FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

Salisbury is coming back loaded. Don't overlook them.

+K to PBR for getting some D3 Football discussons started.

Can you guys or others fill PBR in on what Ithaca and Alfred have returning and what they are projecting for the upcoming season? Ithaca has seemed to fallen down a notch the last few seasons any chance they are back on the upswing? Can Alfred keep the uptick going? How does Utica look this year?

Ithaca's a couple of years away from being competitive, IMO.

It's strange. The Bombers return maybe 9 of 11 starters on offense, but they're probably still going to be hard-pressed to score points, because all of their returners (save Ingaro) will have to significantly improve

They scored a major coup in Scavo, getting a QB Fisher and Alfred both wanted and who (presumably) will be a four-year starter. But as for what they have around him? Bleh.

Ingaro's going to be solid at WR, but he's not a game-breaker. No other player on the roster had more than 120 yards  receiving or more than one touchdown. I've heard Ithaca's actually experimented with Jason Hendel at WR some (yes, really)

The running backs are all back, but neither of them did anything noteworthy: Sulla averaged just 3.7 YPC, and Naiden's 4.3 average was inflated due to one 86-yard run. Take that away, and he was even worse than Sulla, 3.3 YPC.

The entire offensive line returns as well, which normally is a great thing. But considering the offensive line was horrible last year, I'll believe it when I see it.

Defense is going to be interesting. Ithaca loses two really, really good corners, and a safety. They return Carter, Cimino, and Matuzak at LB, and maybe Clarke will play after missing most of last season, but I don't know what they have on DL either.

I think I predicted 4-6 for Ithaca this season, and unless the OL takes a giant step forward, even that might be optimistic, Scavo or no Scavo

[emma17]

I polled myself and asked "who has the best summer discussion board"? and 100% of the respondents voted the E-8 (this is a bit dlipish- which btw I do appreciate his style).

Thanks for the excellent and tempered discussion on Penn St and now on projected finishes. Having seen Salisbury at UWW last year, I was very impressed w the talent- yours is a tough conference. I imagine Buff State is going to give UWW a better game than most people outside the E8 think.

[PBR...]

I polled myself and asked "who has the best summer discussion board"? and 100% of the respondents voted the E-8 (this is a bit dlipish- which btw I do appreciate his style).

Thanks for the excellent and tempered discussion on Penn St and now on projected finishes. Having seen Salisbury at UWW last year, I was very impressed w the talent- yours is a tough conference. I imagine Buff State is going to give UWW a better game than most people outside the E8 think.

Interesting wording...ha ha!

[PBR...]

Salisbury is coming back loaded. Don't overlook them.

+K to PBR for getting some D3 Football discussons started.

Can you guys or others fill PBR in on what Ithaca and Alfred have returning and what they are projecting for the upcoming season? Ithaca has seemed to fallen down a notch the last few seasons any chance they are back on the upswing? Can Alfred keep the uptick going? How does Utica look this year?

Ithaca's a couple of years away from being competitive, IMO.

It's strange. The Bombers return maybe 9 of 11 starters on offense, but they're probably still going to be hard-pressed to score points, because all of their returners (save Ingaro) will have to significantly improve

They scored a major coup in Scavo, getting a QB Fisher and Alfred both wanted and who (presumably) will be a four-year starter. But as for what they have around him? Bleh.

Ingaro's going to be solid at WR, but he's not a game-breaker. No other player on the roster had more than 120 yards  receiving or more than one touchdown. I've heard Ithaca's actually experimented with Jason Hendel at WR some (yes, really)

The running backs are all back, but neither of them did anything noteworthy: Sulla averaged just 3.7 YPC, and Naiden's 4.3 average was inflated due to one 86-yard run. Take that away, and he was even worse than Sulla, 3.3 YPC.

The entire offensive line returns as well, which normally is a great thing. But considering the offensive line was horrible last year, I'll believe it when I see it.

Defense is going to be interesting. Ithaca loses two really, really good corners, and a safety. They return Carter, Cimino, and Matuzak at LB, and maybe Clarke will play after missing most of last season, but I don't know what they have on DL either.

I think I predicted 4-6 for Ithaca this season, and unless the OL takes a giant step forward, even that might be optimistic, Scavo or no Scavo

Great pre-season outlook on Ithaca..... Very interesting. E8 should be very fun to watch when the dust settles to see who is on top at season's end.

