FB: Empire 8

[fisherfanatic99]

Hello - new to the boards!  Former Fisher football player - no kids on the team.  I was at the game today and and for the majority of the game the two teams were pretty evenly matched.  In my opinion, Fisher's main problem is coaching!  Offensive play calling is horrible!  They have 150 kids on the sideline - but there is no emotion!  The team is undisciplined - at least 4 offsides and 3 personal foul calls today.  And it seems like these are the same problems they have game after game.  Good coaching would put an end to all of these problems.

I think the offense looked much better with Fenti in the game.  If he is the starter on day 1, I think Fisher is still undefeated!  As long as he remains the starting qb from here on out, Fisher is going to be a very difficult team to beat!

I didn't mean to be a first time contributor to the board and speak negatively about Fisher, however I think they will always be a good team, but not a great team, until they make some coaching changes!

I've stayed off this because my son told me it was a bad idea , but  gonna say my peace and be done. First, Kramer reinjures his ankle. He has no broken bones but has two severe sprains.  My son said he tweeted "you know how I am.. I'll to everything i can be on that field next week." This kids a warrior. I disagree with you about everything you just said. The coaching staff at fisher is one of the best in all of division 3 football.  Fisher is undisciplined but play with extreme heart and attitude (which happened to cost them the game yesterday ) also the offensive attitude changed when Kramer went down. It is tough for any coach to call plays without your best playmaker and starting qb in the game. To me , Fenti proved all my doubts right yesterday . He has no self control ,no leadership and does not have what it takes to will a team to a win. He went from hero to zero pretty quickly yesterday. He showed glimpses of good but once he made one mistake , all the mistakes came flying. Coach vos knows what he is doing and now seeing pretty much a whole game without Kramer I understand why he has kept the kid at qb. The kid holds everyone together and stays poised on the sidelines allowing everyone else to be comfortable and confident. Physically is he a better thrower than Fenti no. But he is a way better leader and playmaker. My nod 100% goes with that kinda guy every time . This will be my last post . Good luck to all the rest of the year . Go cardinals !

[Bombers798891]

I'm always amazed when any Fisher fan blasts the coaching staff. It's been awhile since it happened with regularity, because the few really negative Fisher guys no longer post here, thankfully. But seriously, the Cardinals are the premier team in the E8 over the last 6-7 years. Yes, Alfred and IC and now Salisbury have been good at various times, but Fisher's the team making the inroads in the NCAA with regularity. And that's not all due to the great players they've had.

[dlippiel]

I'm always amazed when any Fisher fan blasts the coaching staff. It's been awhile since it happened with regularity, because the few really negative Fisher guys no longer post here, thankfully. But seriously, the Cardinals are the premier team in the E8 over the last 6-7 years. Yes, Alfred and IC and now Salisbury have been good at various times, but Fisher's the team making the inroads in the NCAA with regularity. And that's not all due to the great players they've had.

True dat! Although dlip would still always put the Gulls on top since they have not lost a league game yet in the conference. Dlip always has a ton of respect for the entire SJF program, including the coaching staff.

[mattvsmith]

FisherFanatic99 (from hereon FF99) you shouldn't make that your last post. Come here and say what you want and don't worry about it, even if people disagree.
The only time you need to reel yourself in is if you try to talk about your kid as if he is God's gift to football, while at the same time trying to make it seem like he's not your kid to give a false sense of objectivity. But you haven't done that, so what are you worried about?
Oh, also never say anything that could come back and haunt your kid in the team room. I haven't seen you do that, either.

[fisherfanatic99]

FisherFanatic99 (from hereon FF99) you shouldn't make that your last post. Come here and say what you want and don't worry about it, even if people disagree.
The only time you need to reel yourself in is if you try to talk about your kid as if he is God's gift to football, while at the same time trying to make it seem like he's not your kid to give a false sense of objectivity. But you haven't done that, so what are you worried about?
Oh, also never say anything that could come back and haunt your kid in the team room. I haven't seen you do that, either.

