FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

Well, THAT was an interesting week of E8 football...

Hartwick takes Ithaca to the woodshed? Fisher nearly loses to Frostburg at home? Who saw that coming? Ithaca's offense regressed big time, and both Fisher and Ithaca's defenses disappointed.

Salisbury sent a message though. I really thought Utica would have a puncher's chance in that game, especially at home, but they got almost nothing done on offense. The Gulls look like they might be ready to make a run. They're not the team they were a couple years ago, but that was by far the best conference win anyone's had.

Buff State and Alfred are really interesting. The Bengals had a chance to win and once again killed by a lack of a kicking game. I've always believed teams kick too many FG's, but Buff State's inability to consistently hit XPs is baffling. Two weeks in a row now, they have missed critical XPs. Alfred continues to win despite being a turnover machine at the quarterback position.

It looks like Fisher and Salisbury are the class of the conference, but everyone else seems to have major flaws (unless Hartwick is really good). Not a great crop in the E8 this year

[Jonny Utah]

bombers:

What is the deal with the IC QB situation from last game?

[fisheralum91]

Bombers,
This whole Hartwick thing has me confused.
Did IC come out flat and never recover?
Was Wick dominant in some way?
Fisher going to the city of hills is not giving me a warm fuzzy that it should.....

[Bombers798891]

Bombers,
This whole Hartwick thing has me confused.
Did IC come out flat and never recover?
Was Wick dominant in some way?
Fisher going to the city of hills is not giving me a warm fuzzy that it should.....

Okay, so to answer two questions at once:

I don't know any details on Ithaca's QB situation besides the fact that I got a text from someone at the game which said: "Dempsey warming up on sideline." Maybe he was hurt, or maybe Mike Welch was just trying to find a spark. Neumann was pretty dreadful yesterday, but there were eight fumbles in the game, so maybe it was weather? Neumann is a team captain and played well in 2012 (even if the circumstances of him starting were aided by mass departure at the position), so it's not like there was a QB controversy heading into the year. But unfortunately, Dempsey didn't look especially good either, so the Bombers have questions to ask either way.

As for the overall performance, the defense only allowed 14 points, so it's tough to fault them, but offensively, it was a disaster. Five turnovers, one that put 7 on the board for the Wick. Four sacks allowed. There's emerging talent at WR, but the offensive line continues to not be an asset. And maybe the Wick just matches up well with IC. Last year, they held the Bombers to less than 200 yards offense, and they might have won were it not for a historically bad day from their quarterbacks. I don't think the game was as lopsided as a 21-point deficit suggests, but the Wick was the better team. Good win for them

[AUPepBand]

Well, THAT was an interesting week of E8 football...

Hartwick takes Ithaca to the woodshed? Fisher nearly loses to Frostburg at home? Who saw that coming? Ithaca's offense regressed big time, and both Fisher and Ithaca's defenses disappointed.

Salisbury sent a message though. I really thought Utica would have a puncher's chance in that game, especially at home, but they got almost nothing done on offense. The Gulls look like they might be ready to make a run. They're not the team they were a couple years ago, but that was by far the best conference win anyone's had.

Buff State and Alfred are really interesting. The Bengals had a chance to win and once again killed by a lack of a kicking game. I've always believed teams kick too many FG's, but Buff State's inability to consistently hit XPs is baffling. Two weeks in a row now, they have missed critical XPs. Alfred continues to win despite being a turnover machine at the quarterback position.