[fisherfanatic99]

Maybe Im a Fisher homer and I make no bones about it.....but Buff State ahead of Fisher?
Of all teams I thought that Fisher would rebound best after graduation..
I have high hopes for this years team....Hell, I would have begged, begged for an elite 8 bid.....
This team could do the same! imho

I am with you fisheralum.  I have high high hopes for the fisher squad this year.  I just looked at their schedule and said I don't think anybody could beat them but who could maybe surprise them (It's hard to predict 10-0, and almost impossible to do in the E8).  That's why I said Buff St could be a loss.  I do think they beat Salisbury, Alfred, Utica, Hartwick, Frostburg, and Ithaca.  Maybe their first week game might be the toughest?

I feel like if you were an Ithaca fan, we'd be calling you "arrogant" .

Fisher's going to be good, but Thomas More is going to be good too, and I wouldn't sleep on Washington & Jefferson either. Prior to last season, all they did was win 9 to 11 games *every* season. They're bringing back a decent amount of offensive talent, and that game's on the road. Salisbury's not too shabby either, and they beat SJF pretty handily last year. I think it's highly unlikely they win all three of those games.

I think Fisher finishes 2nd in the E8 behind Salisbury, and loses one of those two OOC games. 8-2, and high on the list for a Pool C

I disagree with this one.  People are saying Salisbury is coming back loaded, so is Fisher.  And all the coaching complaining was about the offensive coordinator who is now gone.  As I said before it is going to be interested to see how the Old Kramer uses the New Kramer and the people around him.  I agree that winning the OOC games will be tough though.  I do think SJF will have an upper hand on Salisbury because Fisher has a bye week before that game, so that is 2 weeks to prepare for SU's triple option attack.  I am going Fisher winning the E-8 but will not go 10-0.  I'm sticking with my guns and saying Buff St. may be the team to knock them off, but I wouldn't be surprised if either team in week 1 or 2 gets them. As a Fisher fan I'm excited with predicting a 9-1 or 8-2 season and heading back to the dance.

[dlippiel]

Dlip always hopes that Ithaca will have a solid year. He loves the fact that The U and the Bombers have gotton this OOC rivalry back on track. Dlip thinks if Scavo can hold onto the starting job and is given his first two years to develop, and IC gets him some wr's and some type of running game, IC may really get something going in a few. As far as an LL guy looking in, dlips key E8 match-up will be the SJF/Salisbury game. Even an SJF loss here wouldn't take away their place in the East's top 5, but a win, over what looks to be a very good Gulls team, would speak volumes about the Cardinals in 2012.

[Bombers798891]

Maybe Im a Fisher homer and I make no bones about it.....but Buff State ahead of Fisher?
Of all teams I thought that Fisher would rebound best after graduation..
I have high hopes for this years team....Hell, I would have begged, begged for an elite 8 bid.....
This team could do the same! imho

I am with you fisheralum.  I have high high hopes for the fisher squad this year.  I just looked at their schedule and said I don't think anybody could beat them but who could maybe surprise them (It's hard to predict 10-0, and almost impossible to do in the E8).  That's why I said Buff St could be a loss.  I do think they beat Salisbury, Alfred, Utica, Hartwick, Frostburg, and Ithaca.  Maybe their first week game might be the toughest?

I feel like if you were an Ithaca fan, we'd be calling you "arrogant" .

Fisher's going to be good, but Thomas More is going to be good too, and I wouldn't sleep on Washington & Jefferson either. Prior to last season, all they did was win 9 to 11 games *every* season. They're bringing back a decent amount of offensive talent, and that game's on the road. Salisbury's not too shabby either, and they beat SJF pretty handily last year. I think it's highly unlikely they win all three of those games.

I think Fisher finishes 2nd in the E8 behind Salisbury, and loses one of those two OOC games. 8-2, and high on the list for a Pool C

I disagree with this one.  People are saying Salisbury is coming back loaded, so is Fisher.  And all the coaching complaining was about the offensive coordinator who is now gone.  As I said before it is going to be interested to see how the Old Kramer uses the New Kramer and the people around him.  I agree that winning the OOC games will be tough though.  I do think SJF will have an upper hand on Salisbury because Fisher has a bye week before that game, so that is 2 weeks to prepare for SU's triple option attack.  I am going Fisher winning the E-8 but will not go 10-0.  I'm sticking with my guns and saying Buff St. may be the team to knock them off, but I wouldn't be surprised if either team in week 1 or 2 gets them. As a Fisher fan I'm excited with predicting a 9-1 or 8-2 season and heading back to the dance.

