FB: Empire 8

[D3MAFAN]

The E8 will become overrated to me when their OOC record is crap.  Not going to penalize teams for losing to each other in conference if they've demonstrated the propensity to win when taking on those outside of it. 

Will agree that the E8 is down this year compared to the recent past.  Especially so in Fisher's case.  But if the E8 is overrated, then which conferences are the ones who are by definition underrated in comparison and what is the case for their conference to be above ours? 

Asking that sincerely and not combatively.

I view conference strength as not something that's evenly distributed—to me, I think an elite conference is strong because of its best teams, not its worst. So when your best team (Cortland) needs overtime to beat your worst team (Hartwick) at home that's a knock on the conference, not a positive. You might view it completely the other way around, which is fine. Takes different strokes, as they say.

It's also important to remember, I don't think the E8 is bad or even mediocre. Just not elite. 2007? That was elite. Heck, even 2013, Fisher goes to the elite 8, Ithaca goes to the 2nd round and makes a respectable effort against Wesley. Dial me up for elite. But 1 team in the top 25, by the skin of its teeth? Nope, not my definition of elite.

When I look at the E8 right now, here's what I see:

A conference that did not win a playoff game last season, is a one-bid conference this year and who I think will to go one and done. A conference whose best team is currently ranked #20 because they hit a Hail Mary to beat the 6th-place team in the OAC by two at home.

So to answer your question, the CCIW has teams at #8, #15, and #19 in the current D3 poll. That would make them clearly stronger, IMO. I'd probably listen on the MAC and NJAC too—though I'd need to do a bit more research, but my initial reaction is to put them ahead too, based on their better teams being better.

So the E8 would be maybe 6th IMO. Still very good, but not where they are now.

Yea I agree that without the top teams, you wouldn't call the E8 an "elite" conference.  I'd compare it to the years where the PAC-10 doesn't have a top 5 or 10 team, but ends up doing well in the bowl games and except for one team (usually Washington and/or Oregon State), the entire conference can beat each other.  The SEC is elite because they always have a #1 or #2 team, and sometimes has 2 or 3 teams in the top 5 or 6.  That is elite, regardless of how the rest of the conference does in the bowl games or against non conference teams.

That being said, Alabama may struggle with the SEC bottom team this year, but still win a national championship.  That doesn't happen in d3, but is similar to what happens in the E8, with Cortland struggling with Hartwick.

That is all fabricated by ESECPN, we all saw what happen when you actually have to play in the playoffs.

[Bombers798891]

That being said, Alabama may struggle with the SEC bottom team this year, but still win a national championship.  That doesn't happen in d3, but is similar to what happens in the E8, with Cortland struggling with Hartwick.

Right, that's probably the difference. And I'll even go so far as to say I don't need the best team to win a title, or even contend for one—because this is D3, and there's only like, four teams that seem to be able to do that. But your best team has got to be a threat to make a serious deep run, to start. And the E8 clearly lacks that right now, and lacked that in 2014 as well. That's where I'm coming from.

[Bombers798891]

That is all fabricated by ESECPN, we all saw what happen when you actually have to play in the playoffs.

No, we saw one (close) game between two schools. Alabama losing to Ohio State does not mean they weren't a title contender.

[Jonny Utah]

And just so I am clear in my own mind, Ithaca's chances to make the playoffs are slim, but not impossible.

Ithaca has to win out (beating SJF, Buff State, and Cortland)
Cortland has to lose to Mooville.
Mooville has to lose to Brockport.
Brockport has to lose to Buff State or Alfred
Utica has to lose to Alfred.

I assume IC gets the tiebreaker in a 3 or 4 way tie (with Buff St, Cortland, Alfred and SJF) if they all have 3 losses and IC has beaten all of them?

[AUPepBand]

And just so I am clear in my own mind, Ithaca's chances to make the playoffs are slim, but not impossible.

Ithaca has to win out (beating SJF, Buff State, and Cortland)
Cortland has to lose to Mooville.
Mooville has to lose to Brockport.
Brockport has to lose to Buff State or Alfred
Utica has to lose to Alfred.

I assume IC gets the tiebreaker in a 3 or 4 way tie (with Buff St, Cortland, Alfred and SJF) if they all have 3 losses and IC has beaten all of them?

This makes perfect sense to Pep. Likewise, the Saxons can also get the AQ if:

Alfred wins out (beating Brockport, Utica, St. John Fisher)
Cortland loses to Moo'ville and Ithaca

(of course that's a big if)

[Jonny Utah]

And just so I am clear in my own mind, Ithaca's chances to make the playoffs are slim, but not impossible.

Ithaca has to win out (beating SJF, Buff State, and Cortland)
Cortland has to lose to Mooville.
Mooville has to lose to Brockport.
Brockport has to lose to Buff State or Alfred
Utica has to lose to Alfred.

I assume IC gets the tiebreaker in a 3 or 4 way tie (with Buff St, Cortland, Alfred and SJF) if they all have 3 losses and IC has beaten all of them?

