree with.  salisbury is one of the top 15 or so teams in the country.  i saw them play the last 2 weeks and i dont think they make it to the quarters in the east, i am already on record as saying i believe the will lose to del val if they play in the second round.  if they are sent to the south they would also likely lose in the second round based on the fact that they have already lost to wesley and would not likely change that result should they meet again.  i also do not think they could beat johns hopkins who they could possibly meet in the first round due to the north south breakdown of the south.  committee usually tries to avoid rematches in the first round.

[SUADC]

yanks99, excellent post.  i like your analysis of the e8.  only have one point that i would disagree with.  salisbury is one of the top 15 or so teams in the country.  i saw them play the last 2 weeks and i dont think they make it to the quarters in the east, i am already on record as saying i believe the will lose to del val if they play in the second round.  if they are sent to the south they would also likely lose in the second round based on the fact that they have already lost to wesley and would not likely change that result should they meet again.  i also do not think they could beat johns hopkins who they could possibly meet in the first round due to the north south breakdown of the south.  committee usually tries to avoid rematches in the first round.

Totally Disagree, I believe that Salisbury can hold their own in the playoffs and get pass the second round. They were a playoff team last year and returned most of those players and Delaware Valley has a young team, similar to that of Salisbury last year. In regards to playing John Hopkins, have you seen John Hopkins play anybody worthy yet. Salisbury is a experience team and I believe that they can beat Wesley this year if they play again (granted if it is not a rainy day...lol). Not taking anything away from John Hopkins, Delaware Valley, and definitely not Wesley. However, this Salisbury team is better than you think. I seen Salisbury, Wesley, John Hopkins, and Delaware Valley play this year and Salisbury can hold there own.

[wesleydad]

suadc, we have seen the same teams and just have a difference of opinion.  i think the difference is that you are hoping that salisbury can go past the second round and i do not have a routing interest in a specific team although i have ties to wesley.  i agree that salisbury can hold their own and have said so, i just dont think they beat wesley if they play them again rain, wind or calm and sunny.  i know how young del val is but it has not stopped them to this point, the widener game will be interesting and i will be looking to see if the d shuts down widener.  i think they will.  as far as hopkins goes, the game i saw was not the best one to judge, but i did see that their defense is pretty good.  salisbury has a chance to get past the second round, but i think it depends on who they get.  if they are the 3 seed in the east, they get del val at del val, tough game.  if they happen to be a 4 they go to mount.  if for some crazy reason they get shipped south they may get hopkins in round 1 and then wesley in round 2.  the nice thing about this is that we will see what happens when they play because unless something really weird happens these 4 teams will likely see each other at some point in the playoffs.

[SUADC]

suadc, we have seen the same teams and just have a difference of opinion.  i think the difference is that you are hoping that salisbury can go past the second round and i do not have a routing interest in a specific team although i have ties to wesley.  i agree that salisbury can hold their own and have said so, i just dont think they beat wesley if they play them again rain, wind or calm and sunny.  i know how young del val is but it has not stopped them to this point, the widener game will be interesting and i will be looking to see if the d shuts down widener.  i think they will.  as far as hopkins goes, the game i saw was not the best one to judge, but i did see that their defense is pretty good.  salisbury has a chance to get past the second round, but i think it depends on who they get.  if they are the 3 seed in the east, they get del val at del val, tough game.  if they happen to be a 4 they go to mount.  if for some crazy reason they get shipped south they may get hopkins in round 1 and then wesley in round 2.  the nice thing about this is that we will see what happens when they play because unless something really weird happens these 4 teams will likely see each other at some point in the playoffs.

wesleydad, I definitely can't wait for the playoffs. I respect each and everyone of those programs. I am hoping the playoffs will be a little more competitive after the second round.  But each of those programs we have been discussing, I enjoy watching them play each other and know each team will represent their respective programs to the fullest come game time.   

[lewdogg11]

JOHNS Hopkins people!  JOHNS.  It's kind of a big deal.  You should know this......mannnnn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGH2d1jBJu8

[AUKaz00]

JOHNS Hopkins people!  JOHNS.  It's kind of a big deal.  You should know this......mannnnn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGH2d1jBJu8

They should call it Joes Torre instead:

[bomber3]

Bombers you are correct my friend....
               What I have witnessed this Bombers season and in recent Seasons has been Gutless in terms of game management. I understand the personel has not been there of late but you play the game to win. Right?   Field Goal from the one?? Totally spinless call. Let the kids try at least. What if they made the TD? Changes the game.."Wouldn't that be fun!" to quote the legend...

More to the point, what do you lose by not getting it? 7-6 doesn't mean anything. Alfred would be backed up at their half yard line. Against Utica, this got them a safety. Just makes no sense to me. Are you trying to win the game 9-7?

I didn't see the game but being down by 1 point instead of 4 can be big if you need a FG to win it at the end of the game.  From a strategy standpoint going for the FG was the right move in my opinion. 

But they would have won the game if they went for it.  Your season is basically on the line at that point.  Call a time out, get fired up and score the TD.

To me, how they got there is why I didn't like it. An 86 yard run, the longest play in a few years, and you don't try to punch it in?

They definitely should have went for it but the play calling I didn't understand.  The running back just ran 90 yards down the field and I'm sure was gassed.  Why keep him in the next play and give him the ball?  I know Sulla wasn't available but do you really expect someone to have their legs under them after a huge play like that?  Then, the next two plays were pass plays when the tight end and Ingrao were the only receivers on the field.  If you're going to pass, at least put the passing threats in.  What they should have done is put Hendel in to run the ball.  Neumann has shown he is incapable of running a sneak so put in Hendel and give him the ball. 

The odds clearly say go for it on fourth down.  Even if you don't score a TD you have a fairly good shot at a safety (which also includes the ball back in decent field position).  I would say even if you don't score, odds are Alfred doesn't drive 99 yards down the field.

I've said it all year.  If this team was better in the red zone they would very easily be 6-3 or possibly even 7-2.  Look at their numbers in the red zone, they are terrible.  They only SCORE on 62% of trips to the red zone.  Their TD percentage is 37%.  Given the fact they have lost games by 2, 3, 5, 5, and 14, they need to look no further than their failures in the red zone.  They have the second best scoring defense in the conference and the best special teams. 

We'll see how things go this weekend.  No better ending in the nation other than a national title.  A home win against Cortland would make a lot of this season's pain go away.  Go Bombers.

[AUKaz00]

Following a potential solution to the E8's membership imbroglio, the Alfred State Pioneers (5-4) will play the Erie CC Kats (2-7) in the NJCAA Region III Football Championship on saterday.  Some championship.

[AUPepBand]

Following a potential solution to the E8's membership imbroglio, the Alfred State Pioneers (5-4) will play the Erie CC Kats (2-7) in the NJCAA Region III Football Championship on saterday.  Some championship.

So the Erie Kats, with 2 wins, one of which was over Alfred State, 23-21, back on Sept. 17, are playing for the NJCAA Region III Football Championship? Incredulousness.