FB: Empire 8

[pg04]

I think the pollsters did have in mind what was done with Wesley. I think that's why they started as highly as they did...I mean, starting off 22nd seemed about right, given last year's record and their effort against Wesley.

[dlippiel]

Absolutely and dlip feels Bart has been ranked fairly all year, especially when you take into account the poor state of the LL (however it is looking a tad better to dlip than a couple weeks ago for some reason). Even though dlip feels the Pumpkinheads would now win the head to head battle he really does not have ANY issue with Fisher being ranked ahead of them in the "BIG BOY" poll. The E8 is much stronger and even though SJF up to this point has only defeated Wick in conference he can't blame anyone for the current ranking. Dlip doesn't know about you homeboys and he is not wishing the season away but he is excited about what the East MAY do in the playoffs this season.

[pumkinattack]

Booby, just so we're clear, I've got nothing against Fisher and if anything am jealous of what they did 5-7 years ago (IMO very different that the past few years including last year).  I used to hate Fishet when I played you in the late 90s and thought you were all dirty, but now generally root for the East vs. everyone else.  I can't speak for other Bart alums/fans, but I use Fisher to point out what I think is a weak analysis of Hobart in the overall picture because I think Hobart is a top team in the east and, perhaps nationally, this year.  Who else should I compare them to when discussing this perceived disparity than perhaps the atrongest program in the east over he past decade.  I don't really know Sals and struggle to think of them as an East team, but rather a partner for the conference with a short term need for schools.  Other than two playoff games in 04&08 I dont know the MAC that well, but suspect they're a little overrated due to DelVals pretty strong run for a few years.

[Bombers798891]

Throwing my two cents in:

Part of the problem with figuring out Fisher—and using them as a basis for comparison to Hobart— is that this season, they've been all over the map. Now, wins are wins, but when we're trying to make sense of how good a team truly is, it's more than just the record, or even the score. And my God, Fisher's got all sorts of stuff going on.

I mean, in Week 1, they dominate the stats (16 more first downs, 270 more yards,) but have to squeak by because they're too busy turning the ball over to finish drives.

In Week 2, it's nearly the exact opposite (16 fewer first downs, 183 fewer yards) but this time it's the other team's turnovers that play a role.

So they've had a game where they clearly were better than their opponent, and they had a game where the opponent, on balance, outplayed them. They did win them both, could have lost them both, and probably should have split. And now we have to add in that the team they dominated is all over the map, losing to Geneva. And, tragically, can we even accurately assess W&J from this point on? The team that Fisher played is so drastically different from now, it's almost impossible to draw any conclusion from the rest of the year. (I say that all with the utmost sadness over what happened)

The Rochester game could have provided some clarity, but Fisher really didn't look that great, but then again it was a rivalry game, so Rochester was fired up, and maybe Rochester's better than they were in year's past.

Then they finally put together 60 good minutes, but of course it's a home game against probably the worst team in the conference (unless Buff State continues to tank).

Then they play a really good game against one of the elite teams in the country, tougher than anything on Hobart's schedule. Probably, considering the competition, the best game they've played all season. But they're playing a really good team, so they lose a heartbreaker.

Seriously, Fisher is all over the map. They still win, but their play is erratic, and their opponents are all over the place too. Some are great, some stink, some may be better than we thought, some may be worse, and one is probably good, but who knows how they deal with this tragedy? Do we evaluate results or process?

Fisher is just so freaking weird. I have zero clue what to think of them. They're good, but who knows *how* good? All I can say for sure is that they'll stomp IC in a few weeks.

[wesleydad]

great conversation guys.  that is why i like this site, you guys talk football, not enough to talk with on the Wesley board, plus they are all Wesley folk, so not much to discuss.  If Hobart returns most of last years team then they are certainly a top team in the nation, not just the east.  i was more than impressed by what they brought to wesley last year.  Fisher is also good and deserves the national recognition.  figure i will ask this question as we are past half way through the season, if Salisbury finished with 1 loss to Wesley, and Hobart and Widener go undefeated, and Rowan only has the 1 loss to a D2 school, who do you think would get the #1 seed and would all that be good enough to keep mount in the north?

