FB: Empire 8

[IC798891]

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

They owed IC a makeup after naming Cortland's Zack Graczyk the NY region player of the year over Tim Locastro in 2013. 10 years later, they've righted the wrong

Or, more likely, there's more to these lists than just being the superior player statistically

[Pat Coleman]

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

They owed IC a makeup after naming Cortland's Zack Graczyk the NY region player of the year over Tim Locastro in 2013. 10 years later, they've righted the wrong

Or, more likely, there's more to these lists than just being the superior player statistically

I mean, not one single person overlaps between those two awards calls, but sure.

[IC798891]

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

They owed IC a makeup after naming Cortland's Zack Graczyk the NY region player of the year over Tim Locastro in 2013. 10 years later, they've righted the wrong

Or, more likely, there's more to these lists than just being the superior player statistically

I mean, not one single person overlaps between those two awards calls, but sure.

Aren't you guys all a hive mind at this point?

[Pat Coleman]

Football and basketball are more intertwined than baseball is.

[unionpalooza]

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

They owed IC a makeup after naming Cortland's Zack Graczyk the NY region player of the year over Tim Locastro in 2013. 10 years later, they've righted the wrong

Or, more likely, there's more to these lists than just being the superior player statistically

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me. 

[IC798891]

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

How many times did Jason Boltus end up an all-american?

[unionpalooza]

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

How many times did Jason Boltus end up an all-american?

How many times did a QB outside the top 50 in every major statistical category end up an all-American?

[Jonny Utah]

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

How many times did Jason Boltus end up an all-american?

How many times did a QB outside the top 50 in every major statistical category end up an all-American?

Forget about Boyes, Luke Lehnen also did not make the top 3 (all seniors).  As Pat said, maybe some "unconscious" decisions were made with this list.

[unionpalooza]

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

How many times did Jason Boltus end up an all-american?

How many times did a QB outside the top 50 in every major statistical category end up an all-American?

Forget about Boyes, Luke Lehnen also did not make the top 3 (all seniors).  As Pat said, maybe some "unconscious" decisions were made with this list.

Yep.

[Jonny Utah]

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

How many times did Jason Boltus end up an all-american?

How many times did a QB outside the top 50 in every major statistical category end up an all-American?

Forget about Boyes, Luke Lehnen also did not make the top 3 (all seniors).  As Pat said, maybe some "unconscious" decisions were made with this list.

Yep.

We also all know here that the LL is the best conference in the country so we need to take into account passing stats vs the LL.  Not even close there.....

EDIT:  The d3football preseason AA list has the following by class:
39 Seniors
16 Juniors
0 Soph/Frosh

2022 Final AA list:
77 Seniors
16 Juniors
11 Sophmores
0 Frosh

For whatever that is worth.

[Ice Bear]

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

They owed IC a makeup after naming Cortland's Zack Graczyk the NY region player of the year over Tim Locastro in 2013. 10 years later, they've righted the wrong

Or, more likely, there's more to these lists than just being the superior player statistically

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

Ice Bear says maybe IC's big W over Cortland at Giant's Stadium played a role Ice says take that head to head matchup into account and the fact that Wingfield led IC to two wins in the playoffs while Cortland and Boyes got dropped like a vegetarian Red Dragon in the first round, and both of these things fresh in the memory of voters being at the end of the season??? Ice doesn't know, but maybe this provides some type of explanation?

[Jonny Utah]

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

They owed IC a makeup after naming Cortland's Zack Graczyk the NY region player of the year over Tim Locastro in 2013. 10 years later, they've righted the wrong

Or, more likely, there's more to these lists than just being the superior player statistically

Totally get that, but would think that as the only real tangible measurement they count for most, and it's not even close.  A quick look at 2022 national rankings for QBs -

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

Again, I think Wingfield is a stud QB, but Boyes seems criminally overlooked, to me.

Ice Bear says maybe IC's big W over Cortland at Giant's Stadium played a role Ice says take that head to head matchup into account and the fact that Wingfield led IC to two wins in the playoffs while Cortland and Boyes got dropped like a vegetarian Red Dragon in the first round, and both of these things fresh in the memory of voters being at the end of the season??? Ice doesn't know, but maybe this provides some type of explanation?