It looks like Fisher and Salisbury are the class of the conference, but everyone else seems to have major flaws (unless Hartwick is really good). Not a great crop in the E8 this year

Funny thing about Buff State's kicking game....the only reason the Bengals were (twice) in position to win the game, was because of AU's inconsistent kicking game (two missed PATs vs. Buff State, a missed PAT and chip shot FG at Brockport last week). And, Pep would like to give a little credit to the AU special teams. With the score 27-27 and lining up for the go-ahead PAT, the snap was bobbled...and the kick was BLOCKED. In OT, AU scores a TD and proceeds to miss the PAT (wide). 33-27. Buffalo State's turn. On a 3rd-and-goal from the 19 yard line (following a sack), AU intercepts in the end zone...game over? Na! Instead of taking a knee, the AU DB in his excitement, runs toward the sideline, gets hit by a Buffalo State player who ends up falling on the ball next to the pylon. After the zebras conferred, they declared a TD for Buffalo State. So now, Buff State lines up for the winning PAT and....another bobbled snap and a Saxon possibly got a hand on it...and we go to the 2nd OT. Saxons then held Buff State to 8 yards on four plays....then the Saxon offense marches it in for the win.

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State. Probably only one of the three INTs against Buffalo State was Johnson's fault...one came when an AU player tipped what should have been a completion into the arms of a Buff State LB....the other was an end-of-the-game up-for-grabs (unanswered) Hail Mary.

As for Hartwick, Pep believes the Hawks led the E8 in sacks last year and perhaps has built on that success with a much improved defense capable of keeping them in their E8 games this year. Heck, the Saxons trailed 7-0 at halftime in the cage last year, until halftime adjustments helped the Saxons neutralize that sack-happy Hawk defense and go on to win, 30-13.

Pep has no idea what to expect but is exited to see what transpires at Butter Field saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

[sjfcards]

Well, THAT was an interesting week of E8 football...

Hartwick takes Ithaca to the woodshed? Fisher nearly loses to Frostburg at home? Who saw that coming? Ithaca's offense regressed big time, and both Fisher and Ithaca's defenses disappointed.

Salisbury sent a message though. I really thought Utica would have a puncher's chance in that game, especially at home, but they got almost nothing done on offense. The Gulls look like they might be ready to make a run. They're not the team they were a couple years ago, but that was by far the best conference win anyone's had.

Buff State and Alfred are really interesting. The Bengals had a chance to win and once again killed by a lack of a kicking game. I've always believed teams kick too many FG's, but Buff State's inability to consistently hit XPs is baffling. Two weeks in a row now, they have missed critical XPs. Alfred continues to win despite being a turnover machine at the quarterback position.

It looks like Fisher and Salisbury are the class of the conference, but everyone else seems to have major flaws (unless Hartwick is really good). Not a great crop in the E8 this year

Funny thing about Buff State's kicking game....the only reason the Bengals were (twice) in position to win the game, was because of AU's inconsistent kicking game (two missed PATs vs. Buff State, a missed PAT and chip shot FG at Brockport last week). And, Pep would like to give a little credit to the AU special teams. With the score 27-27 and lining up for the go-ahead PAT, the snap was bobbled...and the kick was BLOCKED. In OT, AU scores a TD and proceeds to miss the PAT (wide). 33-27. Buffalo State's turn. On a 3rd-and-goal from the 19 yard line (following a sack), AU intercepts in the end zone...game over? Na! Instead of taking a knee, the AU DB in his excitement, runs toward the sideline, gets hit by a Buffalo State player who ends up falling on the ball next to the pylon. After the zebras conferred, they declared a TD for Buffalo State. So now, Buff State lines up for the winning PAT and....another bobbled snap and a Saxon possibly got a hand on it...and we go to the 2nd OT. Saxons then held Buff State to 8 yards on four plays....then the Saxon offense marches it in for the win.

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State. Probably only one of the three INTs against Buffalo State was Johnson's fault...one came when an AU player tipped what should have been a completion into the arms of a Buff State LB....the other was an end-of-the-game up-for-grabs (unanswered) Hail Mary.

As for Hartwick, Pep believes the Hawks led the E8 in sacks last year and perhaps has built on that success with a much improved defense capable of keeping them in their E8 games this year. Heck, the Saxons trailed 7-0 at halftime in the cage last year, until halftime adjustments helped the Saxons neutralize that sack-happy Hawk defense and go on to win, 30-13.