[dlippiel]

 dlip sure hopes so. It would have really helped if the Gulls beat Wesley but if the scenerio you present plays out then dlip thinks/hopes Mount may stay out. Then the question is who receives the #1 seed? Most likely Salisbury but honestly, and not that it matters, dlip thinks Hobart would give the Gulls all they could handle, if not actually beat them if the teams squared off today.

[Upstate]

With the way the brackets were set up last year there's no way an "East" team gets a #1 seed unless they're a top 5 team in the country...

Which is totally understandable.  I loved the way the brackets were set up last year.  I want to see more of that instead of this regionalized BS we've been crying about for the past couple of years...

I want more possible Linfield/Wesley type match ups in the 2nd round, more of those inter-regional match ups that early in the NCAAs will do nothing but make the playoffs more intriguing...

The top 4 seeds, if everything comes up roses from here on out for those teams, will likely (and kind of obvious at this point) be UMU, UMHB, Linfield & St. Thomas...

[SUADC]

With the way the brackets were set up last year there's no way an "East" team gets a #1 seed unless they're a top 5 team in the country...

Which is totally understandable.  I loved the way the brackets were set up last year.  I want to see more of that instead of this regionalized BS we've been crying about for the past couple of years...

I want more possible Linfield/Wesley type match ups in the 2nd round, more of those inter-regional match ups that early in the NCAAs will do nothing but make the playoffs more intriguing...

The top 4 seeds, if everything comes up roses from here on out for those teams, will likely (and kind of obvious at this point) be UMU, UMHB, Linfield & St. Thomas...

Upstate,

I would have to disagree with your assertion that the East does not deserve to have a represenative as the #1 seed. I believe looking at last year, the committee did a great job eliminating that bias that the East is weaker than everyone else. They allowed the East to have a represenative regardless if our fan polls, d3 polls, etc...indicated otherwise. When regional rankings come around, Hobart and Widener will be in front of Salisbury and if everything continues as it is and it plays out like last year, both Hobart and Widener will be rank #1 and #2 seeds in the East bracket. Your assertion appears that you are vouching for the old playoff brackets we had two years ago when MUC was thrown into the East due to the perception that the East is inferior to other regions. Personally, I thing the South is #1, East and West are split at #2, and North #4.

[Mr. Ypsi]

With the way the brackets were set up last year there's no way an "East" team gets a #1 seed unless they're a top 5 team in the country...

Which is totally understandable.  I loved the way the brackets were set up last year.  I want to see more of that instead of this regionalized BS we've been crying about for the past couple of years...

I want more possible Linfield/Wesley type match ups in the 2nd round, more of those inter-regional match ups that early in the NCAAs will do nothing but make the playoffs more intriguing...

The top 4 seeds, if everything comes up roses from here on out for those teams, will likely (and kind of obvious at this point) be UMU, UMHB, Linfield & St. Thomas...

Upstate,

I would have to disagree with the fact that that the east does not deserve to have a represenative as the #1 seed coming out of the east. I believe looking at last year, the committee did a great job eliminating that bias that the east is weaker than everyone else. They allowed the east to have a represenative regardless if our fan polls, d3 polls, etc...indicated otherwise. When regional rankings come around, Hobart and Widener will be in front of Salisbury and if it plays out like last year, both Hobart and Widener will be rank #1 and #2 seeds in the East bracket. It appears that you are vouching for the old playoff brackets we had two years and going back, when MUC was thrown into the East due to the perception that the East is inferior to other regions. Personally, I thing the South is #1, East and West are split at #2, and North #4.

I think the point Upstate was making was that with last year's bracketing, there WAS no East bracket.  As d3football.com usage also put it, there was a UMU bracket, a UWW bracket, and I forget who the top seeds were for the other two (Wesley and St. Thomas, perhaps?).  They chose the top four seeds, then built brackets around them.  As long as they retain regional rankings as the mechanism for selection, this may seem incongruous, but I certainly liked the resulting matchups.

[wrdad]

With the way the brackets were set up last year there's no way an "East" team gets a #1 seed unless they're a top 5 team in the country...

Which is totally understandable.  I loved the way the brackets were set up last year.  I want to see more of that instead of this regionalized BS we've been crying about for the past couple of years...

