FB: Empire 8

[pg04]

I should have attributed my source. D3football.com's Dave McHugh reported on Twitter that it was official, according to his source.

I trust that he's right, so I'm sure there will be an official release in the next few days.

[Bombers798891]

Well Ithaca is bailing on the E8  . Heading to the LL after 2016-2017. Can't say I'm shocked but I am pretty disappointed overall.

Is this for sure? You're right, not too shocking but big news nonetheless.

Heard from Springfield: "Just in time!"

This is not surprising. Ithaca's coaches (in many sports) have said that competing directly against state schools—and other non-peer schools—is incredibly challenging. I can't imagine the football coaches love having four state schools in their conference, as well as schools like Utica, that, let's be honest, have little in common with Ithaca as an institution.

The move works. The Cortaca rivalry will of course stay, though it is disappointing that we may never see a winner-take-all Cortaca. I hope they continue to play Fisher as well.

This puts the LL at 6 teams starting in 2017. They still need another team to join to retain the AQ right?

[ITH radio]

Correct. As we stated in season finale there were two schools in play. We knew re IC and the other is from PA. Surprised it's taking this long to announce but schools do move at a slower pace than most.

LL is definitely getting a more "western" feel with these changes.

[pg04]

Meh, Back to the elitism. Of course I will always have that ax to grind.

[Pat Coleman]

As we said six weeks ago, it's a slow-motion race to seven teams. The CCC got there and now the LL is beginning to catch up.
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2015/11/the-race-to-seven

[jknezek]

Die Pool C bids, die!!!!!

[Jonny Utah]

Well Ithaca is bailing on the E8  . Heading to the LL after 2016-2017. Can't say I'm shocked but I am pretty disappointed overall.

Is this for sure? You're right, not too shocking but big news nonetheless.

Heard from Springfield: "Just in time!"

This is not surprising. Ithaca's coaches (in many sports) have said that competing directly against state schools—and other non-peer schools—is incredibly challenging. I can't imagine the football coaches love having four state schools in their conference, as well as schools like Utica, that, let's be honest, have little in common with Ithaca as an institution.

The move works. The Cortaca rivalry will of course stay, though it is disappointing that we may never see a winner-take-all Cortaca. I hope they continue to play Fisher as well.

This puts the LL at 6 teams starting in 2017. They still need another team to join to retain the AQ right?

bombers I have heard a lot of it has to do with financial aid and the decline of phys ed. majors at the college as well.  I for one can't imagine having to face paying 55K a year for one of my children to attend Ithaca, when they can go to Cortland for 20K.  I assume many if not most of Union's problems also have to do with financial aid.  Back in the 1980s and 1990s the financial aid office could be negotiated with.  They pretty much gave everyone half off tuition before you could even ask for more.  I think now schools are hurting more financially and it is showing up with tuition payments and financial aid.

I mean 55K?  Ithaca just isn't that good of a school, unless you are getting some sort of specialty hands on/work internship type education in the Communications School.  Maybe teaching is another area where a private school gets you forward because sometimes school departments can be snobby in the Boston area in terms of who they hire.  They won't even interview MA state school grads (Umass Amherst excluded) over someone who went to a private school and or has a masters from a top school.  Then again, I've seen plenty of student teachers stay on from some public schools in MA, but it is getting rare these days.

I think you are better off going cheap on the undergrad end (4 years), and pay high at the graduate end (2 years).  You still have to take a GRE/LSAT type test at the end anyway.  I'm not sure how much better you are going to do if you go to Ithaca or Cortland except being 140K poorer.

[Jonny Utah]

Also the NCAA has added pool B teams before, maybe they will again if leagues can't straighten themselves out?

[Bombers798891]

bombers I have heard a lot of it has to do with financial aid and the decline of phys ed. majors at the college as well.  I for one can't imagine having to face paying 55K a year for one of my children to attend Ithaca, when they can go to Cortland for 20K. 

This is exactly what coaches are saying (in so many words). You're competing on the field against schools that are able to, increasingly, recruit a whole section of the population you have no hope of getting.

I don't think it's elitism, (Though there has been a fair share of that over the years) I think it's the reality of college admissions. Certain schools can accept types of students other schools can't. That's not good or bad, in and of itself. It's just the reality. One of my former coaches has a daughter who runs XC/Track. And she was drawing heavy interest from IC. I saw him at a basketball game a few years ago, and asked him if she was going to go to Ithaca. And his response? "Well, can you get me a job there?" I mean, it's just a financial reality for a lot of families.

This is less of a problem in smaller (size) sports. IC's wrestling coach told me once that you can always find a few kids whose parents want them to attend that expensive private school for whatever reason. But wrestling can be top 10 with 4 or 5 elite guys. Football is going to struggle, because you just need more kids.

[pg04]

Of course, Bombers, you are right. I understand the struggle that the higher admissions standards/cost causes teams trying to compete.

My disappointment is at losing an opponent that is many times good and is certainly close in location off the schedule. But then I look at the east region as a whole, and I don't want the LL to lose its bid. Hopefully they'll get that other team.

[D3MAFAN]

Do you think the other private schools leaves for the LL, leaving the State Schools in the E8, while adding Alfred State for a total of 5. Then maybe the E 8 would join up with a New England conference or NJAC and play that championship game at the end of the year similar to that of the MWC? Thoughts?

[Bombers798891]

Of course, Bombers, you are right. I understand the struggle that the higher admissions standards/cost causes teams trying to compete.

My disappointment is at losing an opponent that is many times good and is certainly close in location off the schedule. But then I look at the east region as a whole, and I don't want the LL to lose its bid. Hopefully they'll get that other team.

Well, let's not forget we don't know how the schedule will shake out. If the conference gets to seven, that leaves three blank spots on IC's schedule. I'm not sure Brockport would make the cut, (I'd guess keeping Fisher and Alfred would be a higher priority, and they might add a PA school back into the mix) but it's not out of realm of possibility.

[wally_wabash]

Also the NCAA has added pool B teams before, maybe they will again if leagues can't straighten themselves out?

The number of Pool Bs can change every year as teams come and go and conferences get into or off of the transitional non-qualifying period.   The ASC will be getting their qualifying status back shortly.  The SCAC's four teams have affiliated with qualifying conferences.  I don't know if the CCC is going to have to go through a two-year wait period or not.  But once that happens, you're left with the LL's six teams plus Finlandia, Maranatha, and Alfred State as Pool B teams.  9 might be enough to keep a bid around.  I'd have to do the math. 

I would guess that the LL finds a seventh team before they lose their qualifying status though. 

[Bombers798891]

Do you think the other private schools leaves for the LL, leaving the State Schools in the E8, while adding Alfred State for a total of 5. Then maybe the E 8 would join up with a New England conference or NJAC and play that championship game at the end of the year similar to that of the MWC? Thoughts?

Frankly, the rest of the E8 is in a good spot in that it doesn't have to do anything, even if another team leaves.

The other thing is, and there's no way I can say this honestly without it sounding elitist, is that not all of these private E8 schools are the same. Utica just slashed tuition by 43 percent, down to $20,000 a year. I would suspect that Union, Ithaca, and Hobart et al would consider them a lot closer to the SUNY schools than them

[Bartman]

Glad to welcome Ithaca into the LL, it makes sense for IC and the league. Looking forward to  starting a solid rivalry game for Ithaca-Hobart where the games will count for LL championship. Also looking forward to the tv half time shows  .One more LL team to go and, hey, E8 had too many teams anyway for AQ....