FB: Empire 8

[Boxer7806]

I don't want to steer you guys off of the SJF talk, but do any of the Ithaca guys know if Neumann the qb from Ithaca done for the year?

[middlerelief]

AlfredSaxon, I see your point.  When you pull the 2 losses out alone, they do not say much for the overall playoff worthiness of Fisher.  That is not what is done by the committee, they go by the criteria and make decisions.  I am not even sure if they look at the results of each game to see how much someone won or lost by.  In the end Fisher had numbers that said they should be in.  Having 2 losses in conference is usually a death blow to playoff hopes unless there are 2 top teams who you lost to.  This may have turned out to be an unusual circumstance that gave them the nod.

Perhaps a message to other teams that it is worth it to schedule tough non-conference games.  In SJF's case, a victory over W&J (conference champ and consistent NCAA Participant), Cortland (ECAC'r and occasional NCAA Tourney Participant), Otterbein 8-2 in OAC prior season --   Or use Franklin as an example -- 3 loss team, but their in. Door mats can boost the overall, but perhaps an established challenger is worth the risk to schedule.

[Mr. Ypsi]

AlfredSaxon, I see your point.  When you pull the 2 losses out alone, they do not say much for the overall playoff worthiness of Fisher.  That is not what is done by the committee, they go by the criteria and make decisions.  I am not even sure if they look at the results of each game to see how much someone won or lost by.  In the end Fisher had numbers that said they should be in.  Having 2 losses in conference is usually a death blow to playoff hopes unless there are 2 top teams who you lost to.  This may have turned out to be an unusual circumstance that gave them the nod.

Perhaps a message to other teams that it is worth it to schedule tough non-conference games.  In SJF's case, a victory over W&J (conference champ and consistent NCAA Participant), Cortland (ECAC'r and occasional NCAA Tourney Participant), Otterbein 8-2 in OAC prior season --   Or use Franklin as an example -- 3 loss team, but their in. Door mats can boost the overall, but perhaps an established challenger is worth the risk to schedule.

The problem with this is the committee is so inconsistent from year-to-year that no one knows how to schedule.  Some years winning % is clearly the overriding criterion; others (like this year) it is trumped by SoS.  Since to be worried about a C, almost by definition you must have suffered a conference loss, getting a non-con loss will often be the kiss of death.

BTW, Franklin is in as an AQ; doubtful they would have made it as a C (though they were only a 2-loss team in games that 'counted'.)

[HScoach]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

For a team as strong as Mount Union, yes; a real risk for most other quality teams!

[Bombers798891]

I don't want to steer you guys off of the SJF talk, but do any of the Ithaca guys know if Neumann the qb from Ithaca done for the year?

Yes, though I don't think the drop off from him to Dempsy is meaningful

[Upstate]

I tried to pick some of the conference awards but other than Coach of the Year I can't decide on who should get what.

In my opinion Welch is a lock for COY but OPOY, DPOY and ROY are really uncertain.

Anyone have any nominees?

[Jonny Utah]

I tried to pick some of the conference awards but other than Coach of the Year I can't decide on who should get what.

In my opinion Welch is a lock for COY but OPOY, DPOY and ROY are really uncertain.

Anyone have any nominees?

I think Boltus as player of the year is a lock

[sjfcards]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

For a team as strong as Mount Union, yes; a real risk for most other quality teams!

I think this is the debate about SOS that causes the criteria for getting in seem inconsistent. For a team like Fisher to schedule a team like Franklin IS very risky. There is a good chance they would lose a game and any conference loss would put them in that awful two loss position. However taking that risk sometimes has it's rewards, let's say losing a second game but getting in because your SOS is so high. Sometime that works for teams sometimes it works against them.

It may seem inconsistent, but to me it is just more risky for teams to do. Sometimes the risk taking will be rewarded, and you will get the benefit of the doubt come selection time. Sometimes you won't and fans will be left scratching their head.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

For a team as strong as Mount Union, yes; a real risk for most other quality teams!

I think this is the debate about SOS that causes the criteria for getting in seem inconsistent. For a team like Fisher to schedule a team like Franklin IS very risky. There is a good chance they would lose a game and any conference loss would put them in that awful two loss position. However taking that risk sometimes has it's rewards, let's say losing a second game but getting in because your SOS is so high. Sometime that works for teams sometimes it works against them.

It may seem inconsistent, but to me it is just more risky for teams to do. Sometimes the risk taking will be rewarded, and you will get the benefit of the doubt come selection time. Sometimes you won't and fans will be left scratching their head.

Good point, but I'm not sure the risk outweighs the reward.  In 2009, for example, NCC lost their opening game to ONU (who finished the season 8-2, but also missed the playoffs).  NCC beat Wheaton but lost to IWU (the only year in seems like forever that IWU beat BOTH NCC and Wheaton! )  NCC was out of the playoffs, but almost certainly would have been in at 9-1.  The same scenario has happened to Wheaton in recent years.

I wish IWU would upgrade their non-con schedule (at least get rid of Alma!), but taking on a Franklin or Wabash might be too risky.  With both NCC and Wheaton in the conference, going 6-1 in conference is the best we can realistically hope for.  A non-con loss is probably fatal.

[sjfcards]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

For a team as strong as Mount Union, yes; a real risk for most other quality teams!

I think this is the debate about SOS that causes the criteria for getting in seem inconsistent. For a team like Fisher to schedule a team like Franklin IS very risky. There is a good chance they would lose a game and any conference loss would put them in that awful two loss position. However taking that risk sometimes has it's rewards, let's say losing a second game but getting in because your SOS is so high. Sometime that works for teams sometimes it works against them.

