FB: Empire 8

[maxpower]

I could see it maybe in the first round, if it's an Empire 8-ECFC type of matchup.

Maybe. I'm remembering the 2003 IC-Montclair playoff, where the MSU coach ran out onto the field George Brett-style, screaming at Welch, after IC scored to go up by 26 with two minutes left. Also, MSU scored again after that.

[Frank Rossi]

I could see it maybe in the first round, if it's an Empire 8-ECFC type of matchup.

I think a good 90+% of coaches in and out of Minnesota would tell you that a team up by 25 or more (which is four possessions) with eight minutes or less remaining in the fourth should do everything possible to ensure the clock runs (including running on every play since the only play in which the clock permanently stops is an incomplete pass).  This is irrelevant of the level of competition and caliber of game, and it usually follows by watching the opposing sideline to see if they're in more or less a "get us out of here" mode.

[maxpower]

This is probably too large a topic for this, but something seems hypocritical to me about us as sports fans living for those most improbable of comebacks, but then expecting teams to not do everything they can to prevent those comebacks (however improbable).

And after age 18, imo, it should be more embarrassing to see a team going easy on you than continuing to play hard.

[fisheralum91]

switching gears a bit- has anybody heard an update on Francis?

[Frank Rossi]

This is probably too large a topic for this, but something seems hypocritical to me about us as sports fans living for those most improbable of comebacks, but then expecting teams to not do everything they can to prevent those comebacks (however improbable).

And after age 18, imo, it should be more embarrassing to see a team going easy on you than continuing to play hard.

You need to look at the score, the conditions of the opposing sideline (and their play-calling) and the clock.  Improbable comebacks are one thing, but it takes the team that's behind to play with some sort of urgency or excitement to happen.  When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

[maxpower]

This is probably too large a topic for this, but something seems hypocritical to me about us as sports fans living for those most improbable of comebacks, but then expecting teams to not do everything they can to prevent those comebacks (however improbable).

And after age 18, imo, it should be more embarrassing to see a team going easy on you than continuing to play hard.

You need to look at the score, the conditions of the opposing sideline (and their play-calling) and the clock.  Improbable comebacks are one thing, but it takes the team that's behind to play with some sort of urgency or excitement to happen.  When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

I guess my somewhat minor point is that, i don't know the last time a team recovered three onside kicks... but the FIRST time they do some team is going to get crucified for not going up by four scores .

[pg04]

Someone on the MIAC board, a WW fan, made a good point that they may be doing things to give their next opponent something to think about...One can't forget that they still have games to play and they need to do what they can to prepare for it

[Frank Rossi]

This is probably too large a topic for this, but something seems hypocritical to me about us as sports fans living for those most improbable of comebacks, but then expecting teams to not do everything they can to prevent those comebacks (however improbable).

And after age 18, imo, it should be more embarrassing to see a team going easy on you than continuing to play hard.

You need to look at the score, the conditions of the opposing sideline (and their play-calling) and the clock.  Improbable comebacks are one thing, but it takes the team that's behind to play with some sort of urgency or excitement to happen.  When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

I guess my somewhat minor point is that, i don't know the last time a team recovered three onside kicks... but the FIRST time they do some team is going to get crucified for not going up by four scores .

25 is four scores.  I called the Rochester-Union game this year, in which Union was ahead 38-13, if memory serves.  Rochester was a Hail Mary away from winning (off the fingertips of a receiver).  However, the comeback started at the very beginning of the fourth quarter (either the final play of the 3rd or first play of the 4th).  I agree, 15 minutes is enough time to still blow four possessions.  Remember the Florida/Florida St. tie that made the Sugar Bowl build a rematch in the mid-1990s?  That was a 28-point game until basically the first play of the fourth quarter.  Yet, the timing rules were different back then (25-second play clock, clock did stop permanently on out-of-bound plays).  The game has indeed changed from back then making the likelihood even smaller with 15 minutes left, let alone 8.  Anyway, I was just taking a bit of umbrage with the idea that level of opposition is what makes the determination -- generally, coaches know when to put down the hammer and nails for the coffin unless they're trying to prove some sort of point or get revenge.

[ADDED BASED ON PG:  What's there to think about there?  I've heard this before and laugh at it.  I honestly would choose to show as little of my hand as possible on video for the next opponent -- the costs outweigh the benefits there.]

[WashedUp]

When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

Only a 24 point comeback, but it does have 3 straight onside kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkABO0VwCg

[Frank Rossi]

When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

Only a 24 point comeback, but it does have 3 straight onside kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkABO0VwCg

Answer:  17 years ago.  :-)

[Pat Coleman]

I could see it maybe in the first round, if it's an Empire 8-ECFC type of matchup.

I think a good 90+% of coaches in and out of Minnesota would tell you that a team up by 25 or more (which is four possessions) with eight minutes or less remaining in the fourth should do everything possible to ensure the clock runs (including running on every play since the only play in which the clock permanently stops is an incomplete pass).  This is irrelevant of the level of competition and caliber of game, and it usually follows by watching the opposing sideline to see if they're in more or less a "get us out of here" mode.

It's a playoff game. I would agree if it were Week 6.

[Frank Rossi]

I could see it maybe in the first round, if it's an Empire 8-ECFC type of matchup.

I think a good 90+% of coaches in and out of Minnesota would tell you that a team up by 25 or more (which is four possessions) with eight minutes or less remaining in the fourth should do everything possible to ensure the clock runs (including running on every play since the only play in which the clock permanently stops is an incomplete pass).  This is irrelevant of the level of competition and caliber of game, and it usually follows by watching the opposing sideline to see if they're in more or less a "get us out of here" mode.

It's a playoff game. I would agree if it were Week 6.

And you and me (with several coaches) will agree to disagree on this one.  Ain't America great?!

[WashedUp]

When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

Only a 24 point comeback, but it does have 3 straight onside kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkABO0VwCg

Answer:  17 years ago.  :-)

Happened this year too, though not at the end of a game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mul9bq-zp1c

[Frank Rossi]

When's the last time a team converted three onside kicks?  That's why 25 is a key number.

Only a 24 point comeback, but it does have 3 straight onside kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkABO0VwCg

Answer:  17 years ago.  :-)

Happened this year too, thought not at the end of a game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mul9bq-zp1c

So, not to nitpick, but any in the college or pro ranks since timing rules mean a lot with these things?  By the way, the last game had nine total onside kick attempts.  Just sayin'... :-)

[Pat Coleman]

Someone on the MIAC board, a WW fan, made a good point that they may be doing things to give their next opponent something to think about...One can't forget that they still have games to play and they need to do what they can to prepare for it

+1 Another good point. St. Thomas still has a game, perhaps two to prepare for. Whatever they do goes on video for UWW and a potential Stagg Bowl opponent. And again, it gives reps to a bunch of kids who could be needed in a key game. And you don't think Mount Union would have preferred to get its backup quarterback a few more reps last year, the way they keep losing Neal Seaman? There's no Cecil Shorts to plug in this year.

Frank, you're not a coach. But there are two choices: Go so plain vanilla that you show nothing about your hand, or put so much on video that you make the opponent prepare for everything. St. John Fisher played its whole quarterback situation close to the vest just this past week to force St. Thomas to prepare defensive game plans for two distinct offensive scenarios.