FB: Empire 8

[ExTartanPlayer]

Beginning next year - which conference will be the better overall conference in the east?  The NJAC or the finally all in NY E8(9)? 

We are switching Cortland for Salisbury.  Both teams are down this year compared to where they usually are.  At their best Salisbury has the edge in my mind.  Switching Frostburg for Morrisville isn't even close right now.  One program is up and coming, steadily rising, and just finished 8-2.  The other is Frostburg.  Advantage E8 on that one.

But then the NJAC is bringing in some team from Delaware.  I can't remember their name.  Besley maybe?  Huge addition at the top. 

To me the NJAC is going to be much heavier at the top with Salisbury and Besley, assuming the steaks round back into form.  But the E8 now becomes even more balanced with trading away Frostburg with a decent team on the rise.  Also, if Cortland rounds back into form much like Salisbury, they are a top 25 caliber team. 

I think E8 will be the better conference overall.  But the top of the NJAC could rival the top of any of the other power conferences in a way the E8 just can't match.  They will be like the OAC almost.  One great team, a rotating spot for a really good team, some decent ones, and then there is the bottom of the conference where the quality drops significantly from the top.

Will the NJAC change its name now that most of the member schools won't even be in New Jersey?

Kidding aside, that's a fascinating question and one that we won't know the answer to for a few years, methinks.  I don't think either league will be clearly established as better than the other.  Probably sorta like comparing the MIAC and WIAC right now, actually.  WIAC has a beast at the top and some pretty-good teams lurking beneath it that seem to rotate a bit year to year (what you're expecting from Wesley and the NJAC) while the MIAC probably has more top-to-bottom depth and more realistic title contenders every year (like the E8/9).

Sidebar on this, which I've mentioned a few times, is that I don't think Wesley is a lock to win the NJAC every year, though.  I expect Wesley to be a perennial contender and win the league pretty often, but given that Rowan and Kean have beaten them in recent years, I don't think we're about to see a decade-long run without a loss, like Mount owning the OAC or UWW owning the WIAC (2012 aside).  Wesley will get some stiff challenges from the rotating cast of Rowan, Kean, and whomever else steps up to the plate in a given season.

[Bombers798891]

To me, the NJAC will have the best team (Wesley) but there's so much dead weight in that conference.

Kean and TCNJ are probably going to go 2-8. Southern Virginia will probably be 1-9, unless they win and knock WP down to 3-7. None of those teams beat anyone other than each other in conference all year.

I do think Morrisville is in for a shock though. Their wins this season:

2-7 Wick
1-7 Alfred State
4-5 Cortland
2-7 Kean
3-6 WP
1-8 S. Virginia
2-7 TCNJ
7-2 Montclair

They did beat Montclair of course, but they didn't play tough competition week in, week out. And they needed a borderline miracle to beat the Wick

[jmcozenlaw]

To me, the NJAC will have the best team (Wesley) but there's so much dead weight in that conference.

Kean and TCNJ are probably going to go 2-8. Southern Virginia will probably be 1-9, unless they win and knock WP down to 3-7. None of those teams beat anyone other than each other in conference all year.

I do think Morrisville is in for a shock though. Their wins this season:

2-7 Wick
1-7 Alfred State
4-5 Cortland
2-7 Kean
3-6 WP
1-8 S. Virginia
2-7 TCNJ
7-2 Montclair

They did beat Montclair of course, but they didn't play tough competition week in, week out. And they needed a borderline miracle to beat the Wick

Bombers - Before Stevenson and Misericordia came on board, there were serious discussions about Wesley and Salisbury joining the MAC.

Wesley as the beast..........followed by Salisbury/DVC/Widener/Lycoming would have made for a fairly strong "Eastern" conference.

[boobyhasgameyo]

Morrisville is also being led by their very talented QB.  Who knows what will happen once he is gone.  I classified them as rising because it seems like they might have something with their relatively new head coach in Fitzpatrick.  Time will tell what kind of athletes he is able to recruit, but so far he appears to be off to a good start.  Better than what Frostburg demonstrated during their E8 tenure at least. 

[wesleydad]

To me, the NJAC will have the best team (Wesley) but there's so much dead weight in that conference.