It may seem inconsistent, but to me it is just more risky for teams to do. Sometimes the risk taking will be rewarded, and you will get the benefit of the doubt come selection time. Sometimes you won't and fans will be left scratching their head.

Good point, but I'm not sure the risk outweighs the reward.  In 2009, for example, NCC lost their opening game to ONU (who finished the season 8-2, but also missed the playoffs).  NCC beat Wheaton but lost to IWU (the only year in seems like forever that IWU beat BOTH NCC and Wheaton! )  NCC was out of the playoffs, but almost certainly would have been in at 9-1.  The same scenario has happened to Wheaton in recent years.

I wish IWU would upgrade their non-con schedule (at least get rid of Alma!), but taking on a Franklin or Wabash might be too risky.  With both NCC and Wheaton in the conference, going 6-1 in conference is the best we can realistically hope for.  A non-con loss is probably fatal.

We had a similar debate on this board not too long ago. I would much prefer Fisher load up cupcakes early in the year and focus on avoiding their annual head scratcher in conference.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Me thinks this link will prove useful come Saturday afternoon.  At least I hope it does.


http://jcusports.com/sports/2013/8/29/fan_0829130037.aspx?id=583

[Jonny Utah]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

For a team as strong as Mount Union, yes; a real risk for most other quality teams!

I think this is the debate about SOS that causes the criteria for getting in seem inconsistent. For a team like Fisher to schedule a team like Franklin IS very risky. There is a good chance they would lose a game and any conference loss would put them in that awful two loss position. However taking that risk sometimes has it's rewards, let's say losing a second game but getting in because your SOS is so high. Sometime that works for teams sometimes it works against them.

It may seem inconsistent, but to me it is just more risky for teams to do. Sometimes the risk taking will be rewarded, and you will get the benefit of the doubt come selection time. Sometimes you won't and fans will be left scratching their head.

Good point, but I'm not sure the risk outweighs the reward.  In 2009, for example, NCC lost their opening game to ONU (who finished the season 8-2, but also missed the playoffs).  NCC beat Wheaton but lost to IWU (the only year in seems like forever that IWU beat BOTH NCC and Wheaton! )  NCC was out of the playoffs, but almost certainly would have been in at 9-1.  The same scenario has happened to Wheaton in recent years.

I wish IWU would upgrade their non-con schedule (at least get rid of Alma!), but taking on a Franklin or Wabash might be too risky.  With both NCC and Wheaton in the conference, going 6-1 in conference is the best we can realistically hope for.  A non-con loss is probably fatal.

We had a similar debate on this board not too long ago. I would much prefer Fisher load up cupcakes early in the year and focus on avoiding their annual head scratcher in conference.

Does playing cupcakes early really help you during the regular season though?  I assume the biggest advantage would be resting starters for the second half?

I guess I'm saying I disagree and that I think it helps playing tougher non-conference games.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Franklin is the perfect non-conference opponent.   Sure fire champion from a weak league.    Almost a lock to be regionally ranked on top of an AQ and a good winning percentage.    IMHO, Franklin is why Mount is the #1 sed overall.    They were the 3rd RRO win for Mount which overcame their average OWP from playing in a 10 team league.

Likewise W&J was huge for SJF and likely was a big reason they got in over Wabash (which I 100% agree with).   2-1 against RRO should trump 0-1 any day.

For a team as strong as Mount Union, yes; a real risk for most other quality teams!

I think this is the debate about SOS that causes the criteria for getting in seem inconsistent. For a team like Fisher to schedule a team like Franklin IS very risky. There is a good chance they would lose a game and any conference loss would put them in that awful two loss position. However taking that risk sometimes has it's rewards, let's say losing a second game but getting in because your SOS is so high. Sometime that works for teams sometimes it works against them.

It may seem inconsistent, but to me it is just more risky for teams to do. Sometimes the risk taking will be rewarded, and you will get the benefit of the doubt come selection time. Sometimes you won't and fans will be left scratching their head.

Good point, but I'm not sure the risk outweighs the reward.  In 2009, for example, NCC lost their opening game to ONU (who finished the season 8-2, but also missed the playoffs).  NCC beat Wheaton but lost to IWU (the only year in seems like forever that IWU beat BOTH NCC and Wheaton! )  NCC was out of the playoffs, but almost certainly would have been in at 9-1.  The same scenario has happened to Wheaton in recent years.

I wish IWU would upgrade their non-con schedule (at least get rid of Alma!), but taking on a Franklin or Wabash might be too risky.  With both NCC and Wheaton in the conference, going 6-1 in conference is the best we can realistically hope for.  A non-con loss is probably fatal.

We had a similar debate on this board not too long ago. I would much prefer Fisher load up cupcakes early in the year and focus on avoiding their annual head scratcher in conference.

Does playing cupcakes early really help you during the regular season though?  I assume the biggest advantage would be resting starters for the second half?

I guess I'm saying I disagree and that I think it helps playing tougher non-conference games.

Yeah, I don't want cupcakes (that's why I'd like to drop Alma - the last 3 years they've won 3, 2, and 1 games, which is an SoS killer), but Hope was ideal: we went 6 for 6, but 5 games were competitive, and they generally had a good to very good record.  (I haven't yet seen our schedule for next year, but, alas, I've seen Hope's and we were not on it. )  Ideally, you play teams that will be very competitive, but there is still a high probability you will win.  (Of course, with scheduling games in advance, that is easier said than done! )

Franklin can afford to take on really elite teams, because they will nearly always win the AQ.  In a conference with three or more near-elite teams, that strategy is very risky with such a short season.

[saxontad]

I like those cupcakes with creme filling.  I prefer white frosting.