FB: Empire 8

[sjfcards]

Also, the new top 25 is out, with Fisher and Cortland basically switching spots. Fisher is up to 16 and Cortland falls to 23. AU  is receiving votes. Other teams of note are Hobart (22), RPI and St. Lawrence (receiving votes).

You stole my thunder here cards

I feel shame

[Bartman]

Congrats to Fisher for a well fought win against Cortland, and the recognition in the poll this week. I hope the top E8 and LL  teams see each other in the playoffs at the end of the season.

[Jonny Utah]

Ithaca's offense has now scored 51 points in its past 7 games. A perfect summation of their issues would be these back to back drives last night:

14 plays, 49 yards
13 plays, 41 yards

I have to start agreeing with Utah on this. How in the world can you have lengthy drives averaging three yards a play? And the second drive took 7:30! Just a total slog. On some level, this is (for now) a temporary problem. There's going to be a new HC next season, and even if they hire internally, there's no conceivable way the OC comes back. But it's disappointing

Ithaca has zero playmakers on offense.  Zero.  The Wolfman is above average in terms of talent, but he makes horrible decisions in clutch situations.  The WRs are non existent this year, the RBs are average, and the line is average.  The defensive backs are small, and the dline doesn't have a stud pass rusher with height.  The linebackers are good, maybe even great, but that isn't going to be enough to stop the teams you need to stop to win games.   

I'm not sure there is an OC who could lead the talent IC has to any higher level, but it doesn't appear that they are trying that hard at it either.

[AUPepBand]

Ithaca's offense has now scored 51 points in its past 7 games. A perfect summation of their issues would be these back to back drives last night:

14 plays, 49 yards
13 plays, 41 yards

I have to start agreeing with Utah on this. How in the world can you have lengthy drives averaging three yards a play? And the second drive took 7:30! Just a total slog. On some level, this is (for now) a temporary problem. There's going to be a new HC next season, and even if they hire internally, there's no conceivable way the OC comes back. But it's disappointing

Ithaca has zero playmakers on offense.  Zero.  The Wolfman is above average in terms of talent, but he makes horrible decisions in clutch situations.  The WRs are non existent this year, the RBs are average, and the line is average.  The defensive backs are small, and the dline doesn't have a stud pass rusher with height.  The linebackers are good, maybe even great, but that isn't going to be enough to stop the teams you need to stop to win games.   

I'm not sure there is an OC who could lead the talent IC has to any higher level, but it doesn't appear that they are trying that hard at it either.

In years past, it seemed to Pep that IC always got a lot of football players from New England. With more and more colleges fielding football teams in said region, are the Bombers not pulling in the top New England talent as they once did? Haven't looked at the roster yet, so just blindly posing the question regarding recruiting.

[fisheralum91]

Hopping on after a whirlwind weekend-
That Fisher game was all that I expected
I saw a Fisher offense that was really good, and a d that had a bend dont break way about them.
Mid relief I have been watching Fisher football since it was a club team, and I have been through all the amazing ups and all the horrible downs - why you seem to think that this team as a sham is beyond me.
If you want to gripe- take a trip back to when FA91 was graduating - Fisher in 1991 was BAD.
There is no good thing to take away from being a doormat....But then again look where we are now!
Buck up buttercup!

[Jonny Utah]

Ithaca's offense has now scored 51 points in its past 7 games. A perfect summation of their issues would be these back to back drives last night:

14 plays, 49 yards
13 plays, 41 yards

I have to start agreeing with Utah on this. How in the world can you have lengthy drives averaging three yards a play? And the second drive took 7:30! Just a total slog. On some level, this is (for now) a temporary problem. There's going to be a new HC next season, and even if they hire internally, there's no conceivable way the OC comes back. But it's disappointing

Ithaca has zero playmakers on offense.  Zero.  The Wolfman is above average in terms of talent, but he makes horrible decisions in clutch situations.  The WRs are non existent this year, the RBs are average, and the line is average.  The defensive backs are small, and the dline doesn't have a stud pass rusher with height.  The linebackers are good, maybe even great, but that isn't going to be enough to stop the teams you need to stop to win games.   

I'm not sure there is an OC who could lead the talent IC has to any higher level, but it doesn't appear that they are trying that hard at it either.

In years past, it seemed to Pep that IC always got a lot of football players from New England. With more and more colleges fielding football teams in said region, are the Bombers not pulling in the top New England talent as they once did? Haven't looked at the roster yet, so just blindly posing the question regarding recruiting.

