FB: Empire 8

[wesleydad]

Interesting week for the Empire 8 with some key games. I think St. John Fisher has to really be impressive against Salisbury and take them to the wood shed. I think St. John Fisher has to continue to exploit the weak Salisbury Secondary and force Salisbury to run lateral defensively. If St. John Fisher can get 40+ on Salisbury and hold them under 20, I think they deserve to be a Top 5 team. Ithaca vs. Utica game looks to be interesting as well, as many you already mentioned, which Utica team shows up this upcoming weekend, the one that played against Frostburg or the one from this past weekend. I look for Ithaca defense to continue to dominate and special teams to perform well, it would be up to Ithaca offense if it can get the running game rolling, which I think they will this upcoming week.

Not while UWW, UMHB, UMU, Wesley and Linfield are undefeated. I have a feeling Salisbury will continue to have Fisher's number though but we'll have to see.

If it was ever set up for Fisher to finally beat Salisbury, this is the year. That does not mean that Fisher will win, but this has to be their best odds going into this game in years. SU has always given Fisher fits, and I am really hoping Fisher can stop that option offense.

Whenever Fisher has played Salisbury or Springfield it always came down to getting stops. They have scored enough on those teams, but could never seem to get off the field when they needed to.

Oh, I believe it. Fisher looks better this year then I have seen recently so it is their best shot. And I could be completely wrong in my prediction. Defense will probably win the game, I predict a high scoring affair either way.

If Fisher is as good as advertised then this game should not be close.  As far as how much they have to win by to make a statement as to how close they are to the upper level teams, that is up in the air.  Fisher can not give up more than 14 - 17 IMO if they are to compete with the top of D3.  They should score in the 30+ range also.  So with my rough math a 3 TD victory would be acceptable.

I told you all after week 2 that this is not a good Salisbury team.  The offense lacks a killer back that they have had in the past and the QB is adequate.  The defense is suspect, I was surprised that the held Buff St under 20 until the 4th quarter last week.  The kicking game is top notch, so dont let it come down to a field goal.  Good luck this week, I don't think you will need it.

[boobyhasgameyo]

One game does not a season make.  It is evident that Salisbury is comparatively down for what they normally are and it is also clear that Wesley was the superior team from top to bottom.  But their body of work thus far suggests they are a more than adequate team that had a really bad week against a great opponent than it does implying they are a bad team because they got hammered by Wesley.  I don't know, I just find it hard to believe Wesley would have beaten them THAT badly if they were to play again let's say. 

What I'm trying to say is it is hard to match what Wesley did to Salisbury, to the point that I'm not even sure Wesley could replicate it.  So if Fisher can't do that as well, I won't knock them for it. 

[fisheralum91]

Fisher gets leapfrogged by John Carrol?
Not that I mind being number 7 but was their win over BW that much better that the Fisher win over fburg?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Fisher gets leapfrogged by John Carrol?
Not that I mind being number 7 but was their win over BW that much better that the Fisher win over fburg?

Yes.

Despite that, I have SJF 6 and JCU 9 on my fan poll ballot.

I was surprised that Heidelberg was one of the teams to fall out - I thought their win Saturday (over ONU) was the most impressive win by any team not named UWSP or St. John's.

[Pat Coleman]

It was half-impressive. The offensive half. Isn't the defensive half disconcerting?

[sjfcards]

Fisher gets leapfrogged by John Carrol?
Not that I mind being number 7 but was their win over BW that much better that the Fisher win over fburg?

Yes.

Despite that, I have SJF 6 and JCU 9 on my fan poll ballot.

I was surprised that Heidelberg was one of the teams to fall out - I thought their win Saturday (over ONU) was the most impressive win by any team not named UWSP or St. John's.

If you say so. I am not sure how a win over a 1-2 BW team at home is that much more impressive than a similar score line on the road for Fisher. I could buy into BW being a better team than Frostburg, but was the game that much more impressive that JCU should jump Fisher? I don't think we're going to agree on that.

I say this every year that one of the reasons I love D3 football is the rankings are fun to discuss, but they really don't mean anything. Where teams end up is decided on the field. Just keep winning and the rankings take care of themselves.

[fisheralum91]

Wait
Pat
We're u mentioning the fisher d?
The played great
Almost perfect actually

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wait
Pat
We're u mentioning the fisher d?
The played great
Almost perfect actually

Pretty sure he meant Heidi - they won 69-52.

It was half-impressive. The offensive half. Isn't the defensive half disconcerting?

Very.  Still they did win by more than two TDs, against a team that despite being 1-2, is a very solid team.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Fisher gets leapfrogged by John Carrol?
Not that I mind being number 7 but was their win over BW that much better that the Fisher win over fburg?

Yes.

Despite that, I have SJF 6 and JCU 9 on my fan poll ballot.

I was surprised that Heidelberg was one of the teams to fall out - I thought their win Saturday (over ONU) was the most impressive win by any team not named UWSP or St. John's.

If you say so. I am not sure how a win over a 1-2 BW team at home is that much more impressive than a similar score line on the road for Fisher. I could buy into BW being a better team than Frostburg, but was the game that much more impressive that JCU should jump Fisher? I don't think we're going to agree on that.

I say this every year that one of the reasons I love D3 football is the rankings are fun to discuss, but they really don't mean anything. Where teams end up is decided on the field. Just keep winning and the rankings take care of themselves.

