FB: Empire 8

[Knightstalker]

McQuery should have called the cops, period.  He should have stepped in and stopped what he saw and called the cops.  If he had done the right thing this would have been taken care of a long time ago.

[PBR...]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.

He did report is to his superiors and told the police chief what mcqueary told him. From numerous people who work in children youth services I have been told that when an accusation comes up in molestation all parties are told to back off and that they will not be updated any further in the investigation. Mostly so it protects all parties, while the investigation goes on. This way it protects the child and his family if true, and protects the accused if a child falsely accuses someone. And anytime you might ask for a update your are basically told to but out and no further information will be forthcoming that it's not your problem anymore. ** Now all that said I am still with holding judgement on all parties including paterno until all the facts come out if that is ever. Hopefully when spanier and curley court cases come up next month A LOT more information and facts will be come public when people are under oath and hard evidence is being used.  Then for me it will be time to wield the torches and pitchforks and have people burned at the stake in the town square. If the facts lead to paterno or whoever then so be it....but right now to me wtf ever happened to due process and this lynch mob mentality is disappointing in many ways.

[PBR...]

McQuery should have called the cops, period.  He should have stepped in and stopped what he saw and called the cops.  If he had done the right thing this would have been taken care of a long time ago.

Everyone is in agreement on this...although we like to think we would think/act not everyone would/does.

[Knightstalker]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.

He did report is to his superiors and told the police chief what mcqueary told him. From numerous people who work in children youth services I have been told that when an accusation comes up in molestation all parties are told to back off and that they will not be updated any further in the investigation. Mostly so it protects all parties, while the investigation goes on. This way it protects the child and his family if true, and protects the accused if a child falsely accuses someone. And anytime you might ask for a update your are basically told to but out and no further information will be forthcoming that it's not your problem anymore. ** Now all that said I am still with holding judgement on all parties including paterno until all the facts come out if that is ever. Hopefully when spanier and curley court cases come up next month A LOT more information and facts will be come public when people are under oath and hard evidence is being used.  Then for me it will be time to wield the torches and pitchforks and have people burned at the stake in the town square. If the facts lead to paterno or whoever then so be it....but right now to me wtf ever happened to due process and this lynch mob mentality is disappointing in many ways.

I agree with this, the NCAA should have waited to act.  They should have waited for the legal cases to conclude and also it would have been fairer to the current athletes who had nothing to do with any of this.  All the NCAA had to do was hold a press conference and say they needed to let the legal system do their job and it would have given them time to investigate properly.

[Jonny Utah]

McQuery should have called the cops, period.  He should have stepped in and stopped what he saw and called the cops.  If he had done the right thing this would have been taken care of a long time ago.

I agree but I think seeing something like that is so shocking, a reasonable person might not be able to even process what they are actually seeing, and then a reasonable person might have a hard time even knowing what to do next.  At the very least he should have gone to the cops that night, or found out who the boy was.

And this ties into that whole coverup mentality.  I don't think a lot of the people involved in this coverup maliciously and intentionally tried to hide anything, they simply wanted someone else to handle it.  And not to defend them at all, but it's almost like some sort of human defense mechanism.  Each person basically told themselves that the right thing would be done, and that someone else would handle it, or that they weren't directly involved, or that they didn't want to accuse someone of something that they might not have done, etc, etc.

[PBR...]

McQuery should have called the cops, period.  He should have stepped in and stopped what he saw and called the cops.  If he had done the right thing this would have been taken care of a long time ago.

I agree but I think seeing something like that is so shocking, a reasonable person might not be able to even process what they are actually seeing, and then a reasonable person might have a hard time even knowing what to do next.  At the very least he should have gone to the cops that night, or found out who the boy was.

And this ties into that whole coverup mentality.  I don't think a lot of the people involved in this coverup maliciously and intentionally tried to hide anything, they simply wanted someone else to handle it.  And not to defend them at all, but it's almost like some sort of human defense mechanism.  Each person basically told themselves that the right thing would be done, and that someone else would handle it, or that they weren't directly involved, or that they didn't want to accuse someone of something that they might not have done, etc, etc.

Agree totally Utes... I can see how if you saw that you would have to step back and say did I just see that? especially when it's someone you know and considered a friend. We would like to think we would do the right thing and call the police but who really knows. Plus the weird thing is that kid is considered victim #2. They still cannot find that kid or his name. He has not come forward either which is very weird. Maybe he is living his life and has come to some sort of peace with it and doesn't want the publicity for him and his family now. Kinda strange how no one can find this guy or a name.

[Jonny Utah]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.