Pep has no idea what to expect but is exited to see what transpires at Butter Field saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

Speaking of kicking games, Fisher actually made a field goal this past weekend. No stopping us now! Why is it so hard for D3 teams to find kickers. I feel like it s such a weapon t this level, but no one really seems to be set at place kicker. When extra points are not a given, that is pretty bad.

[Bengalsrule]

Congrats Pep on Saturdays victory!  Tough 1 for the BENGAL faithful to say the least. Strangely enough the Wisconsin -Whitewater loss has been the easiest of the 3 losses to swallow!

Go BENGALS!!

[HSCTiger74]

Well, THAT was an interesting week of E8 football...

Hartwick takes Ithaca to the woodshed? Fisher nearly loses to Frostburg at home? Who saw that coming? Ithaca's offense regressed big time, and both Fisher and Ithaca's defenses disappointed.

Salisbury sent a message though. I really thought Utica would have a puncher's chance in that game, especially at home, but they got almost nothing done on offense. The Gulls look like they might be ready to make a run. They're not the team they were a couple years ago, but that was by far the best conference win anyone's had.

Buff State and Alfred are really interesting. The Bengals had a chance to win and once again killed by a lack of a kicking game. I've always believed teams kick too many FG's, but Buff State's inability to consistently hit XPs is baffling. Two weeks in a row now, they have missed critical XPs. Alfred continues to win despite being a turnover machine at the quarterback position.

It looks like Fisher and Salisbury are the class of the conference, but everyone else seems to have major flaws (unless Hartwick is really good). Not a great crop in the E8 this year

Funny thing about Buff State's kicking game....the only reason the Bengals were (twice) in position to win the game, was because of AU's inconsistent kicking game (two missed PATs vs. Buff State, a missed PAT and chip shot FG at Brockport last week). And, Pep would like to give a little credit to the AU special teams. With the score 27-27 and lining up for the go-ahead PAT, the snap was bobbled...and the kick was BLOCKED. In OT, AU scores a TD and proceeds to miss the PAT (wide). 33-27. Buffalo State's turn. On a 3rd-and-goal from the 19 yard line (following a sack), AU intercepts in the end zone...game over? Na! Instead of taking a knee, the AU DB in his excitement, runs toward the sideline, gets hit by a Buffalo State player who ends up falling on the ball next to the pylon. After the zebras conferred, they declared a TD for Buffalo State. So now, Buff State lines up for the winning PAT and....another bobbled snap and a Saxon possibly got a hand on it...and we go to the 2nd OT. Saxons then held Buff State to 8 yards on four plays....then the Saxon offense marches it in for the win.

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State. Probably only one of the three INTs against Buffalo State was Johnson's fault...one came when an AU player tipped what should have been a completion into the arms of a Buff State LB....the other was an end-of-the-game up-for-grabs (unanswered) Hail Mary.

As for Hartwick, Pep believes the Hawks led the E8 in sacks last year and perhaps has built on that success with a much improved defense capable of keeping them in their E8 games this year. Heck, the Saxons trailed 7-0 at halftime in the cage last year, until halftime adjustments helped the Saxons neutralize that sack-happy Hawk defense and go on to win, 30-13.

Pep has no idea what to expect but is exited to see what transpires at Butter Field saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

Speaking of kicking games, Fisher actually made a field goal this past weekend. No stopping us now! Why is it so hard for D3 teams to find kickers. I feel like it s such a weapon t this level, but no one really seems to be set at place kicker. When extra points are not a given, that is pretty bad.

I'm just speculating here, but I suspect that if high school kickers show any talent they're snapped up by the D1 programs, leaving slim pickings for the D3s.

[AUPepBand]

Congrats Pep on Saturdays victory!  Tough 1 for the BENGAL faithful to say the least. Strangely enough the Wisconsin -Whitewater loss has been the easiest of the 3 losses to swallow!

Go BENGALS!!

You should be proud of your Bengals for clawing themselves back into the game after being down early, 'rule. After seeing the Saxons rally from down 28-0 at Brockport last week, the 20-7 halftime lead over Buffalo State Saturday was anything but comfortable. Pep knows too well how explosive the Bengals can be.

