FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

To add to that bombers, it seems that IC has gone through a few offensive coordinators, with Welch seeming to have his hands in the offense at all times.  Welch has always been a defensive coach, but IC has run much of the same stuff since 1995.  I think the offense might need a kick in the behind, but maybe they just don't have the personnel to do it?

Yes to both. I think Ithaca's a bit too basic, but look at their recent teams. The offensive lines in 2010 and 2011 were total disasters. They had very little talent at RB outside of Brown last year and Ardoin's very good year in 2012, and the QB play was decent (Neumman) to dreadful (Hendel). They improved at the QB position, and at RB last year, but there aren't athletes on the outside. Vito Boffoli had great hands and one of the best catches in school history, but he averaged less than 10 yards a reception for his career.

That said, while I fully admit that Ithaca's football staff knows more about everything football related than I do, there have been some strange personnel decisions. One day, someone will explain to me how Joel Lynch went from 41-530-6 as a junior to 12-115-0 as a senior. How have they never figured out a way to get Josh Oliver integrated into their offense at all (unless forced to by injuries)? Why did it seem like they never had Dempsey move the pocket or bootleg?

It's obvious, of course, that they don't have the talent in the box that they used to offensively. That's not a dig on the current staff, it's simply an inarguable fact. (Brian Angelichio coaches in the NFL for a reason.) It's also a reality that Ithaca's a much tougher place to coach football than it used to be—for all sorts of reasons

[sjfcards]

To add to that bombers, it seems that IC has gone through a few offensive coordinators, with Welch seeming to have his hands in the offense at all times.  Welch has always been a defensive coach, but IC has run much of the same stuff since 1995.  I think the offense might need a kick in the behind, but maybe they just don't have the personnel to do it?

Yes to both. I think Ithaca's a bit too basic, but look at their recent teams. The offensive lines in 2010 and 2011 were total disasters. They had very little talent at RB outside of Brown last year and Ardoin's very good year in 2012, and the QB play was decent (Neumman) to dreadful (Hendel). They improved at the QB position, and at RB last year, but there aren't athletes on the outside. Vito Boffoli had great hands and one of the best catches in school history, but he averaged less than 10 yards a reception for his career.

That said, while I fully admit that Ithaca's football staff knows more about everything football related than I do, there have been some strange personnel decisions. One day, someone will explain to me how Joel Lynch went from 41-530-6 as a junior to 12-115-0 as a senior. How have they never figured out a way to get Josh Oliver integrated into their offense at all (unless forced to by injuries)? Why did it seem like they never had Dempsey move the pocket or bootleg?

It's obvious, of course, that they don't have the talent in the box that they used to offensively. That's not a dig on the current staff, it's simply an inarguable fact. (Brian Angelichio coaches in the NFL for a reason.) It's also a reality that Ithaca's a much tougher place to coach football than it used to be—for all sorts of reasons

I would not argue that point, but the defense and special teams coaches have found ways to adjust. Those units have carried IC to back to back E8 AQ's, and that is not a fluke. Special teams at IC has always made an impact, and the defense the last two years has been very good in those wins over Fisher. The turnovers they create, that no other team has gotten, have literally taken away Fisher's chances at the AQ.

[sjfcards]

On an unrelated note, if anyone is interested, it appears Fisher will host a scrimmage this Friday night, 6:30pm at Growney. I am not sure who they are going to be playing, but that seems to be the date and time. 

[Bombers798891]

I would not argue that point, but the defense and special teams coaches have found ways to adjust. Those units have carried IC to back to back E8 AQ's, and that is not a fluke. Special teams at IC has always made an impact, and the defense the last two years has been very good in those wins over Fisher. The turnovers they create, that no other team has gotten, have literally taken away Fisher's chances at the AQ.

Some of that is coaching—Mark Raymond has St. Lawrence's program at a 40-year high and McDonough has worked with Team USA, and briefly took over for Welch three years ago during his health scare. I think the defense has the same issues getting a lot of impact guys (look at the all-conference list), but they're so well coached on that side of the ball, it makes up for a lot of it. I'm not denigrating players or the offensive coaches, but I firmly believe Mark McDonough is the single biggest reason Ithaca's won the conference these last few years. Ithaca doesn't have that on the offensive side.

I think it's probably 70-30 in terms of players vs. playcalling. They could probably get more from their offense, but they just don't have enough impact guys to make a huge change, and who knows what's causing that.

[D3MAFAN]

I would not argue that point, but the defense and special teams coaches have found ways to adjust. Those units have carried IC to back to back E8 AQ's, and that is not a fluke. Special teams at IC has always made an impact, and the defense the last two years has been very good in those wins over Fisher. The turnovers they create, that no other team has gotten, have literally taken away Fisher's chances at the AQ.

