FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

Re: special teams coaching, I don't know about most Division III schools, but we did not have a dedicated special teams coach when I was in school, and I don't believe that we've hired one since.  Our defensive coordinator ran the punt team, punt return team, and kickoff team.  Our offensive coordinator ran the kickoff team and PAT/FG team.  I expect that the same, or something similar, is true of the majority of D3 schools.

Mike Welch has a major hand in Ithaca's return and coverage units, in fact, I think he works directly with the punt return guys (an Ithaca strength since the dawn of time)

[AUPepBand]

Re: special teams coaching, I don't know about most Division III schools, but we did not have a dedicated special teams coach when I was in school, and I don't believe that we've hired one since.  Our defensive coordinator ran the punt team, punt return team, and kickoff team.  Our offensive coordinator ran the kickoff team and PAT/FG team.  I expect that the same, or something similar, is true of the majority of D3 schools.

Mike Welch has a major hand in Ithaca's return and coverage units, in fact, I think he works directly with the punt return guys (an Ithaca strength since the dawn of time)

They are always very good and AU has been victimized a few times. Exited to get to Butterfield again this saterday and see if your boys are as tough as Pep thinks they are.....Homecoming and all. (Ugh....three Homecomings in a row!!)

Get the fight song ready!

[D3MAFAN]

It's not just kickers - it's also snappers and holders.  Heck, read the post above, the Buff State problems came on bobbled snaps that led to blocked/deflected kicks.  That doesn't explain all of the struggles, but it does explain some of them.

It is somewhat surprising to me that D3 schools struggle to find better kickers, but on closer examination it's really not.  Kicking even a 30-yard FG isn't as easy as it looks (off a tee with no rush, sure, lots of kids can do it; now try doing it in a one-second window while waiting for the a snap & hold with a rush in your face) and you gotta figure that some kids who might have kicked in college decide that, instead of kicking for a D3 school, they'd rather go to State U and be just a guy, or maybe they end up playing college soccer someplace (lots of HS teams grab a soccer player to kick, but since college soccer teams generally also travel & play on weekends, it's not as easy to pull the soccer/football double in college).

Plus, as I alluded to above, I think a fair amount of struggles in D3 kicking games can be attributed to snapping and holding as well.  Not all of it, but a proportional amount.  If your kicker is 85% as good as a D1 kicker, and your snapper and holder are also 85% as good as D1 snappers/holders, well then you'll miss a couple of kicks for reasons that have nothing to do with the kicker.

I can see how getting a high quality kicker could be difficult, long snapping and holding can be coached and accomplished with enough practice.  The long snapper and holder just need a ball enough space to practice don't even need a coach.  A lot of teams may be skimping on the special teams coaching also depending on their budget.

Sure, with a lot of practice.  But how many kids do you know that love football so much they'll go out and practice their long-snapping and holding in their spare time?  Yes, there are the outliers, to be sure, and you can prattle off any saying you want about how hard champions work.  You're preaching to the choir if you do so, by the way, not many guys worked harder than I did.  But you're really stretching if you expect that most Division III kids are going to go practice this A LOT, even kids that really love the game, on top of whatever team lifting and conditioning and whatnot.

Re: special teams coaching, I don't know about most Division III schools, but we did not have a dedicated special teams coach when I was in school, and I don't believe that we've hired one since.  Our defensive coordinator ran the punt team, punt return team, and kickoff team.  Our offensive coordinator ran the kickoff team and PAT/FG team.  I expect that the same, or something similar, is true of the majority of D3 schools.

I think if a player knows that they will not play, especially at some decent programs, they will practice long snapping and holding until their shoes fall off. Additionally, at some programs, they snapping and holding very serious and as you aforementioned, many times it is never the kickers fault when a kick attempt fails, it is on the snap and catch/placement by holder. If someone practices enough you will not see as many mess ups as with the Buff State team this past weekend. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

It's not just kickers - it's also snappers and holders.  Heck, read the post above, the Buff State problems came on bobbled snaps that led to blocked/deflected kicks.  That doesn't explain all of the struggles, but it does explain some of them.

It is somewhat surprising to me that D3 schools struggle to find better kickers, but on closer examination it's really not.  Kicking even a 30-yard FG isn't as easy as it looks (off a tee with no rush, sure, lots of kids can do it; now try doing it in a one-second window while waiting for the a snap & hold with a rush in your face) and you gotta figure that some kids who might have kicked in college decide that, instead of kicking for a D3 school, they'd rather go to State U and be just a guy, or maybe they end up playing college soccer someplace (lots of HS teams grab a soccer player to kick, but since college soccer teams generally also travel & play on weekends, it's not as easy to pull the soccer/football double in college).

Plus, as I alluded to above, I think a fair amount of struggles in D3 kicking games can be attributed to snapping and holding as well.  Not all of it, but a proportional amount.  If your kicker is 85% as good as a D1 kicker, and your snapper and holder are also 85% as good as D1 snappers/holders, well then you'll miss a couple of kicks for reasons that have nothing to do with the kicker.