You are correct Pep.  Jim Butterfield was from Massachusetts, played in college at Maine, and he personally knew many prep school coaches from around New England, and those are places where you get good football players from, and that is still true today.  Ithaca has a 2nd year WR coach named Tom Coughlin who is in charge of New England recruiting and he is very active around the area and is great with social media and has done a solid job in my opinion. 

And although more NE schools playing football surely takes away talent (from many regional NY schools who can draw from New England), I think admissions/financial aid is the real issue.  Ithaca is in the same boat as other private NY schools, and they need to get recruits from several areas.

I would rank recruiting importance for Ithaca as follows:

1. Upstate NY small town hidden gems.   A good chunk of Ithaca college students in the general population come from these little towns in upstate New York, especially the finger lakes region.  This isn't a football hotbed to be sure, but Hobart, Ithaca, Alfred have the advantage here.  Watkins Glen, Ovid, Moravia, Naticoke, Whitney Point, Dansville, Sidney, Vestal, Auburn, Lima, Home, Owego, Horseheads, Corning, the list of great American towns go on and on here.  There is talent in these towns, and many former Ithaca coaches and parents live and work in these towns.  As an Ithaca coach, you need to pay the most attention to these kids.  They can come to IC games on Saturday after their own games, they are close enough where IC coaches can establish relationships with coaches and kids through camps and coaching clinics.

2.  Syracuse, Binghamton, Rochester, Buffalo and Albany.  These are larger cities close enough to Ithaca where parents can drive their kids to school in under 2 hours.  Kids and parents like this because they aren't too far from home.  There is also some good football here, including the suburbs.

3.  Long Island, NJ, Orange/Westchester County, NYC.  Another area with good football and some money.  High population with a good chance of kids coming to your school if you show them how important they are.  These kids also have a whole lot of other options though, so you need to really hit them hard.

4.  MA, CT, and PA.  3 states further away with talent and money.  Especially the prep schools and ISL schools where kids are looking to play football in college.

5.  Random places in the US with kids looking for specialized programs that Ithaca may have.  Florida, California, Ohio, Michigan, Texas.

[sjfcards]

Hopping on after a whirlwind weekend-
That Fisher game was all that I expected
I saw a Fisher offense that was really good, and a d that had a bend dont break way about them.
Mid relief I have been watching Fisher football since it was a club team, and I have been through all the amazing ups and all the horrible downs - why you seem to think that this team as a sham is beyond me.
If you want to gripe- take a trip back to when FA91 was graduating - Fisher in 1991 was BAD.
There is no good thing to take away from being a doormat....But then again look where we are now!
Buck up buttercup!

You don't have to even go back that far. My freshman year at Fisher (2000) they were really bad. They won 1 game that year against an 0-10 SLU team. If you would have told me then they were 6 years from a final four I would have laughed in your face. while this team is not the 06 version it certainly isn't the 00 version either.

[Bombers798891]

I'm going to have to check my media guides, but Jim Butterfield did not have many non-NYers, IIRC.

Welch has said before that he thought his 2004 team was his best ever. Here were their non-NY starters/contributors against St. John Fisher that season:

QB Josh Felicetti (PA) 18-for-33, 182 yards, TD
RB Jamie Donovan (DC) 14 carries, 58 yards, TD
RB James Davis (NJ) 6 carries, 20 yards
FB Jamie Free (CT) 6 carries, 23 yards, TD; 5 catches, 60 yards
OL Chris Swiss (CT) Starter on O-line
OL Mark Hedglin (PA) Starter on O-line
K Brett Kittenplon (FLA) Starting PK
SS Charlie Stephens (CT) 13 tackles

Other non NYers on that team included
CB Matt Tosh (PA) Missed the Fisher game with an injury, starter in 2003 and 2004
CB Dane Hewlitt (PA) Depth DB, 3 INT in 2006
S Ryan Terlecki (PA) Missed Fisher game with an injury, starter in 2006 and 2007
QB Jeff O Hara (PA) Caught 31 passes for 476 yards and 4 TDs in 2005
WR PJ Canestrari (NJ) Caught 4 TDs in 2005
TE Tom Lebanski (NJ) Caught 3 TDs in 2005
WR Patrick Heenehan (NJ) Caught 23 passes in 2006, 23 in 2007
DE Mark Licwinko (PA) 4 sacks, 2 FR in 2004; 4 sacks, 11 TFL in 2005
OL Justin Brunell (Mass) Starter on 2005 OL

That's 17 guys who were key contributors at one point or another. And again, I need to check my old media guides, but that's what strikes me as different from Butterfield to Welch. There's just so many more options for NY kids now, and IC is so pricey, you have to expand your footprint beyond NY now.