Kean and TCNJ are probably going to go 2-8. Southern Virginia will probably be 1-9, unless they win and knock WP down to 3-7. None of those teams beat anyone other than each other in conference all year.

I do think Morrisville is in for a shock though. Their wins this season:

2-7 Wick
1-7 Alfred State
4-5 Cortland
2-7 Kean
3-6 WP
1-8 S. Virginia
2-7 TCNJ
7-2 Montclair

They did beat Montclair of course, but they didn't play tough competition week in, week out. And they needed a borderline miracle to beat the Wick

Totally agree with this.  The bottom of the NJAC is not very good and right now I am not sure how good the top is.  Having seen all 3 teams competing for the title, none scares me as far as competing with the top of D3.  They all have a long way to go to catch Wesley and even as poor as Salisbury has played this year I think they would have a shot against all 3.  Still a great question.  I would take E8 overall.

[jmcozenlaw]

Last Updated - November 12, 2014

Regional Rankings

EAST         
1 Delaware Valley 9-0 9-0     
2 Hobart 9-0 9-0     
3 Widener 9-0 9-0     
4 Framingham State 8-1 8-1     
5 Ithaca 7-2 7-2     
6 St. John Fisher 6-2 7-2     
7 MIT 8-0 8-0     
8 St. Lawrence 7-2 7-2     
9 Rowan 6-3 6-3     
10 Husson 6-1 7-1

[Boxer7806]

Last Updated - November 12, 2014

Regional Rankings

EAST         
1 Delaware Valley 9-0 9-0     
2 Hobart 9-0 9-0     
3 Widener 9-0 9-0     
4 Framingham State 8-1 8-1     
5 Ithaca 7-2 7-2     
6 St. John Fisher 6-2 7-2     
7 MIT 8-0 8-0     
8 St. Lawrence 7-2 7-2     
9 Rowan 6-3 6-3     
10 Husson 6-1 7-1

Fisher is alive. They need some help from Del Val, but they are very much alive. More so than I thought they would be.

[Upstate]

We will never see the final regional rankings but...

Fisher has a .582 SOS but an 0-1 record vs RR teams...

Fisher first needs to win at Alfred, not a given, then they need Utica and Buff St to win to go to 7-3 and hopefully get SLU, Rowan and Husson to take a loss...

Hopefully that will be enough to get them ranked and give Fisher a 2-1 record vs RR teams...

THEN they need other two loss teams like Bethel, Platteville and St Thomas to go down...

Oh and your offense still sucks Ithaca...

Not bitter or anything...

[sjfcards]

We will never see the final regional rankings but...

Fisher has a .582 SOS but an 0-1 record vs RR teams...

Fisher first needs to win at Alfred, not a given, then they need Utica and Buff St to win to go to 7-3 and hopefully get SLU, Rowan and Husson to take a loss...

Hopefully that will be enough to get them ranked and give Fisher a 2-1 record vs RR teams...

THEN they need other two loss teams like Bethel, Platteville and St Thomas to go down...

Oh and your offense still sucks Ithaca...

Not bitter or anything...

So you're telling me there's a chance...

[Frank Rossi]

For SJF to have a sincere chance, the following would help:

1) Ithaca beats Cortland
2) Rowan beats TCNJ (to avoid potential jump by St. Lawrence if Morrisville is ranked)
3) Framingham and/or Texas Lutheran lose
4) Likely two Pool C upsets besides the above list (potentially just one, but that would be razor thin still)

[boobyhasgameyo]

If Nigolian is still hurt and our passing game was as off as last week, then Alfred will probably put a saucy end to any slim chance that Fisher has.  It's what they do to Fisher.


Also, I'm not as bitter about the Ithaca game.  It was frustrating to watch our offense perform so poorly, but at the same time it was fun to see the defenses battle it out.  Ithaca's performed admirably.  I'm bitter about the Salisbury game.  Stuuuuuupid 18 seconds left in the stupid game and they scored the game tying touchdown.  Toss in some questionable coaching and gutless play calling up to and into overtime...and you have yourself a recipe for frustration. 

[Bombers798891]

Oh and your offense still sucks Ithaca...