I know I have done none of that on here... I'll be back in a year or two when a lot of my sons friends /teammates no longer play. Even though I have really only talked about the qb issue (both guys who aren't close friends of my son ) I still agree with my son its not my place to point out kids strengths and weaknesses. I thank you for the respectful words but I'm pulling a Michael Jordan and retiring before my prime but most likely will be back in the game . On that note ,my opinion is support Kramer he's the fisher faithfuls best chance to win

[SUADC]

Here's my recap of the Salisbury vs. St. John Fisher game played yesterday. First, each team played extremely well. However, as I said in one of my recent post, St. John Fisher had to start strong and finish strong, I don't think they did that yesterday, as most of you already know. Now, in my honest opinion, St. John Fisher was the best offense (first 3 quarters and a half) Salisbury has played thus far and that includes Wesley. Even though Salisbury has seen the type of offense St. John Fisher was running on many occasions, St. John Fisher execution was amazing for most of the game. I don't know, but I think the second string quarterback that came in after Kramer got hurt, opened the offense up a little, which some say may have hurt St. John Fisher, but it effected Salisbury defense as well. Especially when he got into the game and didn't really miss a step. Now, as many of you mentioned, his lack of leadership may have came into play late in the game, I honestly don't know, because I have not met the kid and have not watch him on a consistent basis. I do think the St. John Fisher play calling in the fourth quarter change, appeared to go away from what was working, especially after Salisbury took the lead midway in the fourth quarter.

As for Salisbury, I think that penalties hurt us both offensively and defensively at crucial moments of the game, on big third and fourth downs. I think that those long drives that St. John Fisher had, maybe would not have happen, but you can't make mistakes like that against a good team like St. John Fisher. Nevertheless, I think the defense was amazing, especially when it matter most (fourth quarter). Also, I would like to give credit to Salisbury Punter, he was amazing in putting St. John Fisher deep into their territory, that was a big difference. Griffin and Flanigan was amazing, they made big plays all game, especially that fourth and long, even though I don't think we scored that drive. Salisbury offense looked scetchy at times, but they stood strong to the formula and did what it takes to win a close game, so kudos to the coaching staff for keeping the team focus.

One more thing, I did not know it was homecoming for St. John Fisher, that maybe played a factor, I mentioned that in one of my earlier post, that the crowd might be a factor, but as I aforementioned, Salisbury coaching staff prepares the team well to go into hostile environments.

Good Luck to both teams going forward, it appears that the E8 is set to be challenging for both teams, but I still believe that both Salisbury and St. John Fisher are capable of running the tables and that this recent game has prepared each team for playoffs.

[boobyhasgameyo]

For 3 quarters Fenti was playing at a level that made our offense multi-dimensional for the first time in a very long time.  Kramer makes our offense very predictable and he just has not been accurate this year.  You can say all you want about leadership FF99 but I do not think that excuses Kramer's flaws as a QB.  He should be a utility player on offense.  Running back, wildcat type QB, slot receiver, whatever.  But an every down QB he is not.  Before he got hurt I remember one play specifically he had one player wide open about 25 yards down the field which could have resulted in a huge play...Kramer over threw him by 10 yards easily.  That's what he does. 

Fenti for sure fell apart at the end of the game, but I wish we could have spent time developing him.  That was his first game of real meaningful playing time and it was against one of the best teams in the country.  He moved the ball and even ran well on more than a few occasions. 

[fisherfanatic99]

For 3 quarters Fenti was playing at a level that made our offense multi-dimensional for the first time in a very long time.  Kramer makes our offense very predictable and he just has not been accurate this year.  You can say all you want about leadership FF99 but I do not think that excuses Kramer's flaws as a QB.  He should be a utility player on offense.  Running back, wildcat type QB, slot receiver, whatever.  But an every down QB he is not.  Before he got hurt I remember one play specifically he had one player wide open about 25 yards down the field which could have resulted in a huge play...Kramer over threw him by 10 yards easily.  That's what he does. 

Fenti for sure fell apart at the end of the game, but I wish we could have spent time developing him.  That was his first game of real meaningful playing time and it was against one of the best teams in the country.  He moved the ball and even ran well on more than a few occasions.

The play you are thinking of was a third down play with a bad snap that Kramer chased down off the turf ran around keeping the play alive and trying to make something out of nothing ? Is it a positive yes because its not a sack and loss yardage. Make that throw would be big time. I admit Fenti looked good but did not do anything Kramer couldn't do. Where they separated was down the stretch were Kramer has found ways time after time to win games ,Fenti plain out s**t the bed. Other thing is Fenti has 2 fumbles and 2 ints in a little over a quarter. When things went wrong he choked its that simple. I can't remember any time I can say that about Kramer . I just don't think you know the game fisher is trying to play. They want to possess the ball (run run run) to keep their top of the line defense off the field. They just need a qb who protects the ball and runs the offense because like last year points will come from that kind of offense. Its d3 football. You get your best players the ball ,Fisher does that by letting him touch the ball every play.

