FB: Empire 8

[middlerelief]

Thought the weekend's games were pretty telling. There's a definite walk-before-you-can-run aspect before a team can challenge the top tier. Teams with programs that can sustain themselves  take a few tough licks from the big dogs before they can challenge the very top.

SJU had some rough early meetings with MUC, Linfield had some heart-breaking defeats vs. SJU. Wesley had some learning experiences at UWW. The Wolverines learned, got stronger and now now are the undeniable number three after giving Mount all it could handle.  As for UST, the jury is still out, but they at least got the big-league baptism (and I've got my personal biases.)

The exception to this pattern is UWW, of course. And it simply is a remarkable program, going from 7-3 to seven straight Staggs. They were impressive yesterday from game-planning through execution, playing one of the more flawless games I've seen. 

There's a lot in the post I agree with and seems logical.  Building step by step type of a program.

UST who was a sub .500 program to all of a sudden 36-4 the last 3 seasons, and even UWW, who prior to the Stagg run was 32-28 in the prior 6 seasons to all of sudden earth pounders has always seemed somewhat suspicious .

But, perhaps it shows what happens when a school suddenly invests in the program - you can pull better recruits from high school, you can also pull transfers from higher divisions where they don't feel like it was a big downgrade from a facilities standpoint -

Will a school in the East be willing to do the same or is there too much choice?

[Frank Rossi]

Cortland, RPI and TCNJ just called.  They said something about checking out their facilities before painting with a broad brush.  :-)

[HScoach]

Thought the weekend's games were pretty telling. There's a definite walk-before-you-can-run aspect before a team can challenge the top tier. Teams with programs that can sustain themselves  take a few tough licks from the big dogs before they can challenge the very top.

SJU had some rough early meetings with MUC, Linfield had some heart-breaking defeats vs. SJU. Wesley had some learning experiences at UWW. The Wolverines learned, got stronger and now now are the undeniable number three after giving Mount all it could handle.  As for UST, the jury is still out, but they at least got the big-league baptism (and I've got my personal biases.)

The exception to this pattern is UWW, of course. And it simply is a remarkable program, going from 7-3 to seven straight Staggs. They were impressive yesterday from game-planning through execution, playing one of the more flawless games I've seen. 

Would have loved to have seen new blood, but these are two fine teams and should be a great game to watch. That said, my probability for this Stagg dropped to about 50 percent. Had either of the newbies made it, I would have had reservations by now.

I agree that a challenger needs to see MTU and UWW first hand a time or two before their a legit threat to take them out.

I disagree that UWW is an exception.  They played Mount twice in the regular season before they started their run. 

And even as someone who is one of the Purples, I'm finding this boring too.  Not boring enough to wish Mount would not make it, but boring nonetheless.

[repete]

Forgot about the UWW-MUC earlier meetings. Thanks for the catch!

For  some reason, I'm not as bored this year as the last couple. I think the reason is the way the semis played out: the first was as exciting as the second was clinical. Doesn't mean a thing Friday, but just adds to the angles from a fan's perspective.

[pg04]

I am going to beat the dead horse again.  I see a lot on here and the twitter universe about how if we don't like the final then beat the teams.  Well if it is not noticeable, we are fans and not players.  We have no control over what happens on the field.  It irks me so much when people make that illogical argument.  We say it is boring as fans... There is NOTHING we can do to change.  None of us are saying they don't deserve it.  If I read BEAT THEM one more time I may just go into hibernation!

[Pat Coleman]

Players, coaches and supporters of teams can all influence change. Some more than others, but it can be done. It's certainly not just players.

[fisheralum91]

Pat,
I agree that there are certain things that can be done- from the Board of Trustees on down.
It takes the Board and the College President to agree to make someting a priority.
First and foremost every person in Higher Ed will tell you that academics are the focus and number one priority.
Utilizing resources to promote Athletics must come from above, and not infringe with the Mission of the college and work to enhance the overall college experience.
I have no idea what Mount Union or UWW have in their respective budgets for the football programs, but obviously there is a priority level that some other institutions of higher learning dont have.
Im not saying that other Colleges dont spend as much or try as hard, it is just painfully obvious that there are different levels of prioritization.

[Upstate]

I think it's fairly obvious that the following underclassmen need to transfer to Fisher.

