FB: Empire 8

[dlippiel]

Fellas what was Secky's deal last season? Dlip thinks very highly of him but it SEEMED to dlip, someone who does not follow Alfred a ton, that he just didn't have the senior year all expected. Were there alot of other issues that caused Alfred to struggle? Just curious.

[dlippiel]

Note that dlip is going on perception here, not numbers. His lazy ass has yet to look at them.

[sjfcards]

Zemaitis?
Can someone clear this one up...
Thought his career was over.....

From what I heard he is back to playing football... he was cleared by doctors. That's what my son told me

Holy crap, you just made my Friday! If that does come to be, that would be a huge deal for Fisher. He was really good for that one year, and having 2 quality backs and Kramer would be huge. I would still want to see some attempt at a passing game, but who knows if those three are behind the line.

[Bombers798891]

Note that dlip is going on perception here, not numbers. His lazy ass has yet to look at them.

Dlip, here were Secky's averages:

08-10: 60% completion, 229 yards per game, 7.8 yards per attempt, 27 TD's, 12.7 pass attempts/TD, 2:1 TD:INT ratio

2011:  52% completion, 149 yards per game, 6.3 yards per attempt, 7 TD's, 24.3 pass attempts/TD 1:1 TD/INT ratio

Now, he only played in seven games last season, but still. That's a significant drop pretty much across the board. That seems like it almost has to be injury-related. He was too good for too long just to suddenly turn into a mediocre QB.

Secky had a really strange career. He was so good right away and he just stayed that way for three years. I kept thinking he was going to put up a Tim Bailey '10 where he threw for like 300 yards a game, or a Josh Felliceti '05 where he completed 70% of his passes. Never happened, and then last year went down, and I just thought "Huh."

[Bombers798891]

Since Ithaca sucks, I thought I'd try and remember some happier times, and stir a little debate. So let's have some fun, Fisher fans, before I get even more cynical about the year:

Tim Bailey vs. Josh Felicetti. Discuss.

[Upstate]

Since Ithaca sucks, I thought I'd try and remember some happier times, and stir a little debate. So let's have some fun, Fisher fans, before I get even more cynical about the year:

Tim Bailey vs. Josh Felicetti. Discuss.

Not sure which way I want to go with this. We can go down the road of better passer vs better QB, which system are they running (Fisher's spread vs Ithaca's pro style) or just off of team results so I'll just go down all of them as I sit here watching Toy Story 3 with my 4 kids at 9pm on a Friday night.

I think Bailey was the better pure passer and Felicetti was just a more complete QB.  Bailey made throws that I've rarely seen completed at this level while Felicetti was super efficient, smart and more often than not just plain old "clutch" when it matter the most.

I think if you put Bailey in a pro system it wouldn't allow him to wing the ball around all over the place and if you put Felicetti in the spread/zone read that he wouldn't be able to make some of the throws and plays that Bailey could. 

But basically it boils down to the fact we're going to end up comparing 2 NCAA trips and an ECAC game for Felicetti vs 4 ECAC games for Bailey

So I think you have to give the edge to Felicetti for being the better all around QB and clutch when it mattered the most.

[PBR...]

Since Ithaca sucks, I thought I'd try and remember some happier times, and stir a little debate. So let's have some fun, Fisher fans, before I get even more cynical about the year:

Tim Bailey vs. Josh Felicetti. Discuss.

since Felicetti was the qb at pbr's high school u know where this vote lies...

[AUPepBand]

Pep,

Im assuming you know best, whats the word on the signal caller for the Saxons this year? All of the guys I played with have now moved on (Kilcarr, Secky, Quinlivan). Any good prospects or solid backups from last year?

Pep anticipates a competitive camp with junior transfer Zach Sopak (Jamestown area's Southwestern H.S./Washington & Jefferson) and sophomore Markell Ingram (6-0, 185, Buffalo/McKinley) likely the frontrunners. Sopak led his high school team to two consecutive state titles (2008 and 2009) and was named Player of the Year in Class C. He was used sparingly at W&J and, having been highly recruited by Murray in high school, actually started taking classes at AU in the spring. Ingram played extensively with the JV squad last year and wants to step in to the starting role.

Depending upon how they spent their summer of preparation, there may be a freshman who steps in to make it a three-way race from among the 90 recruits joining the program as released by AU: http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=7557

While Pep isn't thrilled by the 2012 schedule (six games away, only three at home), it should be an interesting season.

[sjfcards]

Since Ithaca sucks, I thought I'd try and remember some happier times, and stir a little debate. So let's have some fun, Fisher fans, before I get even more cynical about the year:

Tim Bailey vs. Josh Felicetti. Discuss.

Oh boy, probably more than I can handle after a few drinks tonight. I have to say both were great out of the shoot. My general feeling is Baily had more talent, but Felicetti obviously got the job done from a wins perspective. However, I do think the E8 wasn't as strong when Felicetti was playing, so I will give the nod to Bailey..

A homer pick I know, but it just feels right to me...

[Bombers798891]

Since Ithaca sucks, I thought I'd try and remember some happier times, and stir a little debate. So let's have some fun, Fisher fans, before I get even more cynical about the year:

Tim Bailey vs. Josh Felicetti. Discuss.

Oh boy, probably more than I can handle after a few drinks tonight. I have to say both were great out of the shoot. My general feeling is Baily had more talent, but Felicetti obviously got the job done from a wins perspective. However, I do think the E8 wasn't as strong when Felicetti was playing, so I will give the nod to Bailey..