Not bitter or anything...

Number of passing touchdowns in the last four Ithaca/SJF games thrown by:

Ithaca wide receivers: 1
Fisher quarterbacks: 1

Can Fisher's gunslingers take the lead? Tune in to the next episode of "The Pot Calling the Kettle Black!"

[ExTartanPlayer]

So, when talking about the Bombers' season I got to thinking about the Frostburg State game, and wondered: Is this the biggest shocker in E8 history? A look at the candidates:

Frostburg 38, Ithaca 37 (2 OT), 2014

Why it might be: Frostburg, who averages 17 PPG, put up 38 and 343 yards on arguably the conference's best defense

Why it might not be: Ithaca, conference champ they may be, could end up a not-so-impressive 7-4

Norwich 39, St. John Fisher 34, 2004

Why it might be: Every other E8 team with a pulse that season took Norwich to the cleaners, Fisher went 10-2 that season with a close loss to 11-0 Delaware Valley in the 2nd round of the playoffs

Why it might not be: There are worse crimes than being torched by a future NFL player

Hartwick 31, St. John Fisher 28, 2007

Why it might be: 8-3 record aside, Hartwick finished the season with a +16 point differential. Fisher was +266, and that was AFTER they had to play Mount Union

Why it might not be: Hey, Jason Boltus was good

Salisbury 69, Alfred 0, 2011

Why it might be: How in the world does any top 25 team lose by 69 points at home to anyone other than one of the big 4?

Why it might not be: Salisbury did hang 60 points on four other teams that year

Fun topic.  Are we talking "in the moment" or "in retrospect" when answering?

(reason I mention that is some of those details, such as Garcon eventually becoming the most dynamic player in D3 and an NFL starter & Hartwick eventually making the 2007 playoffs, would not have been known at the time and only make the results more "explainable" in retrospect...if that makes sense)

In either case, the first one I'm crossing off is Frostburg-over-Ithaca this year.  It's been a loony year in the E8 from the get-go, Ithaca had just lost the week before to Buffalo State, and even some of IC's wins early in the season made it pretty clear this was not a juggernaut but a team that was going to have to scrap for it every week.  I don't think this was a total stunner, even with FSU likely to finish at the bottom of the league and IC at the top, as weird as that sounds.  Ironically enough, this is probably the result that would look weirdest "in retrospect" because it involves the league's eighth-best team beating the best team (clarification: this should probably say "first-place team" and "eighth-place team" because it's not totally clear who is really "best" this year with all of the X-beat-Y-beat-Z results), but somehow in the moment it didn't feel nearly as weird as the other ones.  For whatever reason, I wasn't really that shocked when I saw this final score, at least not like I was for some of the other games.

For in-the-moment-WTF-ness, I'm probably taking Hartwick-over-Fisher in 2007.  Wick had opened the season losing by four touchdowns to Western New England (a middle-of-the-pack NEFC team) and even the following week's win over Ithaca didn't totally legitimize them as a contender.  I was a senior in college who was just starting to follow the national D3 scene and I remember being totally flabbergasted when I saw this final score.  Never in a million years did I expect Hartwick to beat SJF (especially since that was the SJF team coming off a helluva game against Mount in the national semifinals the year before; Fisher was ranked #5 in the d3football.com poll the week before that game).

The Salisbury-Alfred score totally shocked me for MOV (actually, I wasn't shocked that they scored 69, but that they won by 69).  Still, it was their first year in the league and I don't think anyone totally knew what they were getting.  Somehow that one didn't surprise me as much as 2007 Wick-Fisher.

Nobody else chimed in and this was a fun conversation topic.  Let's try again.  Anyone besides me and Bombers?

[sjfcards]

Oh and your offense still sucks Ithaca...

Not bitter or anything...

Number of passing touchdowns in the last four Ithaca/SJF games thrown by:

Ithaca wide receivers: 1
Fisher quarterbacks: 1

Can Fisher's gunslingers take the lead? Tune in to the next episode of "The Pot Calling the Kettle Black!"

Fair enough...

[fisheralum91]

Wow- the board is quiet......
Interesting games to finish off the regular season and people have gone into hibernation mode!

Go Fisher!