-Anthony Acevedo (WR-Utica)
-John Babin (WR-Cortland)
-Mike Herman (QB-RPI)
-Austin Dweyr (RB-Alfred)
-Mike Raplee (DL-Alfred)
-Dan Avento (LB-Montclair)
-Kevin Cloghessy (DB-Montclair)
-Nick Bricker (LB-TCNJ)
-John Lavelle (OL-Del Val)
-Terrance Osborne (DB-Del Val)
-Tyre Coleman (DL-Hobart)
-Devin Worthington (LB-Hobart)
-Billy Chapman (TE-Middlebury)
-Dylan Rushe (K-Endicott)

I will forward these names to the Fisher admissions department, they will be looking for your applications!

Oh I've managed to get them to waive the application fee, so you're welcome!

[Doid23]

Pat,
I agree that there are certain things that can be done- from the Board of Trustees on down.
It takes the Board and the College President to agree to make someting a priority.
First and foremost every person in Higher Ed will tell you that academics are the focus and number one priority.
Utilizing resources to promote Athletics must come from above, and not infringe with the Mission of the college and work to enhance the overall college experience.
I have no idea what Mount Union or UWW have in their respective budgets for the football programs, but obviously there is a priority level that some other institutions of higher learning dont have.
Im not saying that other Colleges dont spend as much or try as hard, it is just painfully obvious that there are different levels of prioritization.

Money and facilities are all well and good, and important, but the most important factor in a schools "prioritizing" football or sports in general, is the admissions department. All things being equal, lower your admission standards, and your team gets better. This is a general statement, not a specific one, since I haven't been involved in this for so long, but back in my day, that was the rule.

[HScoach]

I think you're missing the most important factor.  COACHING.  Both in capability and stability.

At Mount, it all started solely because Larry Kehres.  When the run started the campus was a mess and the football facilities were well below average.  It's now state of the art, but because LK and alumni donors made it so.  Playing on ESPN those first couple times started a wave of Raider pride that made the alumni get out their check books for campus improvements that just few years prior were locked and untouchable.  Given stability at the top, success breads success.  In Ohio, unless one of the lower D1 or D2 schools come up with money, the best of the Ohio talent goes to Mount.   IMHO, once LK retires, Mount is done.  The only thing Mount has in Ohio that 10+ other schools have is LK and the history he built.  Once he retires, the tradition is "history" ala Augustana.

Can't speak for UWW.  Though I would guess that they caught lighting in a bottle with the first studly group that carried them to a Stagg and now it's rolling along because of good facilities and the fact that there's no D1 and little D2 competition in Wisconsin for talent.  If you're a Wisconsin (or nearby Chicago area) HS player that doesn't get D1 money, where else you you look to play other than Whitewater?  State tuition, great coaching and a program with history breeds more success.

In my opinion, the key for someone to crash the party is a mix of great coaching that is building for the long term (not using it as a stepping stone) at a place that takes sports seriously that is improving their facilities.  Wesley is getting really close to this with the depth of their roster and Coach Drass staying there.  The other obvious one is MHB with the facilities they're building.  Once they convince the average Texas HS player that D3 is a viable football choice and not just glorified HS ball,  look out.  There is a ton of untapped talent in Texas.

[Bombers798891]

Players, coaches and supporters of teams can all influence change. Some more than others, but it can be done. It's certainly not just players.

Players, coaches, administrators, and certain fans yes, if they've got power and money. But what exactly can the average fan (which I think most of us are) do to influence change on that level? What could Max and I have done these last few years to prevent, for example, Ithaca's offensive line from becoming a black hole of awfulness?

[Bombers798891]

Pat,
I agree that there are certain things that can be done- from the Board of Trustees on down.
It takes the Board and the College President to agree to make someting a priority.
First and foremost every person in Higher Ed will tell you that academics are the focus and number one priority.
Utilizing resources to promote Athletics must come from above, and not infringe with the Mission of the college and work to enhance the overall college experience.
I have no idea what Mount Union or UWW have in their respective budgets for the football programs, but obviously there is a priority level that some other institutions of higher learning dont have.
Im not saying that other Colleges dont spend as much or try as hard, it is just painfully obvious that there are different levels of prioritization.

And that level can ebb and flow in individual schools over the years. At Ithaca, for example, Jim Butterfield got more help from administration than Mike Welch ever did. In fact, I've heard that one of the reasons Jerry Boyes didn't coach Ithaca was that, while the administration wanted him, he basically said that he wanted the same kind of support Jim got. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, he decided it wasn't for him. Can't blame the guy. Can't blame Mike if it drives him up a wall.