Pep was fraternizing with a few Bengal fans on the shady visitors side before the game, getting out of the hot sun beating down on the Saxon grandstand, and was hoping to see you there! Wish I'd been over there to see AU '74 alum Mark O'Meara lead the AU fans in the "Silent Cheer" and the "Hallelujah!" cheer.

Wow, what a game...was a wild roller coaster ride that had Pep screaming (to himself), "Let me off this thing!!"

Stay tuned!

[sjfcards]

Do any Fisher fans know if Fox is back for good as the D coordinator, or if this year is a one and done type thing? I have not heard, but I am hoping Fisher works something out with him. The D has been really strong since he has been running the show.

[Bombers798891]

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State.

Fantastic! I mean, that is if we ignore the fumble he lost, and the two interceptions thrown by the other guy playing quarterback for Alfred that game. But since they, you know, happened, we should probably count them in the ledger.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Well, THAT was an interesting week of E8 football...

Hartwick takes Ithaca to the woodshed? Fisher nearly loses to Frostburg at home? Who saw that coming? Ithaca's offense regressed big time, and both Fisher and Ithaca's defenses disappointed.

Salisbury sent a message though. I really thought Utica would have a puncher's chance in that game, especially at home, but they got almost nothing done on offense. The Gulls look like they might be ready to make a run. They're not the team they were a couple years ago, but that was by far the best conference win anyone's had.

Buff State and Alfred are really interesting. The Bengals had a chance to win and once again killed by a lack of a kicking game. I've always believed teams kick too many FG's, but Buff State's inability to consistently hit XPs is baffling. Two weeks in a row now, they have missed critical XPs. Alfred continues to win despite being a turnover machine at the quarterback position.

It looks like Fisher and Salisbury are the class of the conference, but everyone else seems to have major flaws (unless Hartwick is really good). Not a great crop in the E8 this year

Funny thing about Buff State's kicking game....the only reason the Bengals were (twice) in position to win the game, was because of AU's inconsistent kicking game (two missed PATs vs. Buff State, a missed PAT and chip shot FG at Brockport last week). And, Pep would like to give a little credit to the AU special teams. With the score 27-27 and lining up for the go-ahead PAT, the snap was bobbled...and the kick was BLOCKED. In OT, AU scores a TD and proceeds to miss the PAT (wide). 33-27. Buffalo State's turn. On a 3rd-and-goal from the 19 yard line (following a sack), AU intercepts in the end zone...game over? Na! Instead of taking a knee, the AU DB in his excitement, runs toward the sideline, gets hit by a Buffalo State player who ends up falling on the ball next to the pylon. After the zebras conferred, they declared a TD for Buffalo State. So now, Buff State lines up for the winning PAT and....another bobbled snap and a Saxon possibly got a hand on it...and we go to the 2nd OT. Saxons then held Buff State to 8 yards on four plays....then the Saxon offense marches it in for the win.

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State. Probably only one of the three INTs against Buffalo State was Johnson's fault...one came when an AU player tipped what should have been a completion into the arms of a Buff State LB....the other was an end-of-the-game up-for-grabs (unanswered) Hail Mary.

As for Hartwick, Pep believes the Hawks led the E8 in sacks last year and perhaps has built on that success with a much improved defense capable of keeping them in their E8 games this year. Heck, the Saxons trailed 7-0 at halftime in the cage last year, until halftime adjustments helped the Saxons neutralize that sack-happy Hawk defense and go on to win, 30-13.

Pep has no idea what to expect but is exited to see what transpires at Butter Field saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

Speaking of kicking games, Fisher actually made a field goal this past weekend. No stopping us now! Why is it so hard for D3 teams to find kickers. I feel like it s such a weapon t this level, but no one really seems to be set at place kicker. When extra points are not a given, that is pretty bad.

It's not just kickers - it's also snappers and holders.  Heck, read the post above, the Buff State problems came on bobbled snaps that led to blocked/deflected kicks.  That doesn't explain all of the struggles, but it does explain some of them.