QBs in d3 definitely play tougher competition in the playoffs.  You wouldn't be doing your job as a voter if you just looked at stats at their face. 

Cortland/IC opponents "total defense" stats:

3rd: Brockport (Both IC/Cortland)
4th: RPI (Ithaca)
5th: North Central (Ithaca)
27: Hobart (Ithaca)
35: Umass Dartmouth (Ithaca)
39: Union (Ithaca)
44: Ithaca (Cortland)
45: Cortland (Ithaca)

Ithaca played 7 games against teams that had top 50 "total defenses" (yards per game).  Cortland played against two.

Being a huge homer here but you still can't ignore some of this stuff.  I do think if Boyes was a senior and Wingfield a Jr that Boyes would be the AA.  Let's get that out of the way before we go any deeper into this conversation. 

[IC798891]

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

How many times did a QB outside the top 50 in every major statistical category end up an all-American?

Of the three categories you list (which by the way, do not constitute "every" major statistical category) to make the case for Boyes, how many did Boyes lead his own conference in?

So maybe, just maybe, before we argue those statistics make him an all-American, those statistics should make him the best quarterback in his seven-team conference?

But enough sarcasm. Here's my non-snarky answer: Boyes numbers are better because he rarely played elite defenses

Wingfield had 7 games against teams in the Top 50 in yards allowed. Boyes had 2. Why did I pick Top 50? Because you saw fit to draw that line around Wingfield's stats. So once again, I'm using parameters you seem to think are relevant

Let's check out Boyes and Wingfield's lines in those aforementioned games

Boyes against top 50 defenses in yards allowed: 54% completion, 144 YPG, 1 TD, 2 INT
Wingfield against top 50 defenses in yards allowed: 64% completion, 141 YPG, 10 TD, 5 INT

Have you considered that voters give limited weight to Boyes lighting up also-ran teams like Buff State, Wittenberg, Hartwick and cared more about the fact that he was shut down by Ithaca, and in the second half of Cortland's first round playoff loss?

Or that they were impressed by Wingfield having a 3 TD, 0 INT, 166 yard performance against Brockport's top 5 ranked overall defense, or his near perfect, 18-of-20, 3 TD, 0 INT performance against Cortland's 45th ranked defense, and no one really cared that he "only" threw for 59 yards in their playoff opener against UMass Dartmouth in a game the Bombers led by 42 points in the second quarter?

Here's another answer: Ithaca asks Wingfield to do different things than Cortland asks Boyes to do. When you throw deep downfield (against worse defenses), you're going to have better yardage numbers. Wingfield is perfectly capable of lighting teams up through the air, if IC is so inclined. In 2021, he had a pair of 300 yard games, and threw for 275 against Buffalo State in one half.

They didn't last year. They asked him to run an RPO offense, get the ball to his playmakers on WR screens, and limit mistakes. That might be why Wingfield had 7 picks on 295 attempts, while Boyes had 10 on 245.

[unionpalooza]

Passing Efficiency:  Boyes #3, Wingfield #65
Passing YPG:  Boyes #24, Wingfield #132
Passing TDS:  Boyes #16, Wingfield #67

How many times did a QB outside the top 50 in every major statistical category end up an all-American?

Of the three categories you list (which by the way, do not constitute "every" major statistical category) to make the case for Boyes, how many did Boyes lead his own conference in?

So maybe, just maybe, before we argue those statistics make him an all-American, those statistics should make him the best quarterback in his seven-team conference?