This makes perfect sense to Pep. Likewise, the Saxons can also get the AQ if:

Alfred wins out (beating Brockport, Utica, St. John Fisher)
Cortland loses to Moo'ville and Ithaca

(of course that's a big if)

I'd say Alfred has a better chance than IC of making the playoffs though, but winning 3 games is probably the toughest part of it all. 

[Bombers798891]

And just so I am clear in my own mind, Ithaca's chances to make the playoffs are slim, but not impossible.

Ithaca has to win out (beating SJF, Buff State, and Cortland)
Cortland has to lose to Mooville.
Mooville has to lose to Brockport.
Brockport has to lose to Buff State or Alfred
Utica has to lose to Alfred.

It's all falling into place.

[Bombers798891]

So here's my question:

What's the best possible outcome for the E8 regarding the Pool A? What team gives them the best chance to win a game in the playoffs?

Cortland's got the high powered offense. Brockport has probably the best player. I kinda think Buff State might be playing the best right now. I might lean towards the Bengals, but I'm curious as to others' thoughts

[wally_wabash]

So here's my question:

What's the best possible outcome for the E8 regarding the Pool A? What team gives them the best chance to win a game in the playoffs?

Cortland's got the high powered offense. Brockport has probably the best player. I kinda think Buff State might be playing the best right now. I might lean towards the Bengals, but I'm curious as to others' thoughts

From a possible/probable matchup standpoint, I'd say Cortland getting to 9-1 is a best case scenario.  They probably get a really favorable draw and probably a home game.  Any multi-loss team that wins the E8 AQ brings in all kinds of nasty possibilities, probably on the road. 

[AUPepBand]

So here's my question:

What's the best possible outcome for the E8 regarding the Pool A? What team gives them the best chance to win a game in the playoffs?

Cortland's got the high powered offense. Brockport has probably the best player. I kinda think Buff State might be playing the best right now. I might lean towards the Bengals, but I'm curious as to others' thoughts

Another way of posing this question is, "Which E8 team would your team NOT want to be facing right now?"

As Pep has already said, there have been so many collisions along the way, each team has sustained its own peculiar damage. There are fenders dragging, radiators hissing, and lots of black smoke everywhere.

But to answer the question, Pep would suggest the "cars" line up in the following order:

• Cortland State's offense (engine) is still running and its defense (rear end) is still intact and was able to handle Brockport's bumping and battering. The Red Dragons may be the last car running but there's no telling whether they will survive the trip to Morrisville and Ithaca.
• Buffalo State's engine is revved and the body has adjusted well to missing a front fender, while the rear end appears solid. Looks like it could sustain most anything Hartwick, Ithaca and Brockport can hit them with. One choke each by Cortland and Alfred and the Bengals are poised to be the last car running.
• St. John Fisher's radiator took a couple of hard shots early and was hissing, but some stop leak has kicked in and the engine seems to be running better than ever. While the rear end is an ugly sight, it still is taking the constant battering and still moving. But there's no room for sputtering down the stretch.
• Alfred's radiator thus far is intact, the engine randomly sputters, rear end is intact although it doesn't look much like it did when the derby began. Not sure it can hold up to collisions with Brockport, Utica and Fisher.
• Brockport has taken some blows, its hood being knocked off wide right in a collision with Fisher and the doors kicked in by Utica. Yet the engine is purring and running well. But the Eagles can't afford one more blow, with Alfred, Morrisville and Buffalo State ready to take shots.
• Ithaca's engine is sputtering and the rear end sustained considerable damage. Don't know how much longer the Bomber can continue to compete.
• Morrisville State, after having doors ripped off early, now may be the most dangerous vehicle still in the derby, being driven with reckless abandon, with nothing to lose. The engine is running well although the car body is indistinguishable.
• Utica issued some damaging hits to a couple of cars early in the derby but considerable damage and a leaky radiator has the Moose reeling. The car is avoiding collision at present, hoping some stop leak will keep it running before further encounters.
• Hartwick stalled early in the derby and sits on the sideline, an obstacle for the other cars still moving.

The last car running, Pep believes, will not have enough to go any deeper than winning a first round game. 

[boobyhasgameyo]

Usually I'm all about wanting to see Fisher in the playoffs.  Not even remotely sold on them this year, even after the last 3 weeks.  Nice that they are improving but they were just so bad at the beginning of the year.  If they played against a top tier team it would probably get Thomas More ugly again.  Pass on that. 

Of the teams I've seen so far this year I would also say Buffalo State.  Wasn't overly impressed with Cortland.  Saw Fisher losing that game more as a product of their own ineptitude more so than Cortland being fantastic.  Buffalo State just kind of dominated Fisher. 

Have yet to see Alfred or Ithaca but that's coming soon. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

So here's my question:

What's the best possible outcome for the E8 regarding the Pool A? What team gives them the best chance to win a game in the playoffs?