It is somewhat surprising to me that D3 schools struggle to find better kickers, but on closer examination it's really not.  Kicking even a 30-yard FG isn't as easy as it looks (off a tee with no rush, sure, lots of kids can do it; now try doing it in a one-second window while waiting for the a snap & hold with a rush in your face) and you gotta figure that some kids who might have kicked in college decide that, instead of kicking for a D3 school, they'd rather go to State U and be just a guy, or maybe they end up playing college soccer someplace (lots of HS teams grab a soccer player to kick, but since college soccer teams generally also travel & play on weekends, it's not as easy to pull the soccer/football double in college).

Plus, as I alluded to above, I think a fair amount of struggles in D3 kicking games can be attributed to snapping and holding as well.  Not all of it, but a proportional amount.  If your kicker is 85% as good as a D1 kicker, and your snapper and holder are also 85% as good as D1 snappers/holders, well then you'll miss a couple of kicks for reasons that have nothing to do with the kicker.

[AUPepBand]

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State.

Fantastic! I mean, that is if we ignore the fumble he lost, and the two interceptions thrown by the other guy playing quarterback for Alfred that game. But since they, you know, happened, we should probably count them in the ledger.

Aw shucks....forgot about the fumble at Brockport and the two other picks. Pep has selective memory. Just ask Mrs. Pep. 

[Knightstalker]

Well, THAT was an interesting week of E8 football...

Hartwick takes Ithaca to the woodshed? Fisher nearly loses to Frostburg at home? Who saw that coming? Ithaca's offense regressed big time, and both Fisher and Ithaca's defenses disappointed.

Salisbury sent a message though. I really thought Utica would have a puncher's chance in that game, especially at home, but they got almost nothing done on offense. The Gulls look like they might be ready to make a run. They're not the team they were a couple years ago, but that was by far the best conference win anyone's had.

Buff State and Alfred are really interesting. The Bengals had a chance to win and once again killed by a lack of a kicking game. I've always believed teams kick too many FG's, but Buff State's inability to consistently hit XPs is baffling. Two weeks in a row now, they have missed critical XPs. Alfred continues to win despite being a turnover machine at the quarterback position.

It looks like Fisher and Salisbury are the class of the conference, but everyone else seems to have major flaws (unless Hartwick is really good). Not a great crop in the E8 this year

Funny thing about Buff State's kicking game....the only reason the Bengals were (twice) in position to win the game, was because of AU's inconsistent kicking game (two missed PATs vs. Buff State, a missed PAT and chip shot FG at Brockport last week). And, Pep would like to give a little credit to the AU special teams. With the score 27-27 and lining up for the go-ahead PAT, the snap was bobbled...and the kick was BLOCKED. In OT, AU scores a TD and proceeds to miss the PAT (wide). 33-27. Buffalo State's turn. On a 3rd-and-goal from the 19 yard line (following a sack), AU intercepts in the end zone...game over? Na! Instead of taking a knee, the AU DB in his excitement, runs toward the sideline, gets hit by a Buffalo State player who ends up falling on the ball next to the pylon. After the zebras conferred, they declared a TD for Buffalo State. So now, Buff State lines up for the winning PAT and....another bobbled snap and a Saxon possibly got a hand on it...and we go to the 2nd OT. Saxons then held Buff State to 8 yards on four plays....then the Saxon offense marches it in for the win.

IMHO, "turnover machine at QB position" seems a bit harsh. Johnson had one INT at Brockport State. Probably only one of the three INTs against Buffalo State was Johnson's fault...one came when an AU player tipped what should have been a completion into the arms of a Buff State LB....the other was an end-of-the-game up-for-grabs (unanswered) Hail Mary.

As for Hartwick, Pep believes the Hawks led the E8 in sacks last year and perhaps has built on that success with a much improved defense capable of keeping them in their E8 games this year. Heck, the Saxons trailed 7-0 at halftime in the cage last year, until halftime adjustments helped the Saxons neutralize that sack-happy Hawk defense and go on to win, 30-13.