I can see how getting a high quality kicker could be difficult, long snapping and holding can be coached and accomplished with enough practice.  The long snapper and holder just need a ball enough space to practice don't even need a coach.  A lot of teams may be skimping on the special teams coaching also depending on their budget.

Sure, with a lot of practice.  But how many kids do you know that love football so much they'll go out and practice their long-snapping and holding in their spare time?  Yes, there are the outliers, to be sure, and you can prattle off any saying you want about how hard champions work.  You're preaching to the choir if you do so, by the way, not many guys worked harder than I did.  But you're really stretching if you expect that most Division III kids are going to go practice this A LOT, even kids that really love the game, on top of whatever team lifting and conditioning and whatnot.

Re: special teams coaching, I don't know about most Division III schools, but we did not have a dedicated special teams coach when I was in school, and I don't believe that we've hired one since.  Our defensive coordinator ran the punt team, punt return team, and kickoff team.  Our offensive coordinator ran the kickoff team and PAT/FG team.  I expect that the same, or something similar, is true of the majority of D3 schools.

I think if a player knows that they will not play, especially at some decent programs, they will practice long snapping and holding until their shoes fall off. Additionally, at some programs, they snapping and holding very serious and as you aforementioned, many times it is never the kickers fault when a kick attempt fails, it is on the snap and catch/placement by holder. If someone practices enough you will not see as many mess ups as with the Buff State team this past weekend.

For the record, I kind of agree.  I like to think that, in an alternate universe, if I'd walked on at some D1 school (or gone to a D3 power like Mount) I would have practiced long-snapping every day in hopes of getting onto the field somehow.  But I don't think that holds true for the vaaaaaaast majority of guys at D3 schools.  Our team was pretty respectable and I doubt that just about any kid on the team would have thought "Gee, since I'm not going to start this year, I'm going to work really hard on my long-snapping!"  The only kids that snapped/held for us were kids that had done it in high school.

[AUPepBand]

Back in 1970 (does this date Pep?), a good-sized freshman from Bryn Mawr, PA enrolled at Alfred University and, to earn spending money, was given the job of selling programs at the football games. That was when AU had good sized game day programs with advertising, photos of all the players, some interesting stories about former teams, team records, etc. They sold for a buck. The guy utilized his size to his advantage, dressed himself up as a clown and sold lots of programs. During the game, after his programs were "sold out," he would use his size, odd appearance and red vuvuzela to get folks' attention and lead a few cheers during the game. He did that for three straight years.

As he approached his senior year, a friend of his on the team told him about their need for a long snapper. At that time, with (legendary) Coach Alex Yunevich at the helm, AU's football team consisted of about 50 guys when they were all healthy. So, this "clown" became the long snapper for the Saxons of 1973. And did a heck of a job. He was a late arrival at Saturday's Homecoming game with Buffalo State (which he attributed to D.C. being "shut down"...he lives in Fairfax, VA) but he's never missed an AU Homecoming football game since 1970. At each Homecoming game, he leads three cheers for AU...."Give me an A!L!F!R!E!D!", the "Hallelujah Cheer" and, Pep's favorite, the "Silent Cheer."

Mark O'Meara's story was videotaped last year.  Pep posts it here.

On Saxon Warriors!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Very cool on the Mark O'Meara story!  Thanks for sharing.

Anyone think Wick will give SJF a game this week?  I know Wick has a track record of starting fast against questionable OOC competition and struggling in the E8, but that's a nice win over Ithaca, and a similar midseason close-upset of SJF kick-started their brief run in the Boltus era.  Can they do it again?  SJF has been pretty "meh" the last few weeks.  The win over W & J doesn't look as good now as it did at the time, and a close game against Frostburg State isn't terribly inspiring.

[AUPepBand]

Very cool on the Mark O'Meara story!  Thanks for sharing.

Anyone think Wick will give SJF a game this week?  I know Wick has a track record of starting fast against questionable OOC competition and struggling in the E8, but that's a nice win over Ithaca, and a similar midseason close-upset of SJF kick-started their brief run in the Boltus era.  Can they do it again?  SJF has been pretty "meh" the last few weeks.  The win over W & J doesn't look as good now as it did at the time, and a close game against Frostburg State isn't terribly inspiring.

SJFC has had trouble in the cage before and Pep thinks they will be well prepared and bring their "A" game....but then, as they say, history repeats itself. Is this Team Boltus that Hartwick is fielding this year? Pep is thinking the Hawk defense is vastly improved from recent years. Last year the Hawk defensive front, Pep believes, led the E8 in sacks and it appears the back seven are playing better this year. Could be a real fight-to-the-death cage match. Pep is certainly interested. But more than likely, SJFC will put together its first full 60-minute game and hand the Hawks their first loss in a monkey stomp.

