FB: Empire 8

[XREDDRAGON77]

Years ago when I was still playing, SJF was about as bad as bad could be! But that was the mid 90's! Anyway...I recall when they had the Bills for camp, and I believe they built their stadium around that time. Another poster exclaimed that with all the new facilities and NFL camps, "You can't make Chicken Salad from Chicken Sh*t!" I guess they proved the haters wrong. Once those wheels got turning, they had it rolling! The Jets def gave Cortland some exposure and being on Hard Knocks couldn't have hurt either! Maybe SJF needs to lure an NFL team back to get their name out there!

[Bartman]

Years ago when I was still playing, SJF was about as bad as bad could be! But that was the mid 90's! Anyway...I recall when they had the Bills for camp, and I believe they built their stadium around that time. Another poster exclaimed that with all the new facilities and NFL camps, "You can't make Chicken Salad from Chicken Sh*t!" I guess they proved the haters wrong. Once those wheels got turning, they had it rolling! The Jets def gave Cortland some exposure and being on Hard Knocks couldn't have hurt either! Maybe SJF needs to lure an NFL team back to get their name out there!

I loved the Hobart -Fisher games up until 2016. I can't understand why they can't recruit top D3 talent. Cortland(and Ithaca) has had a huge recruiting edge with recent Cortaca games played in NFL/MLB venues.

[fisheralum91]

Boys- Its a sad state of affairs for the Fisher program these days.
They do have a good bunch of kids - but for some reason they are getting lit up.
I mean Marietta?
Those games were supposed to be sleepwalks.
Now my gut tells me that Wilkes or Keystone could take em.
Jeeez- how the mighty have fallen

[IC798891]

I'm happy to offer an opinion to any Fisher fans who want to DM me. I do not want to state what I think the problem is on a public forum

[unionpalooza]

I'm happy to offer an opinion to any Fisher fans who want to DM me. I do not want to state what I think the problem is on a public forum

I'd certainly be interested in whatever explanation is available for public consumption.  They just fell off a cliff after a decade of sustained success.  Same coach.  Seems weird.

[Pat Coleman]

Assistant coaches also move on and that has a big impact.

[IC798891]

Assistant coaches also move on and that has a big impact.

This is a big part of it

[XREDDRAGON77]

Seems like most of the NY programs have had their ups and downs, but I've found Fisher to be the most interesting. They truly went from Ashy to Classy. From struggling to catch win, then straight to a final 4 team in team in about a decade. I guess nobody is immune except Mount Union!

[IC798891]

Seems like most of the NY programs have had their ups and downs, but I've found Fisher to be the most interesting. They truly went from Ashy to Classy. From struggling to catch win, then straight to a final 4 team in team in about a decade. I guess nobody is immune except Mount Union!

This is sorta what happened to Cortland though too.

In 1986: 1-8
In 1988: The second best team in the entire country. I will die on this hill. IC rolled the semis and the Stagg. If Cortland had beaten IC in the playoffs (and they led 17-16 in the 4th quarter), they would have won the Stagg Bowl
1993: 1-9

I think for a lot of teams, it really is a specific coach/staff/class of recruits.

[unionpalooza]

Seems like most of the NY programs have had their ups and downs, but I've found Fisher to be the most interesting. They truly went from Ashy to Classy. From struggling to catch win, then straight to a final 4 team in team in about a decade. I guess nobody is immune except Mount Union!

This is sorta what happened to Cortland though too.

In 1986: 1-8
In 1988: The second best team in the entire country. I will die on this hill. IC rolled the semis and the Stagg. If Cortland had beaten IC in the playoffs (and they led 17-16 in the 4th quarter), they would have won the Stagg Bowl
1993: 1-9

I think for a lot of teams, it really is a specific coach/staff/class of recruits.

Super interesting; I never appreciated Cortland was a flash in the pan in 1980s.