As a football fan and professor, I'm torn on this issue. I believe that academics should always come first, and lowering standards to let in good players is a bad practice. That said, if you're going to have athletic teams, don't hamstring them. Otherwise, what's the point?

[Upstate]

Pat,
I agree that there are certain things that can be done- from the Board of Trustees on down.
It takes the Board and the College President to agree to make someting a priority.
First and foremost every person in Higher Ed will tell you that academics are the focus and number one priority.
Utilizing resources to promote Athletics must come from above, and not infringe with the Mission of the college and work to enhance the overall college experience.
I have no idea what Mount Union or UWW have in their respective budgets for the football programs, but obviously there is a priority level that some other institutions of higher learning dont have.
Im not saying that other Colleges dont spend as much or try as hard, it is just painfully obvious that there are different levels of prioritization.

And that level can ebb and flow in individual schools over the years. At Ithaca, for example, Jim Butterfield got more help from administration than Mike Welch ever did. In fact, I've heard that one of the reasons Jerry Boyes didn't coach Ithaca was that, while the administration wanted him, he basically said that he wanted the same kind of support Jim got. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, he decided it wasn't for him. Can't blame the guy. Can't blame Mike if it drives him up a wall.

As a football fan and professor, I'm torn on this issue. I believe that academics should always come first, and lowering standards to let in good players is a bad practice. That said, if you're going to have athletic teams, don't hamstring them. Otherwise, what's the point?

If you're good enough and have a pulse with half a brain the football coaches can, more often than not, get you in.

[Bombers798891]

Pat,
I agree that there are certain things that can be done- from the Board of Trustees on down.
It takes the Board and the College President to agree to make someting a priority.
First and foremost every person in Higher Ed will tell you that academics are the focus and number one priority.
Utilizing resources to promote Athletics must come from above, and not infringe with the Mission of the college and work to enhance the overall college experience.
I have no idea what Mount Union or UWW have in their respective budgets for the football programs, but obviously there is a priority level that some other institutions of higher learning dont have.
Im not saying that other Colleges dont spend as much or try as hard, it is just painfully obvious that there are different levels of prioritization.

And that level can ebb and flow in individual schools over the years. At Ithaca, for example, Jim Butterfield got more help from administration than Mike Welch ever did. In fact, I've heard that one of the reasons Jerry Boyes didn't coach Ithaca was that, while the administration wanted him, he basically said that he wanted the same kind of support Jim got. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, he decided it wasn't for him. Can't blame the guy. Can't blame Mike if it drives him up a wall.

As a football fan and professor, I'm torn on this issue. I believe that academics should always come first, and lowering standards to let in good players is a bad practice. That said, if you're going to have athletic teams, don't hamstring them. Otherwise, what's the point?

If you're good enough and have a pulse and half a brain they can get you in.

Of course they can. The point isn't if they can, but if they will.

[Upstate]

Pat,
I agree that there are certain things that can be done- from the Board of Trustees on down.
It takes the Board and the College President to agree to make someting a priority.
First and foremost every person in Higher Ed will tell you that academics are the focus and number one priority.
Utilizing resources to promote Athletics must come from above, and not infringe with the Mission of the college and work to enhance the overall college experience.
I have no idea what Mount Union or UWW have in their respective budgets for the football programs, but obviously there is a priority level that some other institutions of higher learning dont have.
Im not saying that other Colleges dont spend as much or try as hard, it is just painfully obvious that there are different levels of prioritization.

And that level can ebb and flow in individual schools over the years. At Ithaca, for example, Jim Butterfield got more help from administration than Mike Welch ever did. In fact, I've heard that one of the reasons Jerry Boyes didn't coach Ithaca was that, while the administration wanted him, he basically said that he wanted the same kind of support Jim got. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, he decided it wasn't for him. Can't blame the guy. Can't blame Mike if it drives him up a wall.

As a football fan and professor, I'm torn on this issue. I believe that academics should always come first, and lowering standards to let in good players is a bad practice. That said, if you're going to have athletic teams, don't hamstring them. Otherwise, what's the point?

If you're good enough and have a pulse and half a brain they can get you in.

Of course they can. The point isn't if they can, but if they will.

If the coaches will?