He did report is to his superiors and told the police chief what mcqueary told him. From numerous people who work in children youth services I have been told that when an accusation comes up in molestation all parties are told to back off and that they will not be updated any further in the investigation. Mostly so it protects all parties, while the investigation goes on. This way it protects the child and his family if true, and protects the accused if a child falsely accuses someone. And anytime you might ask for a update your are basically told to but out and no further information will be forthcoming that it's not your problem anymore. ** Now all that said I am still with holding judgement on all parties including paterno until all the facts come out if that is ever. Hopefully when spanier and curley court cases come up next month A LOT more information and facts will be come public when people are under oath and hard evidence is being used.  Then for me it will be time to wield the torches and pitchforks and have people burned at the stake in the town square. If the facts lead to paterno or whoever then so be it....but right now to me wtf ever happened to due process and this lynch mob mentality is disappointing in many ways.

Yea I agree, and if the school did notify the police, the police would be the ones here who would be the most at fault.  You are somewhat correct on the child investigation part, but if the police were notified they should have contacted Sandusky as soon as possible, found out who the boy was, and then interview the boy and/or his family, and of course McQuery.  When someone actually witnesses an actual rape like that, the police have 100% probable cause to arrest without a warrant once they can identify the boy and his age.  It doesn't sound like any investigation took place at this time however, so it makes me wonder if the police were actually notified, or if they blundered this horribly.

[PBR...]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.

He did report is to his superiors and told the police chief what mcqueary told him. From numerous people who work in children youth services I have been told that when an accusation comes up in molestation all parties are told to back off and that they will not be updated any further in the investigation. Mostly so it protects all parties, while the investigation goes on. This way it protects the child and his family if true, and protects the accused if a child falsely accuses someone. And anytime you might ask for a update your are basically told to but out and no further information will be forthcoming that it's not your problem anymore. ** Now all that said I am still with holding judgement on all parties including paterno until all the facts come out if that is ever. Hopefully when spanier and curley court cases come up next month A LOT more information and facts will be come public when people are under oath and hard evidence is being used.  Then for me it will be time to wield the torches and pitchforks and have people burned at the stake in the town square. If the facts lead to paterno or whoever then so be it....but right now to me wtf ever happened to due process and this lynch mob mentality is disappointing in many ways.

Yea I agree, and if the school did notify the police, the police would be the ones here who would be the most at fault.  You are somewhat correct on the child investigation part, but if the police were notified they should have contacted Sandusky as soon as possible, found out who the boy was, and then interview the boy and/or his family, and of course McQuery.  When someone actually witnesses an actual rape like that, the police have 100% probable cause to arrest without a warrant once they can identify the boy and his age.  It doesn't sound like any investigation took place at this time however, so it makes me wonder if the police were actually notified, or if they blundered this horribly.

Yes it's in the grand jury testimony. Schultz acknowledges that meeting with Paterno took place and there are also emails where Schultz discusses Sandusky with his 2nd in command. Other hard thing is Mcqueary has not made it clear what he saw. First he reported seeing rape then later recanted to seeing sandusky in the shower with the boy and his arm around the boy with no actual rape. He claims it's hard to remember the exact words he used 10 years ago in a conversation. I have to agree with him there. I can't remember what I talked to my wife about last night let alone 10 years ago...

[Jonny Utah]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.

He did report is to his superiors and told the police chief what mcqueary told him. From numerous people who work in children youth services I have been told that when an accusation comes up in molestation all parties are told to back off and that they will not be updated any further in the investigation. Mostly so it protects all parties, while the investigation goes on. This way it protects the child and his family if true, and protects the accused if a child falsely accuses someone. And anytime you might ask for a update your are basically told to but out and no further information will be forthcoming that it's not your problem anymore. ** Now all that said I am still with holding judgement on all parties including paterno until all the facts come out if that is ever. Hopefully when spanier and curley court cases come up next month A LOT more information and facts will be come public when people are under oath and hard evidence is being used.  Then for me it will be time to wield the torches and pitchforks and have people burned at the stake in the town square. If the facts lead to paterno or whoever then so be it....but right now to me wtf ever happened to due process and this lynch mob mentality is disappointing in many ways.

Yea I agree, and if the school did notify the police, the police would be the ones here who would be the most at fault.  You are somewhat correct on the child investigation part, but if the police were notified they should have contacted Sandusky as soon as possible, found out who the boy was, and then interview the boy and/or his family, and of course McQuery.  When someone actually witnesses an actual rape like that, the police have 100% probable cause to arrest without a warrant once they can identify the boy and his age.  It doesn't sound like any investigation took place at this time however, so it makes me wonder if the police were actually notified, or if they blundered this horribly.

