FB: Empire 8

[boobyhasgameyo]

And I think you are drawing too heavily off of that game.  The good news is if Fisher wins this week they will be assured a playoff spot, and then we'll both get to see. 

[boobyhasgameyo]

Linfield just lost to Willamette, a team that previously lost to Whitworth and was completely stomped by Pacific Lutheran.  Linfield must be a step or two behind the top teams of D3?  Or let's just say since Willamette has only lost 2 games that Linfield is a step behind the top teams, not upwards of two steps.  Right? 

Or explain to me why that logic holds up for one team but not another. 

[wesleydad]

Linfield just lost to Willamette, a team that previously lost to Whitworth and was completely stomped by Pacific Lutheran.  Linfield must be a step or two behind the top teams of D3?  Or let's just say since Willamette has only lost 2 games that Linfield is a step behind the top teams, not upwards of two steps.  Right? 

Or explain to me why that logic holds up for one team but not another.

It doesn't.  That is a bad loss for Linfield and would put them in the same position as Fisher.  Booby, you do not have to be so sensitive when it comes to defending Fisher, they are good, just in my opinion a step or 2 below the top.  You can not ignore the common opponent comparison with Wesley who held Salisbury to 3 points.  I hope Fisher wins this week because I like how they play when I saw them play a few years ago.  If it wasn't a 6 hour ride, poor calculation on my part when I thought is was 4 hours, I would gladly take the ride to see the game this weekend.  As things are playing out there is a chance that Fisher and Wesley will be in the same bracket which would be fun to see.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The season started with 6 'elite' teams.  Losses by NCC and Linfield dropped the 'elite' to 4. 

Just below them are such teams as Fisher, JCU, Bethel Wabash, Wartburg, etc.

[boobyhasgameyo]

I'm not trying to argue elite this or that.  I just think this is a very good Fisher team, one of the best we've had in the 12 years I've been watching them play, and it's getting discredited for a reason I would qualify as lacking the degree of merit warranted to make such a claim.  That's why I'm getting so defensive about it. 

And Wesleydad - score comparisons aren't the best indicators for anything in this conference.  Look at the scores of the games in the E8 this year.  Look at how Brockport and Ithaca had a common opponent in Frostburg.  Look at the score differentials there, and see how in the end it didn't mean anything for Brockport.  That is one example of a dozen, and that's just in the E8. 

This week Fisher is going to play a team that held them to 7 points and blew them out nearly as handily as Wesley did.  If Fisher in turn beats Ithaca handily I would be a fool to extrapolate from that a direct comparison between Fisher and Wesley.  Granted that is taking it another layer deeper, but you get my point. 

[fisheralum91]

Ill chime in on this Fisher v Salisb situation.
Wesleydad is not wrong.
We lost to an inferior team.
We lost to an offensive system that has given us fits since we went DIII.
We lose a game each year at the weirdest time.
That said........Each of those losses has helped the team regain focus and go further.
Is this a good Fisher team this year....yes it is..
Can they make a deep run again....yes...yes they can...
Are they an elite team......compared to UWW UMU UMHB ..no...not until they knock one out.
Is Wesley?
Last I checked they havent won a natl championship......
Are they close..yes...but until they do the exact same thing...we are arguing semantics...
Wesley is indeed a top ten team......but the separation from Fisher is not as stark as Wesleydad thinks...and that is with all due respect to Wesley dad- whose opinion i really respect.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Really though, I'm not trying to compare Fisher to another team specifically.  I've watched a tonnnnn of Fisher games over the years, including every game this year (and paying money to see them blowout Alfred State).  I have a pretty good feel for the team, and they are in the top 3 best teams Fisher has ever had.  So you can understand how a person could be a little heated when somebody flippantly says they are likely "a step or two" below the top teams.  I was taking top teams as more than just the purples, but the likes of Wartburg, Hobart, John Carroll, etc.  I disagree with that wholeheartedly, as you can see. 

[Bombers798891]

Regarding Ithaca and the sacks...let's remember that brockport had 21 sacks in the seven previous games. Yes, six is bad, but Brockport can get after the passer quite a bit. I'll post a more detailed IC breakdown this week

Re: fisher and Salisbury. Look, it's true that fisher won't play a triple option team in the playoffs. And yeah it's a tricky offense. That said, how many years has it been?  It's not like it's a state secret. Yeah it probably won't matter. But what happens if they lose to IC again? Last year, one of you guys were so resigned to the ECACs, you asked if Fisher should have started Naton against Alfred to maybe get a jump on next year. Yes, after the fact, we can laugh about how fisher, as always, made a great postseason run. But the triple option, kept the 2010 team from the playoffs, and nearly cost them a berth last year. These losses have an impact on the program, and maybe they won't need to worry about it in future years, but it's stunning how much they struggle with it.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Regarding Ithaca and the sacks...let's remember that brockport had 21 sacks in the seven previous games. Yes, six is bad, but Brockport can get after the passer quite a bit. I'll post a more detailed IC breakdown this week

Re: fisher and Salisbury. Look, it's true that fisher won't play a triple option team in the playoffs. And yeah it's a tricky offense. That said, how many years has it been?  It's not like it's a state secret. Yeah it probably won't matter. But what happens if they lose to IC again? Last year, one of you guys were so resigned to the ECACs, you asked if Fisher should have started Naton against Alfred to maybe get a jump on next year. Yes, after the fact, we can laugh about how fisher, as always, made a great postseason run. But the triple option, kept the 2010 team from the playoffs, and nearly cost them a berth last year. These losses have an impact on the program, and maybe they won't need to worry about it in future years, but it's stunning how much they struggle with it.

