FB: Empire 8

[fisheralum91]

Maybe if you beat Fisher you would still be crying that you didn't get in!

[wesleydad]

AlfredSaxon, I see your point.  When you pull the 2 losses out alone, they do not say much for the overall playoff worthiness of Fisher.  That is not what is done by the committee, they go by the criteria and make decisions.  I am not even sure if they look at the results of each game to see how much someone won or lost by.  In the end Fisher had numbers that said they should be in.  Having 2 losses in conference is usually a death blow to playoff hopes unless there are 2 top teams who you lost to.  This may have turned out to be an unusual circumstance that gave them the nod.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Maybe if you beat Fisher you would still be crying that you didn't get in!

Im not crying Alfred didnt get in. They dont deserve it. 7-3 was better than I predicted and Im happy with that.

[AlfredSaxon8]

AlfredSaxon, I see your point.  When you pull the 2 losses out alone, they do not say much for the overall playoff worthiness of Fisher.  That is not what is done by the committee, they go by the criteria and make decisions.  I am not even sure if they look at the results of each game to see how much someone won or lost by.  In the end Fisher had numbers that said they should be in.  Having 2 losses in conference is usually a death blow to playoff hopes unless there are 2 top teams who you lost to.  This may have turned out to be an unusual circumstance that gave them the nod.

I appreciate your insight. I just dont feel like Fisher did what they needed to in order to make the playoffs. And that all goes back to your point that usually 2 conference losses is a death sentence.

[fisheralum91]

Saxon 8-
You can disagree all you want on how and why Fisher got in.
That is the beauty of these boards.
My question to you is this...How would you feel if AU won on Saterday?

[Bombers798891]

Final E8 Power Rankings:

1. Ithaca's special teams unit-- The Bombers lost to two teams Fisher beat, but beat the other team Fisher lost to and beat Cardinals straight up. Fisher might be the better team, but Ithaca's H2H win gives it the edge. Can they win their first playoff game since 2003?

2. Fisher-- Somehow, the Cardinals make it in to the playoffs. Could be a dangerous team if they get out of their own way and don't face a team with good return men.

3. Alfred-- At times, the Saxons looked liked the best team in the conference. But the offense failed to show up against Ithaca and Fisher (19 points, 9 turnovers).

4. Salisbury-- Another team that looked, at times, like the best team in the E8, but the offense never really got on track.

5. Team Boltus-- A surprisingly good season for a team that might be making strides

6. Buffalo State-- Never can get a handle on the Bengals. Seems like no team goes back and forth between good and bad like they do

7. Utica-- They were 2-0 and gave Hobart a decent game in Week 3. Had some tough losses, but also didn't beat anyone who didn't stink. Took a definite step back, IMO

8. Frostburg-- How they even stayed on the field against Fisher. much less outgained them by 100 yards on the road, confuses me. But that was a pretty bad team

[sjfcards]

Do they have the talent to play with the best? Yes. And thats why Im so critical of them. This should be an undefeated or 1 loss team. Plain and simple.

Just my $.02. I expected a lot from the SJF team and personally was disappointed.

I don't think that point would get much of an argument from most of the Fisher guys on this page (maybe, but not from me). I have always thought that Fisher found ways to lose games that they should win. Going back to the 'glory days' even. Fisher lost to a really good Springfield team in 2006 before going to the final four, and in 2007 lost to Hartwick before going to the elite 8. Those teams had 3 or 4 players (Stepnick, Robinson, Lang, and Fortune I believe) that were selected to the All Decade team for D3 by this site. Not to mention guys like Rob Kramer, Jimmy Smith, Jame Reille, & Fehrenbach that were nice options to round out a team.

If you need more proof, as good as Fisher has been these past 8-10 years, they have yet to go unbeaten in conference or regular season. Every year there is a game like the IC game this year where I feel like they just let it slip away.

The good news is when Fisher has made the playoffs they typically show very well for school and conference. 

[AlfredSaxon8]

Saxon 8-
You can disagree all you want on how and why Fisher got in.
That is the beauty of these boards.
My question to you is this...How would you feel if AU won on Saterday?

Honestly, Im not trying to side step the question but to me, its not a simple answer. If AU had won, it would be an 8-2 team but with a 6-1 conference record. SJF is an 8-2 team but is tied with 2 other teams at 5-2 in conference. I think its a little different.

Would I be happy AU is in? Absolutely. But you guys are acting like there is no question Fisher deserves it when a couple weeks ago you were set on ECAC's. Im just saying if AU had gone 8-2 and made the playoffs, I would honestly consider them fortunate. Not necessarily lucky because that implies some undeserving accolade, but fortunate. I was part of the '05 team that went 8-2 and was on the outside looking in and that hurt. But, as Bombers said, we didnt win the games we needed to. And I just dont think Fisher did that this year. 

The top teams in the E8 are SJF, IC, AU, and Salisbury. I dont think going 1-2 against those teams qualifies as winning the games they needed to get a playoff spot. Had AU won, at least they would have been 2-1. But they ended up 1-2 against those teams as well.

But to answer your question... If AU beats SJF, do they deserve to get in? Yes. But not because of the Fisher win. Because they finished 6-1 in the E8. If AU beats RPI but still loses to SJF, then absolutely not, I dont think they would deserve it.

[sjfcards]

But you guys are acting like there is no question Fisher deserves it when a couple weeks ago you were set on ECAC's.

I just want to go on record as saying I was surprised Fisher got in. I thought after the AU game Fisher vastly improved their chances considering their overall SOS and playing in a quality conference, but I did not think they would get in with 2 losses. I don't think anyone is saying they should have had a home game, but I don't think it was a huge shock either.