Yes it's in the grand jury testimony. Schultz acknowledges that meeting with Paterno took place and there are also emails where Schultz discusses Sandusky with his 2nd in command. Other hard thing is Mcqueary has not made it clear what he saw. First he reported seeing rape then later recanted to seeing sandusky in the shower with the boy and his arm around the boy with no actual rape. He claims it's hard to remember the exact words he used 10 years ago in a conversation. I have to agree with him there. I can't remember what I talked to my wife about last night let alone 10 years ago...

Yea, that's why it is the responsibility of the police to interview these witnesses and record their statements.  You saw in that Duke rape case that the police didn't even interview those who were arrested!

[sjfcards]

The Penn State punishment came up in conversation again last night and I heard an interesting take on what the proper course of action against the school should have been: how about allowing football to continue at Penn State without any restrictions (and therefore not punishing players and coaches that had nothing to do with the scandal), however, the NCAA could force the school to donate all football generated profits to a charity for victims of sex abuse. An independent auditor could be used to determine the proper amount paid for by the NCAA.

Not sure how I feel about that, but my first reaction was that it was a good idea. Penn state could still enjoy some benefit from the football program via big 10 bowl money and the big 10 network, but the punishment is still plenty severe to the administration. Thoughts?

[PBR...]

The Penn State punishment came up in conversation again last night and I heard an interesting take on what the proper course of action against the school should have been: how about allowing football to continue at Penn State without any restrictions (and therefore not punishing players and coaches that had nothing to do with the scandal), however, the NCAA could force the school to donate all football generated profits to a charity for victims of sex abuse. An independent auditor could be used to determine the proper amount paid for by the NCAA.

Not sure how I feel about that, but my first reaction was that it was a good idea. Penn state could still enjoy some benefit from the football program via big 10 bowl money and the big 10 network, but the punishment is still plenty severe to the administration. Thoughts?

Good in theory but not very practical. Bowl game profit sharing is being donated to children services for the next 4 years. Biggest problem with that is that football pays for all the other sports at psu (as with most schools) including intramural and other programs. There would be drastic cuts probably around 50% or a little more by most accounts if you take that money away. Basically things like softball/baseball/gymnastics/fencing/etc and intramural sports would have to be cut since they all operate in the red. Then factor in cutting the scholarships and telling kids we no longer have your sport playing at psu plus laying off all the coaches and trainers etc... If you don't make those cuts the only other way to come up with the money is to raise tuition in a huge way which is a huge penalty on the current students. psu has a very large endowment but that cannot be used to support sports.

[Knightstalker]

I agree that Penn State kind of let this one investigation (and possibly a one sided investigation) be the official investigation, but I'll never buy the "Paterno reported this to his superiors and that is all he could have done" excuse.  I've heard that one a bunch of times and I'm not buying it, unless McQuery didn't actually tell him that he saw a boy being raped.  If Paterno did hear from McQuery that a boy was raped by Sandusky, and Sandusky continued to be around the campus in front of Paterno, that simply doesn't fly with me.  If I'm the coach, I'm calling the police chief and asking what happend with the investagtion of a boy who you know was raped.  Again, if Paterno didn't know (which I still would not rule out), then he might be ok, but since he isn't alive, it is a little unfair since he can't even defend himself.

But that is what happens with cover ups.  Only 1 or 2 people officially cover it up, but everyone else turns their head and hopes someone else handles it and wishes it never comes back.

He did report is to his superiors and told the police chief what mcqueary told him. From numerous people who work in children youth services I have been told that when an accusation comes up in molestation all parties are told to back off and that they will not be updated any further in the investigation. Mostly so it protects all parties, while the investigation goes on. This way it protects the child and his family if true, and protects the accused if a child falsely accuses someone. And anytime you might ask for a update your are basically told to but out and no further information will be forthcoming that it's not your problem anymore. ** Now all that said I am still with holding judgement on all parties including paterno until all the facts come out if that is ever. Hopefully when spanier and curley court cases come up next month A LOT more information and facts will be come public when people are under oath and hard evidence is being used.  Then for me it will be time to wield the torches and pitchforks and have people burned at the stake in the town square. If the facts lead to paterno or whoever then so be it....but right now to me wtf ever happened to due process and this lynch mob mentality is disappointing in many ways.

This is also basically true if you file charges as an adult.  Three women in my family were molested and abused, 2 of them my mother and aunt who were abused by a family member and a music teacher.  Basically back when it happened to them they were told to shut up and get on with their lives although the music teacher very quietly had his reputation destroyed, I guess that is what happens when Daddy is friends with the local newspaper publisher.  The other is someone very close to me who was abused by a cousin while she lived with his family when she was a teenager.  She pressed charges, was disowned by her family but stuck it out and saw the bastard go to prison.  We were told during the investigation that we would hear nothing for quite a while until it reached the trial phase.  The police officers who arrested the bastard and the detective from the prosecutors office took great joy when he was sentenced.  The prosecutors detective had to almost restrain me when I saw him for the first time and apologized that she couldn't let me have five minutes with him in a locked room with no surveillance.  I really liked her, she was extremely tough, competent and compassionate all at the same time.  Most of the abuse cases she investigated ended up either in a plea bargain or conviction, either way the bastards got jail time and are registered sex offenders.