[fisheralum91]

Courage bowl this weekend!
Did I see right that the game is at 4?
That seems odd.
Thoughts on Brockport -Fisher?
Foxy gets his first shot against his alma mater and former employer.

[Jonny Utah]

I'm going to have to check my media guides, but Jim Butterfield did not have many non-NYers, IIRC.

Welch has said before that he thought his 2004 team was his best ever. Here were their non-NY starters/contributors against St. John Fisher that season:

QB Josh Felicetti (PA) 18-for-33, 182 yards, TD
RB Jamie Donovan (DC) 14 carries, 58 yards, TD
RB James Davis (NJ) 6 carries, 20 yards
FB Jamie Free (CT) 6 carries, 23 yards, TD; 5 catches, 60 yards
OL Chris Swiss (CT) Starter on O-line
OL Mark Hedglin (PA) Starter on O-line
K Brett Kittenplon (FLA) Starting PK
SS Charlie Stephens (CT) 13 tackles

Other non NYers on that team included
CB Matt Tosh (PA) Missed the Fisher game with an injury, starter in 2003 and 2004
CB Dane Hewlitt (PA) Depth DB, 3 INT in 2006
S Ryan Terlecki (PA) Missed Fisher game with an injury, starter in 2006 and 2007
QB Jeff O Hara (PA) Caught 31 passes for 476 yards and 4 TDs in 2005
WR PJ Canestrari (NJ) Caught 4 TDs in 2005
TE Tom Lebanski (NJ) Caught 3 TDs in 2005
WR Patrick Heenehan (NJ) Caught 23 passes in 2006, 23 in 2007
DE Mark Licwinko (PA) 4 sacks, 2 FR in 2004; 4 sacks, 11 TFL in 2005
OL Justin Brunell (Mass) Starter on 2005 OL

That's 17 guys who were key contributors at one point or another. And again, I need to check my old media guides, but that's what strikes me as different from Butterfield to Welch. There's just so many more options for NY kids now, and IC is so pricey, you have to expand your footprint beyond NY now.

Yea that's a lot, and like I said, I think the NE prep guys help, but they shouldn't be the focus of your recruiting.  Off the top of my head I'll list some of the 1990's stars and where they were from:

Neil Wiedman:  Dansville, NY
Mike O'Donovan:  Philly area
Jeff Higgins:  Glens Falls, NY
Tommy Giorgio:  Sachem, NY
Scott Connlley: Salem, MA
Briggs Bedigian:  Maine
Matt George:  Berwick, PA
Jeff Erne: Rochester area
Mike Sansone:  Toms River NJ,
Ron Amato: Syracuse area (Solvay?)
Todd Sandigato:  NJ somewhere?
Joe Palumbo:  Hudson, NY I think
Abe Cesay:  Binghamton
Matt Buddenhagen:  Hortonville, NY
Adam Grossman: New Jersey

In fact, that 1994 team didn't have any stars that I can think of except for maybe Higgins and PJ Cooney (Harrisburg, PA).  QB Murphy from CT, Jason Nichols from Pachogue, NY, Scott Connely, Caruso is from CT, Raushenberger from NJ or LI.  I can't remember where George Judware was from.

(I have a lot of spelling mistakes here, and I apologize for that)

[AUPepBand]

(Legendary) Coach Alex Yunevich, whose recruiting methods were unlike most, occasionally went down into rural Pennsylvania to try to bring in some football players.

One particular prospect was a beast of a farm boy. Yunie made a personal unannounced visit. He met the kid's mother at the front door. When Yunie inquired of the whereabouts of her son, the mother replied that he was still out in the fields working. But she was cordial and invited him in. She then asked him whether he would be willing to stack some firewood while he waited. He gladly agreed. So she led him through the kitchen out to the back porch where he found Joe Paterno churning butter and out near the barn was Ben Schwartzwalder feeding the pigs.

Recruiting is a funny thing. Kind of like finding a spouse. Heck, Pep's grandfather, who was the announcer at Merrill Field from 1932 to 1976, always said that his son Ed found his spouse "under a rock down in Greenwood."

On Saxon Warriors!

[Bombers798891]

I'm going to have to check my media guides, but Jim Butterfield did not have many non-NYers, IIRC.