I think Fisher will be good, but Salisbury's only two losses last season were on the road to the National Champion and semifinalist. And it's not like they didn't put a hurting on the Cardinals last year.

The whole two weeks to prepare for the triple option thing makes no sense to me. Hasn't Fisher played Springfield the last eight seasons? It's not like these guys will be clueless. Yeah, the freshman may need to adjust, but it's not like E8 teams have never seen a triple option before. Salisbury beat the E8 soundly last year because they were just better—much like I anticipate they will be this year too

[PBR...]

Maybe Im a Fisher homer and I make no bones about it.....but Buff State ahead of Fisher?
Of all teams I thought that Fisher would rebound best after graduation..
I have high hopes for this years team....Hell, I would have begged, begged for an elite 8 bid.....
This team could do the same! imho

I am with you fisheralum.  I have high high hopes for the fisher squad this year.  I just looked at their schedule and said I don't think anybody could beat them but who could maybe surprise them (It's hard to predict 10-0, and almost impossible to do in the E8).  That's why I said Buff St could be a loss.  I do think they beat Salisbury, Alfred, Utica, Hartwick, Frostburg, and Ithaca.  Maybe their first week game might be the toughest?

I feel like if you were an Ithaca fan, we'd be calling you "arrogant" .

Fisher's going to be good, but Thomas More is going to be good too, and I wouldn't sleep on Washington & Jefferson either. Prior to last season, all they did was win 9 to 11 games *every* season. They're bringing back a decent amount of offensive talent, and that game's on the road. Salisbury's not too shabby either, and they beat SJF pretty handily last year. I think it's highly unlikely they win all three of those games.

I think Fisher finishes 2nd in the E8 behind Salisbury, and loses one of those two OOC games. 8-2, and high on the list for a Pool C

I disagree with this one.  People are saying Salisbury is coming back loaded, so is Fisher.  And all the coaching complaining was about the offensive coordinator who is now gone.  As I said before it is going to be interested to see how the Old Kramer uses the New Kramer and the people around him.  I agree that winning the OOC games will be tough though.  I do think SJF will have an upper hand on Salisbury because Fisher has a bye week before that game, so that is 2 weeks to prepare for SU's triple option attack.  I am going Fisher winning the E-8 but will not go 10-0.  I'm sticking with my guns and saying Buff St. may be the team to knock them off, but I wouldn't be surprised if either team in week 1 or 2 gets them. As a Fisher fan I'm excited with predicting a 9-1 or 8-2 season and heading back to the dance.

I think Fisher will be good, but Salisbury's only two losses last season were on the road to the National Champion and semifinalist. And it's not like they didn't put a hurting on the Cardinals last year.

The whole two weeks to prepare for the triple option thing makes no sense to me. Hasn't Fisher played Springfield the last eight seasons? It's not like these guys will be clueless. Yeah, the freshman may need to adjust, but it's not like E8 teams have never seen a triple option before. Salisbury beat the E8 soundly last year because they were just better—much like I anticipate they will be this year too

Yup...everyone needs to keep their assignments and put the qb on his back on every play whether he has the ball or not and same with the pitchman but therein lies the rub

[dlippiel]

True PBR and when teams get "tired"" and worn down a bit and stop following through on their tackles and assignments that is when the option breaks out. The qb begins to see things develop and then exploits the D for large gains. Chris Sharpe used to do this to a T. The second teams let him get comfortable and see things, goodbye. Over pursuit can cause the option to run wild as well. Dlip has seen many a Union defenses come out bug eyed and pumped up against the option only to blow assgnments. You have got to be disciplined and defend with constant vigilance to contain that trip opt stuff.

[PBR...]

Could the ncaa be a bigger waste of air...never cease to amaze me with how incompetent they run things...sorry to post a psu update but this article just irk's pbr even more so....what a waste

http://chronicle.com/article/Freeh-Group-Member-Criticizes/133213/

[Bombers798891]

This may be true, but how often do all the East teams make it back to the playoffs?  A top 5 that mirrors last year's final is lazy and risk-averse.  Surprises will happen, so why not make some picks that go against the grain? 