[fulbakdad]

I've worked in a State Prison for 21 years.  One of my past jobs was doing the security for Parole hearings and Parole revocation hearings.  I can't tell you how many wives of offenders I heard either denying the offense took place, defending the offender, ignoring the offense while it was occuring, or trashing the victim.  A couple times while reading articles of what happened, I thought to myself, boy it seems like Penn State was the wife in this case. 

I myself am very glad that the NCAA stepped up to the plate and took action.  Is it fair to the players at Penn State?  Maybe not, but they all have the option of moving on to another school to play.  This hits the DI school where it hurts the most, the pocketbook.  And there are many other programs that are making sure this doesn't happen at thier school as we post on this board, therefore providing a deterent so it doesn't happen again.

[PBR...]

I've worked in a State Prison for 21 years.  One of my past jobs was doing the security for Parole hearings and Parole revocation hearings.  I can't tell you how many wives of offenders I heard either denying the offense took place, defending the offender, ignoring the offense while it was occuring, or trashing the victim.  A couple times while reading articles of what happened, I thought to myself, boy it seems like Penn State was the wife in this case. 

I myself am very glad that the NCAA stepped up to the plate and took action.  Is it fair to the players at Penn State?  Maybe not, but they all have the option of moving on to another school to play.  This hits the DI school where it hurts the most, the pocketbook.  And there are many other programs that are making sure this doesn't happen at thier school as we post on this board, therefore providing a deterent so it doesn't happen again.

Unfortunately what is happening now is what we are seeing in a rush to judgement with torches and pitchforks....Which is why most sensible people said wait until after the court trials are finished and see what if any new information comes out. Amazing the changes already to the Freeh report that some hold as "gospel" yet major changes are now happening to it with wrong information and mistakes. He never interviewed 5 of the 6 major players in this mess and Freeh admits he had to make educated guesses and conclusions. I have to admit at first I doubted some who were talking about this, but there is something much larger here at stake that people seem to be covering up. You can't tell me the ncaa takes 5 years to investigate usc and 2 years to investigate miami yet does an 8 day investigation on psu? Something is not right here and many are starting to question it including myself now.... If Freeh ran the FBI like he did this report no wonder he was pushed out as head of the FBI.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/attorney-amendments-to-penn-states-freeh-report-disconcerting-646047/#ixzz21dmYp047

[Jonny Utah]

I've worked in a State Prison for 21 years.  One of my past jobs was doing the security for Parole hearings and Parole revocation hearings.  I can't tell you how many wives of offenders I heard either denying the offense took place, defending the offender, ignoring the offense while it was occuring, or trashing the victim.  A couple times while reading articles of what happened, I thought to myself, boy it seems like Penn State was the wife in this case. 

I myself am very glad that the NCAA stepped up to the plate and took action.  Is it fair to the players at Penn State?  Maybe not, but they all have the option of moving on to another school to play.  This hits the DI school where it hurts the most, the pocketbook.  And there are many other programs that are making sure this doesn't happen at thier school as we post on this board, therefore providing a deterent so it doesn't happen again.

Unfortunately what is happening now is what we are seeing in a rush to judgement with torches and pitchforks....Which is why most sensible people said wait until after the court trials are finished and see what if any new information comes out. Amazing the changes already to the Freeh report that some hold as "gospel" yet major changes are now happening to it with wrong information and mistakes. He never interviewed 5 of the 6 major players in this mess and Freeh admits he had to make educated guesses and conclusions. I have to admit at first I doubted some who were talking about this, but there is something much larger here at stake that people seem to be covering up. You can't tell me the ncaa takes 5 years to investigate usc and 2 years to investigate miami yet does an 8 day investigation on psu? Something is not right here and many are starting to question it including myself now.... If Freeh ran the FBI like he did this report no wonder he was pushed out as head of the FBI.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/attorney-amendments-to-penn-states-freeh-report-disconcerting-646047/#ixzz21dmYp047

Well I think the Freeh investigation is basically Penn State's investigation of itself which it turned over to the NCAA for punishment (which is basically what schools do when they self report anyway)  The punishment needed to come quick because of the upcomming season, and it seems that Penn State wanted to get things moving as well. 

I wonder however what would happen if the Freeh report cleared Penn State of any wrong doing, or if the report added more doubt on the charges against the three administrators.  Would the NCAA have accepted those findings?