Welch has said before that he thought his 2004 team was his best ever. Here were their non-NY starters/contributors against St. John Fisher that season:

QB Josh Felicetti (PA) 18-for-33, 182 yards, TD
RB Jamie Donovan (DC) 14 carries, 58 yards, TD
RB James Davis (NJ) 6 carries, 20 yards
FB Jamie Free (CT) 6 carries, 23 yards, TD; 5 catches, 60 yards
OL Chris Swiss (CT) Starter on O-line
OL Mark Hedglin (PA) Starter on O-line
K Brett Kittenplon (FLA) Starting PK
SS Charlie Stephens (CT) 13 tackles

Other non NYers on that team included
CB Matt Tosh (PA) Missed the Fisher game with an injury, starter in 2003 and 2004
CB Dane Hewlitt (PA) Depth DB, 3 INT in 2006
S Ryan Terlecki (PA) Missed Fisher game with an injury, starter in 2006 and 2007
QB Jeff O Hara (PA) Caught 31 passes for 476 yards and 4 TDs in 2005
WR PJ Canestrari (NJ) Caught 4 TDs in 2005
TE Tom Lebanski (NJ) Caught 3 TDs in 2005
WR Patrick Heenehan (NJ) Caught 23 passes in 2006, 23 in 2007
DE Mark Licwinko (PA) 4 sacks, 2 FR in 2004; 4 sacks, 11 TFL in 2005
OL Justin Brunell (Mass) Starter on 2005 OL

That's 17 guys who were key contributors at one point or another. And again, I need to check my old media guides, but that's what strikes me as different from Butterfield to Welch. There's just so many more options for NY kids now, and IC is so pricey, you have to expand your footprint beyond NY now.

Yea that's a lot, and like I said, I think the NE prep guys help, but they shouldn't be the focus of your recruiting.  Off the top of my head I'll list some of the 1990's stars and where they were from:

Neil Wiedman:  Dansville, NY
Mike O'Donovan:  Philly area
Jeff Higgins:  Glens Falls, NY
Tommy Giorgio:  Sachem, NY
Scott Connlley: Salem, MA
Briggs Bedigian:  Maine
Matt George:  Berwick, PA
Jeff Erne: Rochester area
Mike Sansone:  Toms River NJ,
Ron Amato: Syracuse area (Solvay?)
Todd Sandigato:  NJ somewhere?
Joe Palumbo:  Hudson, NY I think
Abe Cesay:  Binghamton
Matt Buddenhagen:  Hortonville, NY
Adam Grossman: New Jersey

In fact, that 1994 team didn't have any stars that I can think of except for maybe Higgins and PJ Cooney (Harrisburg, PA).  QB Murphy from CT, Jason Nichols from Pachogue, NY, Scott Connely, Caruso is from CT, Raushenberger from NJ or LI.  I can't remember where George Judware was from.

(I have a lot of spelling mistakes here, and I apologize for that)

I mean, I think the focus of IC's recruiting is still NY, but my point is more that with the increase in teams in upstate NY + Ithaca being less good/more expensive, the Bombers don't have the luxury they had in the 1980s/early 90s of just picking the best in-state players and being great, and then sprinkling a couple of guys from wherever on top.

Now, I think, if you're a private school in upstate NY, you have to get those guys. St. Lawrence, for example has I think 33 guys from CT/Ma

[Bartman]

Interesting topic on geography of recruiting. I noticed that Hobart has about 2/3 of the team outside of  Upstate/Western NY  with 4 from California, 4 from Florida, 1 from Texas and 1 from British Columbia. While some of the long distance team members attended NE prep schools , there are a few that are truly local. We put the Fla. and Cal boys near our campus palm trees in the winter

[sjfcards]

Courage bowl this weekend!
Did I see right that the game is at 4?
That seems odd.
Thoughts on Brockport -Fisher?
Foxy gets his first shot against his alma mater and former employer.

Yes, the game is at 4 according to both websites. Not sure why but there doesn't appear at a quick glance that there is any other sports going on at the stadium that day.

Should be a fun game.  Last year's Courage Bowl was a classic, and the last (first) time it was at Brockport the crowd w a s huge. Here is hoping for more of the same from the two teams.

[AUPepBand]

Interesting topic on geography of recruiting. I noticed that Hobart has about 2/3 of the team outside of  Upstate/Western NY  with 4 from California, 4 from Florida, 1 from Texas and 1 from British Columbia. While some of the long distance team members attended NE prep schools , there are a few that are truly local. We put the Fla. and Cal boys near our campus palm trees in the winter

AU has some 150 players on the roster and only about a dozen are from out-of-state. While AU gets its fair share of Upstate/Western NY kids, in recent years, there's been a larger contingency from Long Island and NYC.

Pep has often wondered how Cragg lands so many out-of-state players....but then, Geneva is a "vacation paradise" on the north shore of Seneca Lake. Just haven't ever seen the palm trees, Bartman!