Pep has no idea what to expect but is exited to see what transpires at Butter Field saterday.

On Saxon Warriors!

Speaking of kicking games, Fisher actually made a field goal this past weekend. No stopping us now! Why is it so hard for D3 teams to find kickers. I feel like it s such a weapon t this level, but no one really seems to be set at place kicker. When extra points are not a given, that is pretty bad.

It's not just kickers - it's also snappers and holders.  Heck, read the post above, the Buff State problems came on bobbled snaps that led to blocked/deflected kicks.  That doesn't explain all of the struggles, but it does explain some of them.

It is somewhat surprising to me that D3 schools struggle to find better kickers, but on closer examination it's really not.  Kicking even a 30-yard FG isn't as easy as it looks (off a tee with no rush, sure, lots of kids can do it; now try doing it in a one-second window while waiting for the a snap & hold with a rush in your face) and you gotta figure that some kids who might have kicked in college decide that, instead of kicking for a D3 school, they'd rather go to State U and be just a guy, or maybe they end up playing college soccer someplace (lots of HS teams grab a soccer player to kick, but since college soccer teams generally also travel & play on weekends, it's not as easy to pull the soccer/football double in college).

Plus, as I alluded to above, I think a fair amount of struggles in D3 kicking games can be attributed to snapping and holding as well.  Not all of it, but a proportional amount.  If your kicker is 85% as good as a D1 kicker, and your snapper and holder are also 85% as good as D1 snappers/holders, well then you'll miss a couple of kicks for reasons that have nothing to do with the kicker.

I can see how getting a high quality kicker could be difficult, long snapping and holding can be coached and accomplished with enough practice.  The long snapper and holder just need a ball enough space to practice don't even need a coach.  A lot of teams may be skimping on the special teams coaching also depending on their budget.

[ExTartanPlayer]

It's not just kickers - it's also snappers and holders.  Heck, read the post above, the Buff State problems came on bobbled snaps that led to blocked/deflected kicks.  That doesn't explain all of the struggles, but it does explain some of them.

It is somewhat surprising to me that D3 schools struggle to find better kickers, but on closer examination it's really not.  Kicking even a 30-yard FG isn't as easy as it looks (off a tee with no rush, sure, lots of kids can do it; now try doing it in a one-second window while waiting for the a snap & hold with a rush in your face) and you gotta figure that some kids who might have kicked in college decide that, instead of kicking for a D3 school, they'd rather go to State U and be just a guy, or maybe they end up playing college soccer someplace (lots of HS teams grab a soccer player to kick, but since college soccer teams generally also travel & play on weekends, it's not as easy to pull the soccer/football double in college).

Plus, as I alluded to above, I think a fair amount of struggles in D3 kicking games can be attributed to snapping and holding as well.  Not all of it, but a proportional amount.  If your kicker is 85% as good as a D1 kicker, and your snapper and holder are also 85% as good as D1 snappers/holders, well then you'll miss a couple of kicks for reasons that have nothing to do with the kicker.

I can see how getting a high quality kicker could be difficult, long snapping and holding can be coached and accomplished with enough practice.  The long snapper and holder just need a ball enough space to practice don't even need a coach.  A lot of teams may be skimping on the special teams coaching also depending on their budget.

Sure, with a lot of practice.  But how many kids do you know that love football so much they'll go out and practice their long-snapping and holding in their spare time?  Yes, there are the outliers, to be sure, and you can prattle off any saying you want about how hard champions work.  You're preaching to the choir if you do so, by the way, not many guys worked harder than I did.  But you're really stretching if you expect that most Division III kids are going to go practice this A LOT, even kids that really love the game, on top of whatever team lifting and conditioning and whatnot.

Re: special teams coaching, I don't know about most Division III schools, but we did not have a dedicated special teams coach when I was in school, and I don't believe that we've hired one since.  Our defensive coordinator ran the punt team, punt return team, and kickoff team.  Our offensive coordinator ran the kickoff team and PAT/FG team.  I expect that the same, or something similar, is true of the majority of D3 schools.