[fisheralum91]

The wick game has me scratching my head.
One side looks at the IC win and gets nervous that combined with that damn cage and I get the willies.
On the other side-Im thinking that Pep is right and Fisher comes out guns a blazing and doesn't look back as they plow thru the city of the hills.

[ExTartanPlayer]

The wick game has me scratching my head.
One side looks at the IC win and gets nervous that combined with that damn cage and I get the willies.
On the other side-Im thinking that Pep is right and Fisher comes out guns a blazing and doesn't look back as they plow thru the city of the hills.

Yeah, I agree.  I could see anything from Wick in a close one to Fisher in a laugher.

[Bombers798891]

Things to consider about Hartwick's win over the Bokmbers:

The Wick's offense scored a mere 14 points, and turned the ball over three times. Ithaca's got one of the best defenses in the conference, but 14 points is hardly an outburst.

The Hawks had a dominating defensive performance, but here's Ithaca's scoring drives on their five touchdowns in the past two games:

1. A 16-yard drive following a 39-yard punt return
2. A 63-yard drive in which the Bombers gained 57 yards on the first play
3. A 60-yard drive in which the Bombers gained 63 yards on one play (no, that's not a typo)
4. A 63 yard punt return
5. A 72 yard drive that actually was a drive.

In two games, the Bombers had ONE instance where they put together a touchdown by stringing together a series of first downs. And even against Moravian, there were issues: One touchdown came after a punt return to the 1-yard line. A field goal after starting a drive at the Moravian 22. And let's not forget that Moravian is horrible.

The Bombers offense has just 54 first downs in four games (penalties excluded). Yes, Ithaca allowed four sacks against the Wick, but that was in 49 dropbacks. They allowed four sacks against Buff State in 28 dropbacks. If you take out the two touchdowns handed to them by the punt return unit and the safety the defense scored, they're averaging 16 points a game.

Look, credit the Wick defense for limiting big plays, making a ton of their own, and being the only team to not get killed by Ithaca's punt return unit. But Ithaca's a mediocre to below-average offensive team. They're not going to march down the field on you.

Fisher wins 35-13

[AUKaz00]

Speaking of the Ithaca, I'm not sure what to think about tomorrow's matchup on South Hill either.  Ithaca was good enough to beat Buff State who I think is equal to Alfred and Port.  And Alfred hasn't historically been effective on grass.  Here's to hoping that the Saxons backs keep their legs churning on "Butter Field" and walk out of Ithaca with a win!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Look, credit the Wick defense for limiting big plays, making a ton of their own, and being the only team to not get killed by Ithaca's punt return unit. But Ithaca's a mediocre to below-average offensive team. They're not going to march down the field on you.

Fair enough.  My point is really just that SJF had to work awfully hard to get by a Frostburg State team that also only has one potent side of the ball.  SJF's 38 points and 349 yards against Frostburg are actually quite poor considering what Frostburg has yielded to their other opponents, and SJF's 4-0 is not quite as good as it looks on paper since Otterbein has been merely okay, W & J has too for that matter, and we're not quite sure how good Cortland is yet.  Admittedly, this week actually might be a better matchup for SJF than Frostburg since Wick's offense may not be quite as good as Frostburg's, but still...this has to be the biggest game Wick has played since the Boltus era, and they're at home, who knows?

[fisheralum91]

that cage is just an awful place to catch a game.
Ive posted a thousand times my experiences there...
I just hope Fisher comes home with a w and doesn't look back.

[Yanks 99]

Obviously, I am beyond psyched for the Wick-Fisher game this weekend.  This is a huge opportunity for the Hawks, and will really measure where they are.  Being at home is huge...as traditionally (though not always), we seem to play tough at home, while Fisher has had some struggles there, even against Wick teams that they were far better than.

My head tells me either it will be a close game that (hopefully) Wick pulls out, or Fisher runs away with it.

Here is hoping against hope that somehow Ryan Boyea finds out that he has one more game of eligibility still left, and calmly comes in to drill a 40 yard FG with about a minute to go to give Wick the 31-28 win...

[Bombers798891]

Look, credit the Wick defense for limiting big plays, making a ton of their own, and being the only team to not get killed by Ithaca's punt return unit. But Ithaca's a mediocre to below-average offensive team. They're not going to march down the field on you.

Fair enough.  My point is really just that SJF had to work awfully hard to get by a Frostburg State team that also only has one potent side of the ball.  SJF's 38 points and 349 yards against Frostburg are actually quite poor considering what Frostburg has yielded to their other opponents, and SJF's 4-0 is not quite as good as it looks on paper since Otterbein has been merely okay, W & J has too for that matter, and we're not quite sure how good Cortland is yet.  Admittedly, this week actually might be a better matchup for SJF than Frostburg since Wick's offense may not be quite as good as Frostburg's, but still...this has to be the biggest game Wick has played since the Boltus era, and they're at home, who knows?

I hear you. I just think we should remember that Fisher's a better team than Ithaca is