FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

The issue is the lack of at-larges. It's an issue across D-3. In every sport top 25 teams don't make the tournament because of lack of at-larges. Maybe have 16 teams play in a play-in round to move the current number from 32 to 40 teams is a solution. It'll get the ECFC and NEFC teams wasting space cut in half and will allow the committee to hand out 14 at-larges instead of 6. Granted this will violate the 1 in 7 or whatever the number is rule and push the end of the season a week back. But it'll solve the issue of very good teams being left out because a great team is in the conference without watering down the bracket by going to 64 teams.

I just don't see adding an extra week to the season, unfortunately

[jackson5]

The issue is the lack of at-larges. It's an issue across D-3. In every sport top 25 teams don't make the tournament because of lack of at-larges. Maybe have 16 teams play in a play-in round to move the current number from 32 to 40 teams is a solution. It'll get the ECFC and NEFC teams wasting space cut in half and will allow the committee to hand out 14 at-larges instead of 6. Granted this will violate the 1 in 7 or whatever the number is rule and push the end of the season a week back. But it'll solve the issue of very good teams being left out because a great team is in the conference without watering down the bracket by going to 64 teams.

I just don't see adding an extra week to the season, unfortunately

I agree. That's a major issue. Games in November and December in the northeast are bad enough. Maybe starting the season a week earlier. One thing we've learned across all sports though is that this 7:1 or whatever the ratio is isn't enough bids. Too many good teams are left out.

[D3MAFAN]

The issue is the lack of at-larges. It's an issue across D-3. In every sport top 25 teams don't make the tournament because of lack of at-larges. Maybe have 16 teams play in a play-in round to move the current number from 32 to 40 teams is a solution. It'll get the ECFC and NEFC teams wasting space cut in half and will allow the committee to hand out 14 at-larges instead of 6. Granted this will violate the 1 in 7 or whatever the number is rule and push the end of the season a week back. But it'll solve the issue of very good teams being left out because a great team is in the conference without watering down the bracket by going to 64 teams.

I just don't see adding an extra week to the season, unfortunately

I agree. That's a major issue. Games in November and December in the northeast are bad enough. Maybe starting the season a week earlier. One thing we've learned across all sports though is that this 7:1 or whatever the ratio is isn't enough bids. Too many good teams are left out.

I would be in favor of starting the season earlier, however due to budget concerns and having to pay for those student-athletes housing and meals during the time before school, that is going to be a tough pill to swallow for many (if not all) teams, the only another option would be to eliminate the bye-week, which is totally out of the question. Maybe in the near future we extend the bracket to have play-in games and extend the playoffs a week. Not to many teams will be playing past Thanksgiving anyway. The only teams playing are the teams that advance. At least if you do make it past Thanksgiving, the student body is back on campus to support. The other Divisions have their championship games well into January now. We can move our Stagg game until after Christmas, maybe being played between the 27th-29th this year (many people takeoff during this time anyway).

[Bombers798891]

Why not try a compromise?

To earn an auto-bid, you mist win your conference and be in the Top 25 of the d3football/AFCA poll—I'd prefer the d3 poll, but if you really want to go AFCA, alright.

Okay, so it's a little BCS-esque. But you're still keeping the auto-bid system and rewarding conference winners. You're simply eliminating the 3/4loss conference champs from automatically taking a bid from a team like Oshkosh or St. Thomas. Those 7-3/6-4 teams would see be considered, and could absolutely qualify, but you'd eliminate the obvious outliers—like when St. Lawrence won the LL at 5-5 (and could have won it at 4-6).

To me, that provides an incentive for teams like Norwich to improve on the field, rather than form a conference of misfit toys. It still rewards conference winners while also allowing for conferences to have several elite teams. It keeps access high while strengthening the overall field of 32.

[AUPepBand]

Why not try a compromise?

To earn an auto-bid, you mist win your conference and be in the Top 25 of the d3football/AFCA poll—I'd prefer the d3 poll, but if you really want to go AFCA, alright.

Okay, so it's a little BCS-esque. But you're still keeping the auto-bid system and rewarding conference winners. You're simply eliminating the 3/4loss conference champs from automatically taking a bid from a team like Oshkosh or St. Thomas. Those 7-3/6-4 teams would see be considered, and could absolutely qualify, but you'd eliminate the obvious outliers—like when St. Lawrence won the LL at 5-5 (and could have won it at 4-6).

To me, that provides an incentive for teams like Norwich to improve on the field, rather than form a conference of misfit toys. It still rewards conference winners while also allowing for conferences to have several elite teams. It keeps access high while strengthening the overall field of 32.

Pep would like to nominate Bombers798891 as Commissioner of NCAA Division III Football. Take charge, Commish!