[boobyhasgameyo]

For 3 quarters Fenti was playing at a level that made our offense multi-dimensional for the first time in a very long time.  Kramer makes our offense very predictable and he just has not been accurate this year.  You can say all you want about leadership FF99 but I do not think that excuses Kramer's flaws as a QB.  He should be a utility player on offense.  Running back, wildcat type QB, slot receiver, whatever.  But an every down QB he is not.  Before he got hurt I remember one play specifically he had one player wide open about 25 yards down the field which could have resulted in a huge play...Kramer over threw him by 10 yards easily.  That's what he does. 

Fenti for sure fell apart at the end of the game, but I wish we could have spent time developing him.  That was his first game of real meaningful playing time and it was against one of the best teams in the country.  He moved the ball and even ran well on more than a few occasions.

The play you are thinking of was a third down play with a bad snap that Kramer chased down off the turf ran around keeping the play alive and trying to make something out of nothing ? Is it a positive yes because its not a sack and loss yardage. Make that throw would be big time. I admit Fenti looked good but did not do anything Kramer couldn't do. Where they separated was down the stretch were Kramer has found ways time after time to win games ,Fenti plain out s**t the bed. Other thing is Fenti has 2 fumbles and 2 ints in a little over a quarter. When things went wrong he choked its that simple. I can't remember any time I can say that about Kramer . I just don't think you know the game fisher is trying to play. They want to possess the ball (run run run) to keep their top of the line defense off the field. They just need a qb who protects the ball and runs the offense because like last year points will come from that kind of offense. Its d3 football. You get your best players the ball ,Fisher does that by letting him touch the ball every play.

I very much disagree with this statement.  That would fly if Fisher has always been that way but they haven't.  Take the QB right before Kramer - Bailey.  The offense was completely different with him because he could throw.  His first year he had growing pains and the offense struggled as a result but then he flourished into probably our best QB ever.  Fisher has turned into this because of Kramer's strengths and equally as important his limitations.  What you get is a very one dimensional product that will not fly against the top tiered teams in the country.  I've been watching different iterations of Fisher offense for about a decade now and this is the worst of them all.  Did you have the opportunity to watch Fisher before your son played? 

Here is the PPG on offense the past few years:

This year through 4 full games since Kramer was hurt on the 5th:  26 ppg
2011:  29.23 (Kramer)
2010:  43.17 (Bailey)
*2009:  35  (Bailey)
*2008:  29.18 (Bailey's first year as starter that I mentioned)
*2007:  35.53 (Kramer)
*2006:  37.36 (Kramer)
2005:  40.18  (Kramer)
2004:  37.91  (Fitzpatrick)

Those asterisks indicate years that Fisher played Mount Union and if you are aware of them you'll know they don't yield too many points to anybody.  I'd put a star next to last year playing St. Thomas but again I am of the belief if we had a Bailey or older brother Kramer offense leading the attack we would have had a way better showing against them. 

[fisherfanatic99]

For 3 quarters Fenti was playing at a level that made our offense multi-dimensional for the first time in a very long time.  Kramer makes our offense very predictable and he just has not been accurate this year.  You can say all you want about leadership FF99 but I do not think that excuses Kramer's flaws as a QB.  He should be a utility player on offense.  Running back, wildcat type QB, slot receiver, whatever.  But an every down QB he is not.  Before he got hurt I remember one play specifically he had one player wide open about 25 yards down the field which could have resulted in a huge play...Kramer over threw him by 10 yards easily.  That's what he does. 

Fenti for sure fell apart at the end of the game, but I wish we could have spent time developing him.  That was his first game of real meaningful playing time and it was against one of the best teams in the country.  He moved the ball and even ran well on more than a few occasions.

The play you are thinking of was a third down play with a bad snap that Kramer chased down off the turf ran around keeping the play alive and trying to make something out of nothing ? Is it a positive yes because its not a sack and loss yardage. Make that throw would be big time. I admit Fenti looked good but did not do anything Kramer couldn't do. Where they separated was down the stretch were Kramer has found ways time after time to win games ,Fenti plain out s**t the bed. Other thing is Fenti has 2 fumbles and 2 ints in a little over a quarter. When things went wrong he choked its that simple. I can't remember any time I can say that about Kramer . I just don't think you know the game fisher is trying to play. They want to possess the ball (run run run) to keep their top of the line defense off the field. They just need a qb who protects the ball and runs the offense because like last year points will come from that kind of offense. Its d3 football. You get your best players the ball ,Fisher does that by letting him touch the ball every play.