Agreed on all of that Bombers.  Actually, I have 2010 as the 3rd team in that all time Fisher top 3 (2006 and this year being the other two).  Ahead of the 2007 elite 8 team and last year's elite 8 team.  So if IC beats Fisher this weekend it'll be the 2nd bad case of the "really wish I could have seen what they would have done" come tournament time. 

[AUPepBand]

They own us...

I have no other explanation...

It is Pep's understanding that defending the triple option involves defenders being disciplined enough to follow their assignments rather than their instincts.

Pep observed that the Saxons--versus Springfield first, and then Salisbury--struggled at first in defending the triple option but as time went on, the players learned to follow their assignments, trust their teammates were doing their jobs and had pretty good success against SC and SU.

But Pep never played football ... so what does he know? 

[AUPepBand]

Pep, nice win for the Saxons in Salisbury.  The gulls are a shell of past years and I still can not imagine how they beat Fisher.  It makes no sense and makes me think that Fisher is a step or 2 below the top of D3.

Thanks, 'dad! The Saxons are not so sharp as they've been in prevoius years (losses this year to Ithaca, Brockport, Hartwick) but Pep fully anticipated it would be a rebuilding year, what with new coaching staff (assistants) and the fact AU awarded jerseys to 23 seniors last year. The win was huge for this bunch. This is a young spirited Saxon squad that never quits. Just hoping they can keep it going at Utica Saterday.

Question for you, 'dad: Did SU reverse its bleachers and put the home team on the opposite side? When Pep and Pep's pops were there in 2012, the Saxons were on the side of the field with the scoreboard and there was no press box on that side. It appeared from the webcast that they had removed the home grandstand, all but the press box, then put three little sections of bleachers for the visitors there. Couldn't tell what the home side looked like.

On Saxon Warriors!

[Pat Coleman]

They did recently unveil plans for a grand new stadium, one worthy of their national status ... in lacrosse, but still, a fantastic looking stadium. Groundbreaking to occur soon, it sounds like. So maybe this is part of the prep work.

[AUPepBand]

They did recently unveil plans for a grand new stadium, one worthy of their national status ... in lacrosse, but still, a fantastic looking stadium. Groundbreaking to occur soon, it sounds like. So maybe this is part of the prep work.

That makes sense....thanks, Pat!

[Bombers798891]

Re Ithaca's strengths and weaknesses:

Offensively, they are dangerous passing the ball. Dempsey had a train wreck of a game against Buff State, but he's averaging 235 yards a game, completing 67% of his passes, and has a 20-6 TD/INT line. IC isn't a big-play offense, but when they're careful with the ball, they move it well in the air.

I don't really know what to expect running game wise. Tristan Brown was one of the best backs in the conference, but if he's hurt, you're probably looking at Josh Oliver, and while he had a great game against Brockport...it's one game

Defensively, Ithaca is better than their 17 PPG allowed indicates...remember, there were two defensive TDs by the Bengals in the Buff State game, and the Frostburg game went to 2 OT. The Bombers' didn't play well in the OTs, but the field is still tilted to the offense because of the stupid system CFB uses.

I think Ithaca's a sum > parts defense. No one player has more than 55 tackles, or more than 7.5 TFL. Only one player has more than three sacks, and that player has just  15 total tackles. Just one player has more than one INT.

Ithaca's return units have been quiet...but if Oliver is indeed the RB, then that means Sam Carney may return punts, and he's a better returner than Oliver. Fisher fans probably remember last year...

Overall, my opinion has not changed. Fisher is the best team in the East. 31-14 Cards

[AUPepBand]

Re Ithaca's strengths and weaknesses:

Offensively, they are dangerous passing the ball. Dempsey had a train wreck of a game against Buff State, but he's averaging 235 yards a game, completing 67% of his passes, and has a 20-6 TD/INT line. IC isn't a big-play offense, but when they're careful with the ball, they move it well in the air.

I don't really know what to expect running game wise. Tristan Brown was one of the best backs in the conference, but if he's hurt, you're probably looking at Josh Oliver, and while he had a great game against Brockport...it's one game

Defensively, Ithaca is better than their 17 PPG allowed indicates...remember, there were two defensive TDs by the Bengals in the Buff State game, and the Frostburg game went to 2 OT. The Bombers' didn't play well in the OTs, but the field is still tilted to the offense because of the stupid system CFB uses.

I think Ithaca's a sum > parts defense. No one player has more than 55 tackles, or more than 7.5 TFL. Only one player has more than three sacks, and that player has just  15 total tackles. Just one player has more than one INT.

Ithaca's return units have been quiet...but if Oliver is indeed the RB, then that means Sam Carney may return punts, and he's a better returner than Oliver. Fisher fans probably remember last year...

Overall, my opinion has not changed. Fisher is the best team in the East. 31-14 Cards

Pep will agree in part to this statement and say that Fisher has the most talent of teams in the East but the Cardinals don't always perform in the regular season to their true potential. This game is for all the E8/9 marbles so, in a way, the "playoffs" have begun for Fisher, where the Cardinals tend to rise to each new challenge. Fisher wins at home, 35-27. *But Pep, in order to see the Empire 8/9 follow its season narrative of parity, will be rooting for the Bombers. A Bomber win gives IC the AQ and leaves Fisher limping off to Mayberry where the Saxons would like nothing better than altogether eliminate the Cardinals from the NCAA playoff conversation (like they have before on occasion). 

*Sometime in the off-season, Pep half-wittedly suggested that the Empire 8/9 could finish with nine teams tied for first with 4-4 conference records. At present, FIVE of the Empire 8/9 are tied with 3-3 records and y'all have read last week's Around the Nation column. 

Let's go ALFRED!