Risk for the sake of risk strikes me as no less foolish than safety for the sake of safety.

I mean, Wesley's won at least 11 games six of the last seven years. Del Valley's lost one conference game in three years, on a time-expiring TD pass/2 pt. conversion. The toughest conference game Salisbury got last season was freakin' Ithaca, which was a dreadful squad. They were hardly challenged in conference. Is having them as say, your top three, lazy or smart?

I will say this. Cortland State was two plays away from being 10-0 last season. They do lose some guys (Pitcher notably), but still, they've become very consistent in the NJAC. I think they're being slept on a bit.

Also, could Ithaca stop being horrible so I can stop saying nice things about Cortland?

[PBR...]

This may be true, but how often do all the East teams make it back to the playoffs?  A top 5 that mirrors last year's final is lazy and risk-averse.  Surprises will happen, so why not make some picks that go against the grain? 

Risk for the sake of risk strikes me as no less foolish than safety for the sake of safety.

I mean, Wesley's won at least 11 games six of the last seven years. Del Valley's lost one conference game in three years, on a time-expiring TD pass/2 pt. conversion. The toughest conference game Salisbury got last season was freakin' Ithaca, which was a dreadful squad. They were hardly challenged in conference. Is having them as say, your top three, lazy or smart?

I will say this. Cortland State was two plays away from being 10-0 last season. They do lose some guys (Pitcher notably), but still, they've become very consistent in the NJAC. I think they're being slept on a bit.

Also, could Ithaca stop being horrible so I can stop saying nice things about Cortland?

LOL...always love a cortland zing ...even in the preseason...+1

Your correct in your analysis as well IMHO...DVC has what 19 starters coming back if memory serves me correctly. Wesley is Wesley and will field a perennial powerhouse. Also Widener should not be discounted they will be strong as well this year. The east is going to be very strong this year with some very good teams. I am actually looking forward to this season for all the teams...

[fisherfanatic99]

Maybe Im a Fisher homer and I make no bones about it.....but Buff State ahead of Fisher?
Of all teams I thought that Fisher would rebound best after graduation..
I have high hopes for this years team....Hell, I would have begged, begged for an elite 8 bid.....
This team could do the same! imho

I am with you fisheralum.  I have high high hopes for the fisher squad this year.  I just looked at their schedule and said I don't think anybody could beat them but who could maybe surprise them (It's hard to predict 10-0, and almost impossible to do in the E8).  That's why I said Buff St could be a loss.  I do think they beat Salisbury, Alfred, Utica, Hartwick, Frostburg, and Ithaca.  Maybe their first week game might be the toughest?

I feel like if you were an Ithaca fan, we'd be calling you "arrogant" .

Fisher's going to be good, but Thomas More is going to be good too, and I wouldn't sleep on Washington & Jefferson either. Prior to last season, all they did was win 9 to 11 games *every* season. They're bringing back a decent amount of offensive talent, and that game's on the road. Salisbury's not too shabby either, and they beat SJF pretty handily last year. I think it's highly unlikely they win all three of those games.

I think Fisher finishes 2nd in the E8 behind Salisbury, and loses one of those two OOC games. 8-2, and high on the list for a Pool C

I disagree with this one.  People are saying Salisbury is coming back loaded, so is Fisher.  And all the coaching complaining was about the offensive coordinator who is now gone.  As I said before it is going to be interested to see how the Old Kramer uses the New Kramer and the people around him.  I agree that winning the OOC games will be tough though.  I do think SJF will have an upper hand on Salisbury because Fisher has a bye week before that game, so that is 2 weeks to prepare for SU's triple option attack.  I am going Fisher winning the E-8 but will not go 10-0.  I'm sticking with my guns and saying Buff St. may be the team to knock them off, but I wouldn't be surprised if either team in week 1 or 2 gets them. As a Fisher fan I'm excited with predicting a 9-1 or 8-2 season and heading back to the dance.

I think Fisher will be good, but Salisbury's only two losses last season were on the road to the National Champion and semifinalist. And it's not like they didn't put a hurting on the Cardinals last year.