Cortland's got the high powered offense. Brockport has probably the best player. I kinda think Buff State might be playing the best right now. I might lean towards the Bengals, but I'm curious as to others' thoughts

From a possible/probable matchup standpoint, I'd say Cortland getting to 9-1 is a best case scenario.  They probably get a really favorable draw and probably a home game.  Any multi-loss team that wins the E8 AQ brings in all kinds of nasty possibilities, probably on the road.

This is key.  Not just about which team is actually playing the best, but whose resume can get them a winnable round 1 game.  There's definitely some luck and bracketology involved with respect to who gets to fly vs. who can drive and all that, but wally is right; Cortland is your best shot of winning a game simply because they could finish 9-1, which might mean hosting a winnable game.  Any 8-2 team probably goes on the road and faces a tough out (although SJF has done it before).

[wally_wabash]

So here's my question:

What's the best possible outcome for the E8 regarding the Pool A? What team gives them the best chance to win a game in the playoffs?

Cortland's got the high powered offense. Brockport has probably the best player. I kinda think Buff State might be playing the best right now. I might lean towards the Bengals, but I'm curious as to others' thoughts

From a possible/probable matchup standpoint, I'd say Cortland getting to 9-1 is a best case scenario.  They probably get a really favorable draw and probably a home game.  Any multi-loss team that wins the E8 AQ brings in all kinds of nasty possibilities, probably on the road.

This is key.  Not just about which team is actually playing the best, but whose resume can get them a winnable round 1 game.  There's definitely some luck and bracketology involved with respect to who gets to fly vs. who can drive and all that, but wally is right; Cortland is your best shot of winning a game simply because they could finish 9-1, which might mean hosting a winnable game.  Any 8-2 team probably goes on the road and faces a tough out (although SJF has done it before).

It's entirely possible that 9-1 Cortland State could catch a brutal draw at home against Salisbury or something crazy like that whereas a multi loss team could wind up playing at Western New England.  Those things are also possible.  Buffalo State could also draw Wesley or Mount Union which absolutely wouldn't happen with 9-1 Cortland State. 

[Bombers798891]

This is key.  Not just about which team is actually playing the best, but whose resume can get them a winnable round 1 game.  There's definitely some luck and bracketology involved with respect to who gets to fly vs. who can drive and all that, but wally is right; Cortland is your best shot of winning a game simply because they could finish 9-1, which might mean hosting a winnable game.  Any 8-2 team probably goes on the road and faces a tough out (although SJF has done it before).

It's so iffy with that given the geography here though. An 8-2/7-3 Ithaca got an NEFC team and the LL winner, for example. We all thought Ithaca was destined for Mount last year, and somehow that didn't work out.

I'm generally going to disagree with you though. I'd rather have a slightly better team with a slightly tougher matchup. We all saw what happened, not just with Fisher, but when a Hartwick team we all knew was lousy got in (I'm aware that Curry beat an IC team we all thought was good the next year)

You don't always need to win a game to make a statement. Ithaca in 2007 went from 26 to 140 points in the poll when they lost to Mount Union in the first round, simply because everyone just assumed that Ithaca would be like every team from the OAC against Mount's "OMG SO AMAZING 100%" first-string defense, and the fact that they managed to cobble together three touchdowns and not get completely eaten alive blew their minds.

I'm not saying 2015 Buff State is 2007 Ithaca, or that 2015 Cortland wouldn't be. I'm just saying, I think there are times where it shouldn't be as simple as "who's likely to get a win?" Especially when we're probably talking about a win, not multiple.

Sure, if Buff State gets thrown to the purple Wolves (or non-purple Wolverines!), things could get ugly. But I don't think the math is always as simple as win > no win—when we're talking about the gray shades of perception, at least

[Bengalsrule]

So here's my question:

What's the best possible outcome for the E8 regarding the Pool A? What team gives them the best chance to win a game in the playoffs?

Cortland's got the high powered offense. Brockport has probably the best player. I kinda think Buff State might be playing the best right now. I might lean towards the Bengals, but I'm curious as to others' thoughts

I like this Bombers guy. My "thoughts" You are right on!!

Usually I'm all about wanting to see Fisher in the playoffs.  Not even remotely sold on them this year, even after the last 3 weeks.  Nice that they are improving but they were just so bad at the beginning of the year.  If they played against a top tier team it would probably get Thomas More ugly again.  Pass on that. 

Of the teams I've seen so far this year I would also say Buffalo State.  Wasn't overly impressed with Cortland.  Saw Fisher losing that game more as a product of their own ineptitude more so than Cortland being fantastic.  Buffalo State just kind of dominated Fisher. 

Have yet to see Alfred or Ithaca but that's coming soon. 

Did I also mention that boobyhasgameyo is a pretty good judge of football talent?

Hartwick does worry me! However after running into some of the boys last night, as they were going to the practice field, the team definitely looks like they are focused and not looking past Hartwick towards Ithaca!  November 14th ( the 1st day of "official" D3 basketball season) and the last weekend of E8 games,  cant get here fast enough!

Go BENGALS