Some of that is coaching—Mark Raymond has St. Lawrence's program at a 40-year high and McDonough has worked with Team USA, and briefly took over for Welch three years ago during his health scare. I think the defense has the same issues getting a lot of impact guys (look at the all-conference list), but they're so well coached on that side of the ball, it makes up for a lot of it. I'm not denigrating players or the offensive coaches, but I firmly believe Mark McDonough is the single biggest reason Ithaca's won the conference these last few years. Ithaca doesn't have that on the offensive side.

I think it's probably 70-30 in terms of players vs. playcalling. They could probably get more from their offense, but they just don't have enough impact guys to make a huge change, and who knows what's causing that.

I agree with having enough impact guys to make a huge change. When coaches make changes, everyone has to be on board and you have to get the talent to fit that scheme. The coach for TCU mentioned it a few days ago on ESPN. He indicated that for them to get over the hump they had to be faster on the outside and make a scheme change to score. However, I have witness teams using the same ole offense, either running (Wing-T) or passing (Air Raid) and not utilize the talent that they have and just force the scheme on the player(s), which the respective teams season no going to well and losing many talented players due to them either transferring or just deciding not play anymore. Nevertheless, I feel that a balance approach (i.e UWW) and being able to adjust to the current talent (UMU, SJF & Wesley) is always the way to go. Pat and Keith did an analysis of teams that are the most successful and the result was that most of the successful teams were somewhat balance.

[Bombers798891]

However, I have witness teams using the same ole offense, either running (Wing-T) or passing (Air Raid) and not utilize the talent that they have and just force the scheme on the player(s), which the respective teams season no going to well and losing many talented players due to them either transferring or just deciding not play anymore. Nevertheless, I feel that a balance approach (i.e UWW) and being able to adjust to the current talent (UMU, SJF & Wesley) is always the way to go. Pat and Keith did an analysis of teams that are the most successful and the result was that most of the successful teams were somewhat balance.

True, but Columbia University wrote a report in 2012 about the future of Journalism and the media, and wrote: "Any sentence that begins, 'Let's take the New York Times as an example...' is liable to explain or describe little about the rest of the landscape."

What the elite of the elite are able to do in D-III football is largely irrelevant to what most teams can/should do.

[dlippiel]

Union and Hartwick will scrimmage this Friday at 5pm in Schenectady.

[AUPepBand]

However, I have witness teams using the same ole offense, either running (Wing-T) or passing (Air Raid) and not utilize the talent that they have and just force the scheme on the player(s), which the respective teams season no going to well and losing many talented players due to them either transferring or just deciding not play anymore. Nevertheless, I feel that a balance approach (i.e UWW) and being able to adjust to the current talent (UMU, SJF & Wesley) is always the way to go. Pat and Keith did an analysis of teams that are the most successful and the result was that most of the successful teams were somewhat balance.

True, but Columbia University wrote a report in 2012 about the future of Journalism and the media, and wrote: "Any sentence that begins, 'Let's take the New York Times as an example...' is liable to explain or describe little about the rest of the landscape."

What the elite of the elite are able to do in D-III football is largely irrelevant to what most teams can/should do.

True, if you want a more accurate glimpse of what's happening to journalism and the media, you're better off taking a look at the Mayberry Gazette, or the Clinton Courier, which just announced that in a few weeks it is ceasing print production and going to an e-newspaper e-mailed to subscribers. Pep suggests a "newspaper" that's out of sight is also out of mind and is convinced, at least for now, that Mayberry Gazette readers prefer to see it in print.

As for offensive schemes...ol' Alex Yunevich didn't use a playbook. He kept it simple. The plays were learned on the field. When he had talent in the skill positions, those simple plays could be expanded upon and/or altered with good success. It all happened on the practice field.

Yunie, known as a defensive genius, suggested there were three different ways for an offense to attack....power, speed and deception. A good coach will either recruit the players necessary to run his offensive scheme (Springfield and Salisbury) or, if recruiting isn't so productive (Yunie once apologized for over spending his $25 recruiting budget and claimed it was because of the increased cost of postage stamps) , can alter his scheme to match the team's strengths and/or weaknesses.

On Saxon Warriors!

[pg04]

*Stumbles in, rubs eyes*

I'm ready for some football! Hello Empire 8ers

[Bombers798891]

Ultimately, here's the conclusion I've come to recently: It's D-III football and since Ithaca's not one of the half-dozen teams that are going to be in contention, it's necessary to re-evaluate things. I don't know enough to know if Mike Welch is getting the players he's getting because of issues he and his staff are having as a result of institutional issues, or if the issues are their own doing. I can fathom guesses and don't mind engaging in conjecture, but I don't really want to get to the point where I'm super worried about it. They have the players they have, for better or worse

From an Ithaca perspective, I just want to enjoy football for 10/11 weeks this year. I'd like them to play interesting teams (Hi Hobart!), win Cortaca again before I die (Please), make the Fisher posters go nuts (Hey look, another turnover!) have guys who are enjoyable to watch, and stay out of off the field drama.