Agreed on taking that philosophical view.  Fisher still went up in total votes, and they are just behind John Carroll.  What JC has done to date, especially against Heidelberg, has been more impressive than what Fisher has accomplished this year.  My only gripe (if I were to have one) is that this is exactly what John Carroll did last year as they ran through all teams in the OAC not named Mount Union.  That team lost to Fisher in the playoffs, at their own house.  It seems to me that this year's St. John Fisher team is better, so it would stand to reason they would deserve the benefit of the doubt over JC.  But that is a lot of in depth analysis when choosing between the 6 and 7 slot in a top 25 poll.  I doubt the voters go into such deep contemplation since there are so many other teams and rankings to consider. 

Ultimately...not a big deal at all. 

[fisheralum91]

Maybe Im beating a dead horse here, but I dont see the way JCU leapfrogs a team that wins convincingly even if an opponent  has a good day.
The fact is that straight up, Fisher beats Fburg handily and should have moved into the 6 spot.  There was no reason for a leapfrog.
Maybe im missing something- ie the Heidelberg game - if that is it please explain it to me im slow today.

I did my homework and still dont get it.
Checked the competition records etc.

Unless there is a lean for the OAC i dont get it.
Will it straighten out when Otterbein plays more conference foes?

[Bombers798891]

Well, eventually, John Carroll will either lose to Mount and get passed by an unbeaten Fisher, or beat them and deservedly stay ahead. So there's that. The OAC isn't the SEC. You're not going to see a one-loss JCU ahead of an unbeaten Fisher.

Right now, Fisher's got their showdown with Salisbury. I feel like this is Fisher-Ithaca sort of thing. Salisbury's clearly in Fisher's head at this point. But they also seem to have taken a step back for the 3rd year in a row. At this point, if Fisher can't get by them this year at home, you might as well just take them off the schedule, because it's not gonna happen, IMO...

My E8 rankings:
1. Fisher— No pre-Salisbury let down, no stopping for Fisher. A dominating performance, especially the run defense. Good to se Fenti back on track.
2. Ithaca— The clear number two. Sent a strong message with that win. A defense that was replacing a ton of starters looks top-notch again. Need to stay sharp and not have a letdown.
3. Alfred— Holding them here for a week, because it's not like Ithaca is a slouch. Tyler Johnson can make some plays, but he can't keep turning the ball over against strong teams
4. Utica— Is this the year? I don't know if I want to buy into them, but this far into the season, they're still unbeaten. They play Ithaca this week, and have a chance to send a message to the country.
5. Buff State— The offense is legit, but the defense has some serious question marks
6. Salisbury— The Gulls' defense is really struggling this season, which is shocking
7. Brockport— Two wins over 1-3 Oberlin and (barely) 0-3 Cortland.
8. Frostburg— Last week, I asked if there was maybe a sneaky good D in Frostburg. Well, that was a sobering performance, but hey, Fisher's better than IC, so that's why they stay ahead of Team Boltus
9. Team Boltus— Still need to get a defense

[Jonny Utah]

Maybe Im beating a dead horse here, but I dont see the way JCU leapfrogs a team that wins convincingly even if an opponent  has a good day.
The fact is that straight up, Fisher beats Fburg handily and should have moved into the 6 spot.  There was no reason for a leapfrog.
Maybe im missing something- ie the Heidelberg game - if that is it please explain it to me im slow today.

I did my homework and still dont get it.
Checked the competition records etc.

Unless there is a lean for the OAC i dont get it.
Will it straighten out when Otterbein plays more conference foes?

I kind of agree that the win probably wasn't enough to leap JCU over SJF.  I can only imagine two things hapened.

1.  Pollsters really examine the wins/losses and and base some sort of scientific formula on who beats who (like BW is a #50 ranked team compared to Frostburg being #150, so SJF should win by X amount of points and JCU should win by X amount of points)

2.  Pollsters simply forgot to look at last weeks poll, and/or moved JCU over SJF without really looking at the big picture.

I don't have a problem with #1, so Ill give the pollsters the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[82 cardinals]

Fisher has seen the triple option enough where the linebackers will have a good day, which will make Salisbury try to throw which we've seen they cannot do. It's homecoming for fisher I see a good game this week. Fisher with the W this week. We'll get to see if Utica is up to the task against Ithaca, they looked pretty impressive against Brockport.

[fisheralum91]

UC is the enigma.
The test will be IC....
For the sake of the polling and rankings....please lord let IC beat UC!

Sorry Blaise.....
well....not really

[sjfcards]

Fisher has seen the triple option enough where the linebackers will have a good day, which will make Salisbury try to throw which we've seen they cannot do. It's homecoming for fisher I see a good game this week. Fisher with the W this week. We'll get to see if Utica is up to the task against Ithaca, they looked pretty impressive against Brockport.

So far this year Fisher has been good against the run, and that is due to the linebackers keeping contain and pushing runners back inside. But, we have seen good Fisher defenses struggle against the option in the past. If Fisher can keep the offense off schedule (2nd and 8 or 9 instead of 2nd and 5 or 6, 3rd and 5-7, etc) then they will win big.

The issue I see is that when teams run the option it puts pressure on the other offense to put up points early. The option takes up so much clock that getting behind early is deadly. If Fisher can get some stops early I look for them to cruise. If the defense allows SU to get 2,3, 4 first downs each rive then the offense better be pretty good.