+k for insightful and inciteful posts...

On Saxon Warriors!

[D3MAFAN]

Why not try a compromise?

To earn an auto-bid, you mist win your conference and be in the Top 25 of the d3football/AFCA poll—I'd prefer the d3 poll, but if you really want to go AFCA, alright.

Okay, so it's a little BCS-esque. But you're still keeping the auto-bid system and rewarding conference winners. You're simply eliminating the 3/4loss conference champs from automatically taking a bid from a team like Oshkosh or St. Thomas. Those 7-3/6-4 teams would see be considered, and could absolutely qualify, but you'd eliminate the obvious outliers—like when St. Lawrence won the LL at 5-5 (and could have won it at 4-6).

To me, that provides an incentive for teams like Norwich to improve on the field, rather than form a conference of misfit toys. It still rewards conference winners while also allowing for conferences to have several elite teams. It keeps access high while strengthening the overall field of 32.

I can't reward a 3/4  loss team regardless of what conference they helm from, clearly that had any and every chance to prove themselves and 4 losses is totally out of deserving, 2 losses is fine. Regardless, there have been occasions of teams from bottom dweller conferences (i.e. St. Scholastica) that has gone undefeated throughout the season an not crack the D III poll, when you included the AFCA poll, you are clearly going to see them there. I just can't reward a team for having 4 losses and say they deserve to be in the playoffs, you are in the conference of your choosing. 

[jackson5]

Why not try a compromise?

To earn an auto-bid, you mist win your conference and be in the Top 25 of the d3football/AFCA poll—I'd prefer the d3 poll, but if you really want to go AFCA, alright.

Okay, so it's a little BCS-esque. But you're still keeping the auto-bid system and rewarding conference winners. You're simply eliminating the 3/4loss conference champs from automatically taking a bid from a team like Oshkosh or St. Thomas. Those 7-3/6-4 teams would see be considered, and could absolutely qualify, but you'd eliminate the obvious outliers—like when St. Lawrence won the LL at 5-5 (and could have won it at 4-6).

To me, that provides an incentive for teams like Norwich to improve on the field, rather than form a conference of misfit toys. It still rewards conference winners while also allowing for conferences to have several elite teams. It keeps access high while strengthening the overall field of 32.

Here's the issue. Norwich is never going to get better that way then. Recruiting is going to be 5 times harder at Norwich as other schools will just say don't go to Norwich as you have no shot at going to the tournament. You need the autobid with the chance at upsets to get better. Also they'll be years when a team from the ECFC is actually good. But since they aren't in a real conference they won't get top 25 votes. So instead of getting an autobid and pulling off an upset or two they are sitting home because the committee assumed they only ran the table because they are in a weak conference not because they are good.

[Pat Coleman]

BTW, the 2008 Whitewater team which played in the Stagg Bowl was a Pool C team.

My take on this is that we need to adopt Division II's policy of "earned access" for Division III football. In D-II, the top six teams in each region get playoff bids, but teams ranked No. 7 or No. 8 can steal one of those bids from a conference runner-up if they are a conference champion.

Here's how I would modify this and make it more in line with the Division III philosophy -- primarily by making the bar higher for exclusion. I really just want to reclaim one or two bids per year. So I would say that in order to get a playoff bid, you must win your conference and be in the top 15 in the regional ranking. If not, that bid reverts to at-large.

For example, last year we may have lost St. Norbert from that field. In 2012, Mount Ida, St. Scholastica and Christopher Newport.

We could write in safeguards that say no conference will lose its AQ in more than two consecutive years, ensuring every graduating class has a chance to play for an NCAA bid.

[lewdogg11]

BTW, the 2008 Whitewater team which played in the Stagg Bowl was a Pool C team.

My take on this is that we need to adopt Division II's policy of "earned access" for Division III football. In D-II, the top six teams in each region get playoff bids, but teams ranked No. 7 or No. 8 can steal one of those bids from a conference runner-up if they are a conference champion.

Here's how I would modify this and make it more in line with the Division III philosophy -- primarily by making the bar higher for exclusion. I really just want to reclaim one or two bids per year. So I would say that in order to get a playoff bid, you must win your conference and be in the top 15 in the regional ranking. If not, that bid reverts to at-large.

For example, last year we may have lost St. Norbert from that field. In 2012, Mount Ida, St. Scholastica and Christopher Newport.

We could write in safeguards that say no conference will lose its AQ in more than two consecutive years, ensuring every graduating class has a chance to play for an NCAA bid.

Yeah but who is doing the Regional Rankings?  Have you seen the regional rankings at the end of the regular season the last few years?  I feel like they almost always sneak in the top 10 just based on record or winning a conference.