Now, if D-III football ever gets back to the point where there's actual drama surrounding more than 6 teams having a stagg bowl shot, that will change. Right now, I'm more interested in looking at how things work at the D-III level, not the IC level—what can be done about the Pool A situation, how we can have parity, etc.

[pg04]

I have definitely been turned off by the domination as well. But that turn off only occurs with me during the final two weeks of the playoffs. I still enjoy watching what happens during the season. All 246 teams give their all and it's fun to see how the conference races turn out, especially now in the Empire 8, where the conference is strong and you never know if perhaps one of the middle of the road teams will become a surprise champion. And then, to see how far the champ can go and if they challenge one of the powers, how well do they stack up?

As the crew describes in kickoff, which you should all purchase, the E8 will be something akin to a demolition derby.

[Bombers798891]

I have definitely been turned off by the domination as well. But that turn off only occurs with me during the final two weeks of the playoffs. I still enjoy watching what happens during the season. All 246 teams give their all and it's fun to see how the conference races turn out, especially now in the Empire 8, where the conference is strong and you never know if perhaps one of the middle of the road teams will become a surprise champion. And then, to see how far the champ can go and if they challenge one of the powers, how well do they stack up?

As the crew describes in kickoff, which you should all purchase, the E8 will be something akin to a demolition derby.

I'd love to see some team emerge from the E8 this year. Yeah, I know, we've got parity. We've also got teams that simply can't get through the season without laying an egg.

[sjfcards]

I have definitely been turned off by the domination as well. But that turn off only occurs with me during the final two weeks of the playoffs. I still enjoy watching what happens during the season. All 246 teams give their all and it's fun to see how the conference races turn out, especially now in the Empire 8, where the conference is strong and you never know if perhaps one of the middle of the road teams will become a surprise champion. And then, to see how far the champ can go and if they challenge one of the powers, how well do they stack up?

As the crew describes in kickoff, which you should all purchase, the E8 will be something akin to a demolition derby.

I'd love to see some team emerge from the E8 this year. Yeah, I know, we've got parity. We've also got teams that simply can't get through the season without laying an egg.

Hello Fisher! No disrespect to IC, because the last two years were not flukes, but Fisher IMHO was the best team in the league both years and lost to a lesser IC team. IC earned the wins but Fisher turned the ball over so often in the last two meetings (which we both tight games) it is hard to stomach as a Fisher fan. Even with that, the loss to Salisbury last year was the real kick in the side. Fisher has a really bad habit of losing that one game, we all look back on and say 'man, if they could have just held it together that week'. I feel like in two of the recent years Fisher had the talent to earn a top 3 seed, and missed the playoffs entirely. I feel like Fisher can be the team to make a run again this year, but I feel this way every year I guess.

Again, no offense to IC, but with how good the E8 is, sending a 3 loss team to the playoffs is not the best representation of how good the league is.

[Bombers798891]

Again, no offense to IC, but with how good the E8 is, sending a 3 loss team to the playoffs is not the best representation of how good the league is.
[/quote]

Yeah, IC beating Fisher was probably a fluke, although we could get all twisted and argue that IC should have beaten Frostburg and Cortland, so they were truly only a one-loss team, which then makes Fisher losing to them not as big a deal...and in circles we'd go.

Generally, I think we (myself included) make too many excuses for E8 teams, maybe because we're worried it'll come across like an insult to another team if we say "Yeah, Ithaca shouldn't be losing to Frostburg" or maybe because we don't want to think about what it means that our best team loses two or three games in the regular season every year (it seems.)

"Well, Fisher won't face the triple option in the playoffs so...well, the triple option never works at Butterfield, so...well, Cortland is a rivalry game, so..."

Get your stuff together, E8...

[AUPepBand]

I have definitely been turned off by the domination as well. But that turn off only occurs with me during the final two weeks of the playoffs. I still enjoy watching what happens during the season. All 246 teams give their all and it's fun to see how the conference races turn out, especially now in the Empire 8, where the conference is strong and you never know if perhaps one of the middle of the road teams will become a surprise champion. And then, to see how far the champ can go and if they challenge one of the powers, how well do they stack up?

As the crew describes in kickoff, which you should all purchase, the E8 will be something akin to a demolition derby.

Pep loves demolition derbies. Have never driven in a demolition derby (although Pep certainly drives cars worthy of such honor), but the Cedar Point bumper cars are called "Dodge 'Em". When driving in said bumper cars, Pep aims to be the one car that no one hits. The Saxons accomplished that feat back in 2010...avoided being hit in conference games, although they somehow managed to drop non-leaguers to RPI and UR.

It will take extreme defensive driving skills to avoid being hit in the Empire 8 in 2015. Too many of the nine teams have viable weapons. Much will be determined by injuries, team depth, coaching wisdom...but Pep still believes the Empire 8 is Fisher's to lose.

You know it's almost football season when pg04 is on the boards! Glad to have you on board in a meaningful way! +K

Stay tuned....