I very much disagree with this statement.  That would fly if Fisher has always been that way but they haven't.  Take the QB right before Kramer - Bailey.  The offense was completely different with him because he could throw.  His first year he had growing pains and the offense struggled as a result but then he flourished into probably our best QB ever.  Fisher has turned into this because of Kramer's strengths and equally as important his limitations.  What you get is a very one dimensional product that will not fly against the top tiered teams in the country.  I've been watching different iterations of Fisher offense for about a decade now and this is the worst of them all.  Did you have the opportunity to watch Fisher before your son played? 

Here is the PPG on offense the past few years:


This year through 4 full games since Kramer was hurt on the 5th:  26 ppg
2011:  29.23
2010:  43.17
*2009:  35
*2008:  29.18 (Bailey's first year as started that I mentioned)
*2007:  35.53
*2006:  37.36
2005:  40.18
2004:  37.91

Those asterisks indicate years that Fisher played Mount Union and if you are aware of them you'll know they don't yield too many points to anybody.  I'd put a star next to last year playing St. Thomas but again I am of the belief if we had a Bailey or older brother Kramer offense leading the attack we would have had a way better showing against them.

Yes I started watching them when mark Robinson went there. I don't think fisher has had a talented defense like the last two years.. they are dominate. I don't count bailey because even though he was a stud he never made it to the playoffs . With older Kramer they pounded the rock with Robinson and reile and Kramer's job was to mange the offense and take care of the ball (much like his brother ) and ever before Kramer was Fitzpatrick (now the oc at Utica) the common things these 3 qbs have in common (fitzy ,Kramer and Kramer) they all led fisher to the playoffs all leading offenses that were heavily depended on the run. Why change something that has proven to win big games and get into the playoffs . My question to you is are you more about stats and big points than winning games ?

[boobyhasgameyo]

Well I'd think that was obvious.  With this more talented defense that we've had the past few years if we had an offense that could generate more points along with it, that would lead to us you know...winning more games.  You are the only Fisher supporter that I know who would say this current offense is just what we need.  It's seriously the worst one.  I don't know why you argue it.  This offense screams 3rd round exit in playoffs as an absolute ceiling. 

[fisherfanatic99]

Well I'd think that was obvious.  With this more talented defense that we've had the past few years if we had an offense that could generate more points along with it, that would lead to us you know...winning more games.  You are the only Fisher supporter that I know who would say this current offense is just what we need.  It's seriously the worst one.  I don't know why you argue it.  This offense screams 3rd round exit in playoffs as an absolute ceiling.

I'm saying I support coach Vosburgh coaching this team and not thinking I know it all.  As I've said before its more than just quarterback talent to find the right qb. For example, just because bailey was the most talented qb in school history doesn't mean he'd be the qb to win you the big game when you need it. I don't get how you bash the kid or the coaches who have gotten a team to the playoffs. Kramer is a winner ,Fenti yesterday showed me he didn't have it in him yet (maybe he will with time but not a good first impression). Kramers first game was ugly but he did lead Fisher to a game winning drive to beat buff st. You have your opinions I have mine , I just think you rather watch something that looks good than just look on the board and see a win. if u do count the game yesterday Fisher is 13-3 as a starter .. I'd take that anyday

[pg04]

Wow, this has been a lot of last posts! 

[dlippiel]

Booby is not bashing...that's a great sentence by the way  Honestly dlip feels the talk regarding fisher's offense is legit and worth discussing. Is it bashing to question and/or make suggestions regarding a team's offense? Hell no. No one on here is saying they know it all, they are just saying that they think Fisher would be a better team if they had a more consistent and well rounded offense to go along with their amazing D. How can anyone argue that? Many Fisher fans have an idea what it takes to get to or close to the top of D3. dlip likes Kramer, he thinks he is a natural athlete and an excellent football player. However maybe he would better serve the team as a multiple offensive weapon? Is it bashing him or the team to support and/or suggest that? Everyone dlip has ever talked to loves the kid and what he brings to the table. No one is saying Kramer is not a great kid an excellent athlete. Yet it is obvious to many that have an idea what they are talking about that the offense needs something to take it to the next level. dlip does not pretend to know much of anything but he does know that the ceiling for SJF is not as high as it could be if the O was better. Could Kramer get them there? Maybe, dlip would love to see it happen. What we do on these boards is not bash but discuss possibilites about the the teams we love and the game we love. dlip does not think Booby or any other SJF fan is bashing here just questioning and wanting the most success for the team they love.

[boobyhasgameyo]

You just got positive karma sniped.