The whole two weeks to prepare for the triple option thing makes no sense to me. Hasn't Fisher played Springfield the last eight seasons? It's not like these guys will be clueless. Yeah, the freshman may need to adjust, but it's not like E8 teams have never seen a triple option before. Salisbury beat the E8 soundly last year because they were just better—much like I anticipate they will be this year too

Fisher has played Springfield for many years along with their triple option, but Salisbury brings a different dimension.  Unlike Springfield, SU does not cut as much in their offense because their offensive line is 100 times bigger, stronger, and BETTER than what Springfield brings to the table.  To defend Salisbury you must play multiple reads rather than just the QB because the uncertainty of the cut block or stalk block is in play.  As a defensive mindset, you must play much more sound because one little screw up is a big play for Gulls, which was not always the case for Springfield because the SJF teams were better, stronger, and faster than them.  Plus you have to remember, playing defense against the triple option goes against all laws of a defense because no team teaches those principles in their base defense, therefore, every year teams like SJF must use that whole week to get use to that style of offense.  I don't care what you think, but when you can get more time to practice for something that is different, you can react and perform better against it.
Also, unless you were at the game last year between these two teams you wouldn't know how it went.  Fisher stood toe to toe with the Gulls (were close in total yards (437 to 404), Fisher won the time of possession)  just SJF could not score in the red zone.  They were 1 for 5 while Salisbury went 4 for 4.  This game was closer than the people on here that just looked at the 41-21 score at the end of the game.  Salisbury was the better team but in no ways did they dominate the game.

[AUKaz00]

This may be true, but how often do all the East teams make it back to the playoffs?  A top 5 that mirrors last year's final is lazy and risk-averse.  Surprises will happen, so why not make some picks that go against the grain? 

Risk for the sake of risk strikes me as no less foolish than safety for the sake of safety.

I mean, Wesley's won at least 11 games six of the last seven years. Del Valley's lost one conference game in three years, on a time-expiring TD pass/2 pt. conversion. The toughest conference game Salisbury got last season was freakin' Ithaca, which was a dreadful squad. They were hardly challenged in conference. Is having them as say, your top three, lazy or smart?

I will say this. Cortland State was two plays away from being 10-0 last season. They do lose some guys (Pitcher notably), but still, they've become very consistent in the NJAC. I think they're being slept on a bit.

Also, could Ithaca stop being horrible so I can stop saying nice things about Cortland?

Well, I was trolling a little on a lazy, July morning, but I did qualify my rankings by stating that I think there are 3 teams above the hoping-to-make-the-tourney crowd in my first post:

I think the top 3 are a class above the next 10 or 15 schools that will sort out due to fortune. 

[Bombers798891]

Also, unless you were at the game last year between these two teams you wouldn't know how it went.  Fisher stood toe to toe with the Gulls (were close in total yards (437 to 404), Fisher won the time of possession)  just SJF could not score in the red zone.  They were 1 for 5 while Salisbury went 4 for 4.  This game was closer than the people on here that just looked at the 41-21 score at the end of the game.  Salisbury was the better team but in no ways did they dominate the game.

Meh, red zone excuses are lazy, IMHO. Stopping and converting in the red zone frequently is part of being a better team. If the final score was, say, 42-39, and Fisher's last drive was in the red zone before ending in a pick okay, I would agree with you. If we're talking 1 of 5 vs. 4 of 4, that demonstrates a skill.

2011 Season Stats

Fisher Red Zone TD %: 49
Salisbury Red Zone TD %: 79

Now, Fisher kicked a lot of FG's in the red zone, so the overall numbers are closer. But since Fisher wasn't going for FG's, the bottom line is, that red zone performance wasn't some fluke occurrence. Salisbury was better in the red zone than Fisher all season long, and it manifested itself in that game.

Look, Ithaca has stunk in the red zone for two solid years. They're not just unlucky. They're not as good in the red zone as their opponents. Heck, in 2010, when we played you guys, look what we had:

First and goal at the three: Interception
First and goal at the two: Turnover on downs
First and goal at the two: Turnover on downs

Forget red zone, this was goal line situation. So was Fisher just lucky that Ithaca couldn't convert on three chances that any moderately competent offense turns into 21 points? I don't remember any Fisher guys saying Ithaca stood toe to toe with Fisher and just couldn't score in the red zone (But if someone did, please, correct me.) I don't remember that game being called "closer than 34-10" because Ithaca left 25 potential points on the field in the red zone while you guys picked up 21 of 21.