But enough sarcasm. Here's my non-snarky answer: Boyes numbers are better because he rarely played elite defenses

Wingfield had 7 games against teams in the Top 50 in yards allowed. Boyes had 2. Why did I pick Top 50? Because you saw fit to draw that line around Wingfield's stats. So once again, I'm using parameters you seem to think are relevant

Let's check out Boyes and Wingfield's lines in those aforementioned games

Boyes against top 50 defenses in yards allowed: 54% completion, 144 YPG, 1 TD, 2 INT
Wingfield against top 50 defenses in yards allowed: 64% completion, 141 YPG, 10 TD, 5 INT

Have you considered that voters give limited weight to Boyes lighting up also-ran teams like Buff State, Wittenberg, Hartwick and cared more about the fact that he was shut down by Ithaca, and in the second half of Cortland's first round playoff loss?

Or that they were impressed by Wingfield having a 3 TD, 0 INT, 166 yard performance against Brockport's top 5 ranked overall defense, or his near perfect, 18-of-20, 3 TD, 0 INT performance against Cortland's 45th ranked defense, and no one really cared that he "only" threw for 59 yards in their playoff opener against UMass Dartmouth in a game the Bombers led by 42 points in the second quarter?

Here's another answer: Ithaca asks Wingfield to do different things than Cortland asks Boyes to do. When you throw deep downfield (against worse defenses), you're going to have better yardage numbers. Wingfield is perfectly capable of lighting teams up through the air, if IC is so inclined. In 2021, he had a pair of 300 yard games, and threw for 275 against Buffalo State in one half.

They didn't last year. They asked him to run an RPO offense, get the ball to his playmakers on WR screens, and limit mistakes. That might be why Wingfield had 7 picks on 295 attempts, while Boyes had 10 on 245.

These are all great points, and I think you've convinced me that I've underestimated Boyes' flaws, and that the head to head with Wingfield could go either way.  But I remain thoroughly skeptical that Wingfield is one of the three best D3 QBs in the country. 

[jmcozenlaw]

Thoughts on this E8 season?

Cortland's to lose.

I know Brockport made fools of us all when they made the playoffs without Joe G, while Ithaca failed to do so with him in 2019. But since Germinerio's departure, Port QBs have thrown for 24 TDs and 30 INTs. And while their defense is usually tough and the running game solid, I just don't know if they have the firepower to survive a shootout with Cortland (or Utica).

And, while Utica was, in many ways, the story of the East last year, their showdown with Cortland — at home, no less — was the kind of performance that makes me say "I need to see you prove it before I predict it"

Cortland brings back a lot of talent, and I think they'll run the table in conference again. And they better, because what an OOC schedule they have.

They get a DelVal team, at home, in the opener, who lost 4 defensive All-Americans and 3 other starters.................and an offense that lost 5 of their top 6 WR's. There is zero excuse, rankings aside (inflated for DelVal) for an experienced Cortland team to not roll DelVal at home. IMO.

This makes sense, but I'd also never count DVC out of anything. 

On a related topic, how on earth does AJ Wingfield make the D3 preseason team over Boyes?  Wingfield is a good QB, but Boyes was third in the nation in QB efficiency, and better than Wingfeld in almost every statistical category. (Wingfield didn't even put up the best numbers in his own conference.). (Of course, there may be other QBs better than Wingfield, nationally.  I'm just saying they are clearly better ones in NY state.).

The Aggies roster is such a former shell of itself that their #3 QB is also their #1 TE...................and their #3 LB, a 240 pounder, is playing safety. If they pull anything off this year, their staff is the Coaching Staff of the Century. They need a Mount Union/UMHB-like 80-90 players coming through the doors this time next year. Do you believe in miracles? Not so much.

As mentioned above and what was mentioned in an earlier post, given what DelVal lost on defense (4 All-Americans, including a 2 time D3 player of the year and 3 other starters) and losing 5 of their top 6 WR's, RB #2, FB #1, TE #1, 3 OL.........in addition to the lower roster numbers/lack of depth, only 3 QB's in the entire program (and QB #3 is TE #1)...............and all that Cortland has coming back AND being at home.........I expect a beat down in Cortland in a few days. Anything less would be shocking to me and would speak volumes as to how far Cortland can go this year in the playoffs. The Cortland bar is set at winning 2 home playoff games and getting to a national quarterfinal (like DelVal last year)........before being served up as Thanksgiving dinner for North Central or Mount Union.