[AlfredSaxon8]

Do they have the talent to play with the best? Yes. And thats why Im so critical of them. This should be an undefeated or 1 loss team. Plain and simple.

Just my $.02. I expected a lot from the SJF team and personally was disappointed.

I don't think that point would get much of an argument from most of the Fisher guys on this page (maybe, but not from me). I have always thought that Fisher found ways to lose games that they should win. Going back to the 'glory days' even. Fisher lost to a really good Springfield team in 2006 before going to the final four, and in 2007 lost to Hartwick before going to the elite 8. Those teams had 3 or 4 players (Stepnick, Robinson, Lang, and Fortune I believe) that were selected to the All Decade team for D3 by this site. Not to mention guys like Rob Kramer, Jimmy Smith, Jame Reille, & Fehrenbach that were nice options to round out a team.

If you need more proof, as good as Fisher has been these past 8-10 years, they have yet to go unbeaten in conference or regular season. Every year there is a game like the IC game this year where I feel like they just let it slip away.

The good news is when Fisher has made the playoffs they typically show very well for school and conference.

Honestly, I think they can and will end up in the Elite 8. They have the talent. But I was disappointed in how they played a lot of this season. And they should have beat at least IC or the Gulls. Then, I would keep my mouth shut lol. But those are quality wins I think they really needed.

[Bombers798891]

But to answer your question... If AU beats SJF, do they deserve to get in? Yes. But not because of the Fisher win. Because they finished 6-1 in the E8. If AU beats RPI but still loses to SJF, then absolutely not, I dont think they would deserve it.

Basically, it seems like you're just looking at conference records as the determining factor.

And they should have beat at least IC or the Gulls. Then, I would keep my mouth shut lol. But those are quality wins I think they really needed.

Had they beaten Salisbury, though, the Gulls would have finished 5-5. How would that be better win than 8-2 W&J, or 6-4 Cortland?

[AlfredSaxon8]

But to answer your question... If AU beats SJF, do they deserve to get in? Yes. But not because of the Fisher win. Because they finished 6-1 in the E8. If AU beats RPI but still loses to SJF, then absolutely not, I dont think they would deserve it.

Basically, it seems like you're just looking at conference records as the determining factor.

And they should have beat at least IC or the Gulls. Then, I would keep my mouth shut lol. But those are quality wins I think they really needed.

Had they beaten Salisbury, though, the Gulls would have finished 5-5. How would that be better win than 8-2 W&J, or 6-4 Cortland?

Not the only determining factor but its very hard to match up conference vs conference. Its hard to determine how other teams from the E8 would do against W and J. So, to me, conference games outweigh OOC. Do they matter? Of course. But take care of what you need to in conference before looking outside the E8.

If SJF beat the Gulls they would be 9-1 and 6-1 losing to IC by a few points. Yes, it would have made the Gulls 5-5 and 4-3 in conference but it would have made AU's win over the Gulls less impressive as well. And instead of losing to the conference champs and another conference foe, they would have lost to just the conference champs.

[SJFF82]

I will probably receive quite a few smites for this but I dont think Fisher should be in. I think Fisher has been very unimpressive in their wins minus the game at Alfred. Other than that, they didnt beat the teams they needed to (IC and the Gulls) and still made the playoffs. I think they are getting a little love for past success. Too many close/unimpressive victories and lackluster performances against two top conferences foes really isnt a playoff resume to me.

Im not sour because of the Alfred game. But what they did to Alfred, they should have beat Utica and Frostburg State the same way and at least split the IC/Gulls game. They never lived up to their potential until 1 quarter at the end of the season. A ball bounces the other way and this could be a 4 loss football team the way they were playing.

"love for past success"  This sounds so 'funny' and so odd to me, one of the posters on here who was around in 2006 on these boards when we couldnt get any respect from RPI posters, IC posters, etc...  We made play-offs in 06 and then we were told we would get crushed by defensive powerhouse Muhlenberg.  Then we were going to get crushed by Union....then we were going to get triple monkey stomped by Rowan (we only laid waste to them by 4 or 5 TDs)....THEN it was time for MUC on the road where certainly we would lose by 50...it was blasphemy to even hint that we would bother getting off the bus in Alliance...then Robinson and the boys only became the first team to rush for 100yds against them in like 3 years, and we were driving for go ahead score with 4 mins to play before wheels fell off....

ok, so I kinda like it now 10 years into our run that QViper said back in the day would last about 4 games, that posters actually think we get too much love   

[SJFF82]

...well I may have mixed and matched some play-off wins in there between '04-'06...but thats ok...the point is...yes...82 is out of the wood work....

[Upstate]

Basically it came down to SJF and Wabash for the last spot in...

Let's look at the numbers the NCAA uses to select teams:

*OWP- Opponents Winning Percentage

SJF:
SOS- 6th (.575)
OWP- 15th (.5889)
Wins vs RR opponents- 2

Wabash:
SOS- 106th (.505)
OWP- 100th (.5056)
Wins vs RR opponents- 0

Guess what, if AU won they would have probably gotten in. Not because of their E8 record but because of their numbers that would have been superior to Wabash's numbers.

AU:
SOS- 24th (.554)
OWP- 43rd (.5556)
Wins vs RR opponents- 2

So your imaginary E8 record argument is just not holding any weight.

Also no I didn't think they'd make it because I didn't look at the SOS, OWP numbers or the Regional Ranked wins. What you fail to notice is that the East Regional Committee basically set it up that the winner of the AU/SJF game would be their #1 Pool C candidate by ranking Brockport 10th.