FB: Empire 8

[Pat Coleman]

I wonder if the play-calling might have been different is Fisher's 2's were in the game.

[AO]

How would you feel if you were a Bethel football player?  You beat St. Thomas last year and have to watch another 8-2 team get picked for the playoffs while you sit home and watch them get crushed by St. Thomas.  You were ranked #21 at the end of the regular season while SJF was not ranked at all.   

It's not the 2010 playoffs we were selecting teams for.

based upon what I saw from watching both Bethel and St. John Fisher play St. Thomas in 2011, it's quite clear Bethel was the better than st. john fisher -first string qb or 4th string qb.  Back in October you picked Bethel v St. Thomas as your game of the week.  This past week you predicted St. Thomas 24 - SJF 10.  Certainly under the current criteria used to select pool c teams, SJF gets the nod over Bethel especially since Bethel was probably not even in consideration to be selected based upon their place in the regional rankings--but if SJF and Bethel were to be matched up against each other, I don't know how SJF could be favored.

[bleedpurple]

So what's the cutoff? Seriously not trying to be a jerk here, but what's the point of no return? To me, yeah 11 minutes is a lot of time, but 42 points is a lot of points. Three passes isn't a lot, but would five be? Seven? Does it change if starters are involved?

This is where it gets murky, and why complaining is kind of a bad idea. Because you're always going to ruffle someone's feathers, but hey, they've done it too.

The cut off?

No idea but if you're dropping back to pass 3 times with under 1:00 left up by 20+ I'm pretty sure you're past the cut off.

I agree with Upstate.  Sounds like a team that needs to be put in their place to me. 

[Bombers798891]

So what's the cutoff? Seriously not trying to be a jerk here, but what's the point of no return? To me, yeah 11 minutes is a lot of time, but 42 points is a lot of points. Three passes isn't a lot, but would five be? Seven? Does it change if starters are involved?

This is where it gets murky, and why complaining is kind of a bad idea. Because you're always going to ruffle someone's feathers, but hey, they've done it too.

The cut off?

No idea but if you're dropping back to pass 3 times with under 1:00 left up by 20+ I'm pretty sure you're past the cut off.

I agree with Upstate.  Sounds like a team that needs to be put in their place to me. 

Another purely hypothetical: Do backups have a right to learn in a game situation? I mean, why bring in the backup QB at all if he's just going to hand off?

[maxpower]

I don't mean to oversimplify, but I'll say again that I can't believe that running up the score is an issue for anyone over the age of 18. If you're going to b***h about running up the score, then you can't ask for "respect" at the same time, or even in the same SEASON. Pat brought up the example of Empire 8 vs. ECFC. Sure, ECFC (or even NEFC) guys can whine about running up the score if they want. But if they do, they are admitting that they don't deserve to be taken seriously as a conference. Same goes for individual teams. You can't have it both ways.

EDIT: I should also say to the SJF guys that none of my posts are meant to go against SJF, who had an incredible season. They are meant to go against FA91, who is insufferable, and toward the argument about general running up of the score that has ensued.

[Frank Rossi]

Again, let me say what I said at the beginning of the day -- and I said it a bit to counter Pat since I know the whole Minnesota connection would create a little bit of back and forth (so I scapegoated here a bit).

Here's the thing:  25 points = 4 possessions.  That's a big deal with only 1/8 of the game left based on current timing rules.  The things to consider, regardless of scenario, are time, score and opposing team posture.  If the score is 70-45, then I might be more apt to keep playing hard for another drive at 8 minutes left than I would be at 25-0.  There's a big difference between 10 minutes left and 5 minutes left, as well.  Now, here's the biggest one to me:  you can read the sideline in two ways -- actively (like if the coaching staff is trying to talk down their own team and call mainly safe plays -- like Steve Johnson did with his Bethel team during a timeout he called vs. Mt. Union late in the 2010 Semis) and passively (the team fails to utilize their own timeouts during times when it would make the most sense under the conditions).  Score is NOT the only parameter here, but it's a starting parameter.  You just have to be practical as to how you play the scenario overall.

Someone asked if a team has a right to test second-stringers in real scenarios.  Sure.  However, in a playoff game, you would hope a team in such a situation had been leading by enough in at least one game to ensure that had happened earlier in the season without "running up the score" ramifications.  St. Thomas had such wins this season -- so that "test" was appropriate earlier in the season presumably.  While it's really a case-by-case situation, there are definitely parameters to use to determine the case you're in before creating lifelong enemies in the Division.

[Frank Rossi]

wow Frank,
I guess i expected more.
really? 
Ok
Max- I had you as a straight shooter.
Enjoy the off season boys.

91 -- As pg04 said, I was kidding around.  The whole idea is to relax a bit -- I respect your point of view, but calling out everyone and his brother in a back-and-forth fashion isn't going to help make your point (ask me, I know only too well).  I know it was a rough game, but keep your wits about you and remember to accentuate the positives regardless of what the other team or other fans do to try to embroil the situation -- SJF had a TREMENDOUS ending to an unexpectedly strong year.  The players and coaches deserve more talk about THAT than they do about the controversies surrounding the game.  I only got aggressive regarding the controversy to counter-balance Pat a bit once he began addressing it since I didn't agree with his specific stance on it.  Otherwise, it's that time to keep pounding your chest concerning how proud you are of this team and of what your expectations might be next year.

[Knightstalker]

Having no football team to cheer for I was hoping SJF would keep winning.  They got beat, but they had a great run and a great season.  Please stop the whining about running up the score, it is being a sore loser, just like getting in extra digs after winning the game is being a sore winner.  If it was first string players then it is running up the score but second and third stringers is not running up the score.  A pass with less than 30 seconds left is a questionable play call, but from what Pat says it was a short pass and SJF did not tackle.  SJF got Monkey-Stomped, deal with it.  They made the final eight, stop crying and start enjoying.

[fisheralum91]

Pg, Max, and Frank,
Maybe during the game I was over the top, but I dont think that I was terrible since.
I went back and read my posts, they were far from alarmist recently.
I all honesty- enjoy the off season and im sure we'll have much to talk about soon!
PG- I do overreact, in life too I suppose, bit of a character flaw but I am passionate in my beliefs.

[02 Warhawk]

pride- as musch as i dont want to- go UWW
that crap at the end of the game showed me a lot about ST T
no class
GO UWW!

wow...must have been something bad for this change of heart.

What happened?

[pg04]

pride- as musch as i dont want to- go UWW
that crap at the end of the game showed me a lot about ST T
no class
GO UWW!

wow...must have been something bad for this change of heart.

What happened?

Please, just let it go, don't make this can of worms open again.  Just read back the last few pages! 

[fisheralum91]

Thanks PG----cant undo certain things....Reads funny when ya calm down.!

[maxpower]

+k for the spirit of the board FA91. Much as i go after you sometimes, it's never a bad thing to have passionate fans of any team on here!

[fisheralum91]

Thanks Max-
God Bless us everyone 
+k to you as well!

[fisheralum91]

Congrats to Coach Vos- East Region Coach of the Year!