A homer pick I know, but it just feels right to me...

Not a homer pick at all. I think the two players are close to equal. Bailey had a better arm, I think, but Josh became more accurate (in part due to the system). I don't hold Bailey responsible for the lack of NCAA berths. True story: From 2008-2010, every game Fisher lost, they allowed at least 31 points. Ithaca lost some games (Brockport 2004, Cortland 2003,) where it was the offense's fault. And you raise a good point about the strength of the E8. Bailey was also more of a threat with his legs.

It's tricky because Ithaca's offense was so different. In Bailey's best season, for example, Schmidt had 87 catches and 1075 yards. In Felicetti's, the leading receivers had 35 catches (Kelly Gordon) and 547 yards (Justin Eposito). I think Ithaca had more weapons on offense than Fisher did (Dargush at TE, and even Free at FB for example), but Fisher's best guys were better than IC's. I don't know what's more of an advantage for a QB though.

Since were pretty much dead even, I'm going to give the edge to Felicetti because of something random: If he were to get hurt, Ithaca would have been worse at more than just QB. This is totally odd to me too, but Josh emerging allowed Ryan Steenberg to move to LB for 2003 and 2004, where he provided solid depth. And in 2005, another one time Felicetti backup, Jeff O'Hara, caught 31-476-4 as a WR. Josh going down would have hurt them not only at QB, but the shuffling of bodies would have made them thinner elsewhere. (If this occurred at Fisher too, let me know, and disregard the rest)

Any other good comparisons from the glory days? Schmidt/Francis vs. Esposito/Welch? Robinson vs. Donovan? (Just kidding...sigh. Stupid nagging injuries)

[sjfcards]

Since were pretty much dead even, I'm going to give the edge to Felicetti because of something random: If he were to get hurt, Ithaca would have been worse at more than just QB. This is totally odd to me too, but Josh emerging allowed Ryan Steenberg to move to LB for 2003 and 2004, where he provided solid depth. And in 2005, another one time Felicetti backup, Jeff O'Hara, caught 31-476-4 as a WR. Josh going down would have hurt them not only at QB, but the shuffling of bodies would have made them thinner elsewhere. (If this occurred at Fisher too, let me know, and disregard the rest)

Not sure Fisher would have been hurt by the shuffling of bodies, but I don't think Francis as a deep threat is as scary for opposing defenses without Baily's arm. Which forces D backs to play a step farther back which opens up passes out of the backfield...and on and on.

You are right that we are basically grasping at straws for some slight edge because both players were so good. If we are talking about making the players around you better, what happens if we add Boltus to the mix?

Maybe that's the question we should kick around... Who has been the best player over the last 10 years in the E8?  (only ten years because I do not recognize E8 football before 2003  ) I could go on and on with this type of stuff.

[fisheralum91]

I would really like an update on the whole Zemaitis thing.
This is a real shocker to me.
If he is back (and healthy) that is a huge gain for Fisher!

[Bombers798891]

Since were pretty much dead even, I'm going to give the edge to Felicetti because of something random: If he were to get hurt, Ithaca would have been worse at more than just QB. This is totally odd to me too, but Josh emerging allowed Ryan Steenberg to move to LB for 2003 and 2004, where he provided solid depth. And in 2005, another one time Felicetti backup, Jeff O'Hara, caught 31-476-4 as a WR. Josh going down would have hurt them not only at QB, but the shuffling of bodies would have made them thinner elsewhere. (If this occurred at Fisher too, let me know, and disregard the rest)

Not sure Fisher would have been hurt by the shuffling of bodies, but I don't think Francis as a deep threat is as scary for opposing defenses without Baily's arm. Which forces D backs to play a step farther back which opens up passes out of the backfield...and on and on.

You are right that we are basically grasping at straws for some slight edge because both players were so good. If we are talking about making the players around you better, what happens if we add Boltus to the mix?

Maybe that's the question we should kick around... Who has been the best player over the last 10 years in the E8?  (only ten years because I do not recognize E8 football before 2003  )

Really, really tough call on best of the last 10 years. Assuming everyone is fully healthy, I think I'd pick Robinson. When you can hand the ball to a RB 386 times in a season, and he catches passes out of the backfield...I mean, how could you stop him?

Boltus was good, but if Felicetti or Bailey ever had 450 attempts, I think they'd do just as well. I think you could get his production from those two if you gave them the same weapons. On the other hand, Boltus' accuracy might not have been enough in Ithaca's system, which isn't really based on the deep ball, where he and Bailey really excelled.

I do wish Jamie Donovan hadn't spent his entire career sort of injured. The first eight games after he took over at starter spanning 2004-2005, he averaged 150 yards a game, 6.3 yards a carry and topped 200 yards in a game twice. But he started getting banged up even though he rarely missed time, and was never really that back again.

But of course, had Robinson not missed time in 2005 and been the backup in 2003, he might have run for 7,000 yards. So what can you do?

[sjfcards]

I agree with that, but my personal preference for the best player has always been Stepnik. With him the Fisher D was way better than without. He was a shutdown corner, could cover, tackle, return picks...he was great. Made a huge impact on that side of the ball. Loved Robby too, and you can't go wrong with either.

[fisheralum91]

Stepnik was absolutley amazing to watch.
Great family too.
Was tough to see him go down with the high ankle sprain his senior year.
Great memories!!