I want more possible Linfield/Wesley type match ups in the 2nd round, more of those inter-regional match ups that early in the NCAAs will do nothing but make the playoffs more intriguing...

The top 4 seeds, if everything comes up roses from here on out for those teams, will likely (and kind of obvious at this point) be UMU, UMHB, Linfield & St. Thomas...

Upstate,

I would have to disagree with your assertion that the East does not deserve to have a represenative as the #1 seed. I believe looking at last year, the committee did a great job eliminating that bias that the East is weaker than everyone else. They allowed the East to have a represenative regardless if our fan polls, d3 polls, etc...indicated otherwise. When regional rankings come around, Hobart and Widener will be in front of Salisbury and if everything continues as it is and it plays out like last year, both Hobart and Widener will be rank #1 and #2 seeds in the East bracket. Your assertion appears that you are vouching for the old playoff brackets we had two years ago when MUC was thrown into the East due to the perception that the East is inferior to other regions. Personally, I thing the South is #1, East and West are split at #2, and North #4.

If the selection committee does like last year, there won't be an "east bracket"

[Upstate]

With the way the brackets were set up last year there's no way an "East" team gets a #1 seed unless they're a top 5 team in the country...

Which is totally understandable.  I loved the way the brackets were set up last year.  I want to see more of that instead of this regionalized BS we've been crying about for the past couple of years...

I want more possible Linfield/Wesley type match ups in the 2nd round, more of those inter-regional match ups that early in the NCAAs will do nothing but make the playoffs more intriguing...

The top 4 seeds, if everything comes up roses from here on out for those teams, will likely (and kind of obvious at this point) be UMU, UMHB, Linfield & St. Thomas...

Upstate,

I would have to disagree with your assertion that the East does not deserve to have a represenative as the #1 seed. I believe looking at last year, the committee did a great job eliminating that bias that the East is weaker than everyone else. They allowed the East to have a represenative regardless if our fan polls, d3 polls, etc...indicated otherwise. When regional rankings come around, Hobart and Widener will be in front of Salisbury and if everything continues as it is and it plays out like last year, both Hobart and Widener will be rank #1 and #2 seeds in the East bracket. Your assertion appears that you are vouching for the old playoff brackets we had two years ago when MUC was thrown into the East due to the perception that the East is inferior to other regions. Personally, I thing the South is #1, East and West are split at #2, and North #4.

Like the others have just said, there are no east/north/south/west brackets any longer.

The only way an East team is getting a top seed is if they are one of the top 4 teams in the country.  Personally, I'm fine with that.  It gives the top 4 teams in the country the seeding they deserve and it creates great match ups in the first couple of rounds.

If SU/Hobart/Widener end up a top 4 team due to attrition then they'll get a #1 seed.  If they other teams keep winning out, they wont.

[fisheralum91]

Looking forward to SatErday,
I think that the AU/Fisher game is an interesting one.
Does Kramer come back after another ankle sprain?
Does Fenti get the nod even tho he cost his team a shot at the E8 outright?
Can AU score on a Fisher D which is by all accounts the best in the league?
Interesting scenerios in any case.
Should be a good one!
5k posts...wahoo!

[pg04]

Looking forward to SatErday,
I think that the AU/Fisher game is an interesting one.
Does Kramer come back after another ankle sprain?
Does Fenti get the nod even tho he cost his team a shot at the E8 outright?
Can AU score on a Fisher D which is by all accounts the best in the league?
Interesting scenerios in any case.
Should be a good one!
5k posts...wahoo!

+K for your 5000th! Once you get to the point of 5000 posts, some newer posters would call you a "board elite"  (This is a joke you may or may not get it depending on if you've seen that phrase used on here)

[fisheralum91]

+k PG!

[mattvsmith]

Looking forward to SatErday,
I think that the AU/Fisher game is an interesting one.
Does Kramer come back after another ankle sprain?
Does Fenti get the nod even tho he cost his team a shot at the E8 outright?
Can AU score on a Fisher D which is by all accounts the best in the league?
Interesting scenerios in any case.
Should be a good one!
5k posts...wahoo!

Since Hobart has a by week, The Rev may tune into the Fisher/Alfred game. I reckon it will be a barn burner.