[Bombers798891]

Here's the issue. Norwich is never going to get better that way then. Recruiting is going to be 5 times harder at Norwich as other schools will just say don't go to Norwich as you have no shot at going to the tournament. You need the autobid with the chance at upsets to get better. Also they'll be years when a team from the ECFC is actually good. But since they aren't in a real conference they won't get top 25 votes. So instead of getting an autobid and pulling off an upset or two they are sitting home because the committee assumed they only ran the table because they are in a weak conference not because they are good.

1. Norwich could absolutely get better. As I pointed out, St. John Fisher went from a terrible team to a great one quickly, If you get the right coach, and sell guys on the long-term vision, you can absolutely get guys to come

2. You say a team like Norwich would never get better under the system, but then you say they'll be years where a team will actually be good, but no one will know. Which is it?

3. ECFC teams could absolutely prove themselves despite playing in a "bad" conference. It's called scheduling quality opponents out of conference. It's not that hard. Gallaudet has improved their scheduling somewhat, which is one of the reasons Gallaudet was taken more seriously than teams like Norwich, who continued to play, and lose, to an E8 bottom-feeder

[ECoastFootball]

Gallaudet has improved their scheduling somewhat, which is one of the reasons Gallaudet was taken more seriously than teams like Norwich, who continued to play, and lose, to an E8 bottom-feeder

You mean Norwich then, not now right? This year Norwich played WPI, RPI and SLU OOC. They've played SLU for years now, and before they were playing RPI it was WNEC.

[Bombers798891]

Gallaudet has improved their scheduling somewhat, which is one of the reasons Gallaudet was taken more seriously than teams like Norwich, who continued to play, and lose, to an E8 bottom-feeder

You mean Norwich then, not now right? This year Norwich played WPI, RPI and SLU OOC. They've played SLU for years now, and before they were playing RPI it was WNEC.

Yeah, I was referring to the 2011 Norwich team that won the autobid

[ECoastFootball]

Gallaudet has improved their scheduling somewhat, which is one of the reasons Gallaudet was taken more seriously than teams like Norwich, who continued to play, and lose, to an E8 bottom-feeder

You mean Norwich then, not now right? This year Norwich played WPI, RPI and SLU OOC. They've played SLU for years now, and before they were playing RPI it was WNEC.

Yeah, I was referring to the 2011 Norwich team that won the autobid

Haha. That team was not a very good football team.

[jackson5]

Here's the issue. Norwich is never going to get better that way then. Recruiting is going to be 5 times harder at Norwich as other schools will just say don't go to Norwich as you have no shot at going to the tournament. You need the autobid with the chance at upsets to get better. Also they'll be years when a team from the ECFC is actually good. But since they aren't in a real conference they won't get top 25 votes. So instead of getting an autobid and pulling off an upset or two they are sitting home because the committee assumed they only ran the table because they are in a weak conference not because they are good.

1. Norwich could absolutely get better. As I pointed out, St. John Fisher went from a terrible team to a great one quickly, If you get the right coach, and sell guys on the long-term vision, you can absolutely get guys to come

2. You say a team like Norwich would never get better under the system, but then you say they'll be years where a team will actually be good, but no one will know. Which is it?

3. ECFC teams could absolutely prove themselves despite playing in a "bad" conference. It's called scheduling quality opponents out of conference. It's not that hard. Gallaudet has improved their scheduling somewhat, which is one of the reasons Gallaudet was taken more seriously than teams like Norwich, who continued to play, and lose, to an E8 bottom-feeder

Look at Gonzaga and Butler in D-1 basketball. They had a couple sweet sixteen runs 10+ years ago and was able to use that success to build up programs that eventually became powerhouses. Under your plan they wouldn't have been in the tournament years ago because they weren't an elite team yet.  You need the access to the tournament to be able to build up your programs.

For the unexpected teams. Look at UCF football last year. They snuck into the BCS based on some rules. In all honestly no one expected them to be a great team last year. They ended up beating Baylor. Had there been a 16 or 32 team playoff they probably win a couple games and get to the final 8 or final 4. They can then use that success to pitch recruits and become better. What you are proposing will just chase a bigger separation between NEFC and E8 teams, not inspire them to become better.

[D3viewer]

I realize school media releases tend to be a bit boastful and homerish, but this seems a bit over the top.

From the Frostburg preview of the Brockport game :

"The Coaches
Fitzgerald (Frostburg's 1st year HC) hit the ground running following his hire at Frostburg State and he quickly filled out his staff with some of the nation's top coaches." ---FSU media release 10/9/14

"the nation's top coaches.."  Really ? based on what ? They were basically hold overs from his staff at Southern Virginia. I had to chuckle at that one. Never heard of these guys.