All this goes to what I continue to think is the most interesting question in D3 football, which actually doesn't get discussed much:  what are the key to national success in D3 football?  Is it coaching?  Location?  Admissions standards?  Recruiting budget?  Dumb luck?  If you were given infinite resources and power, what would you do to turn your average D3 program into the next North Central?  At a certain point reputation and success breed reputation and success, but what are the magical turning points? 

[Jonny Utah]

Seems like most of the NY programs have had their ups and downs, but I've found Fisher to be the most interesting. They truly went from Ashy to Classy. From struggling to catch win, then straight to a final 4 team in team in about a decade. I guess nobody is immune except Mount Union!

This is sorta what happened to Cortland though too.

In 1986: 1-8
In 1988: The second best team in the entire country. I will die on this hill. IC rolled the semis and the Stagg. If Cortland had beaten IC in the playoffs (and they led 17-16 in the 4th quarter), they would have won the Stagg Bowl
1993: 1-9

I think for a lot of teams, it really is a specific coach/staff/class of recruits.

Super interesting; I never appreciated Cortland was a flash in the pan in 1980s.

All this goes to what I continue to think is the most interesting question in D3 football, which actually doesn't get discussed much:  what are the key to national success in D3 football?  Is it coaching?  Location?  Admissions standards?  Recruiting budget?  Dumb luck?  If you were given infinite resources and power, what would you do to turn your average D3 program into the next North Central?  At a certain point reputation and success breed reputation and success, but what are the magical turning points?

The million dollar question.  I think it starts with recruiting your backyard.  How many times do we see local players from an upstate town be the top dog at an upstate d3 school?  Gotta get those guys first.  After that I think you simply need a good coach that can recruit, establish culture, and coach.  I mean "coaching" is probably the #1 thing there but you can't win with Xs and Os long term without having a good culture and recruiting base (good players).  After that you gotta look at the transfers now along with decent national recruiting.  Consistency with your staff is also important (keeping the OC/DC or have a system where you are grooming a position coach to take over).

In addition to the "culture" and coaching in general, I wonder if d3 is changing more to a stepping stone type job for some of these coaches.  We saw it at IC with Swanstrom and we also saw it with IC's coordinators last off season.  Poppe is a little older so I wonder if this is his last stop?  He stayed at Harvard for a long time and didn't bounce around like many coaches do when they want to "move up."  That tells me he might want to stay there long term.

[IC798891]

I guess we have to define success.

Is it a Cortland like brief moment in time? 15 years for Fisher and Alfred? 40 years for IC?

And then what's the peak? A national title? Being in the mix?

Having worked in higher education for a long time, I think it really comes down to whether the institution as a whole wants to be a success. This isn't basketball, where you can get to the Sweet 16 on the backs of six guys, or wrestling or track, where a team title is possible if you have a dozen. You've got to be strong on both sides of the ball, and you've got to have depth pieces for special teams and different looks.

That simply requires a different level of institutional support than many schools want to offer, or are able to

[fisheralum91]

I think this speaks volumes.
For Fisher I can speak to Dr K and Doc Bain who openly backed not only the football program but athletics as a whole.
I do not know Dr. Rooney so I cant speak to the current admin, but there was a different vibe in the late 90s and early 2000s on the Fisher Campus.
Prior to that time the admin had an openly adversarial relationship with the AD as well as the athletics as a whole especially from 87-91.

Cost is an issue as well.
I wanted FA91 son to be a legacy- but when scholarship money was compared- Fisher was literally 20k higher per year after the scholarship moneys!

[Jonny Utah]

I think this speaks volumes.
For Fisher I can speak to Dr K and Doc Bain who openly backed not only the football program but athletics as a whole.
I do not know Dr. Rooney so I cant speak to the current admin, but there was a different vibe in the late 90s and early 2000s on the Fisher Campus.
Prior to that time the admin had an openly adversarial relationship with the AD as well as the athletics as a whole especially from 87-91.

Cost is an issue as well.
I wanted FA91 son to be a legacy- but when scholarship money was compared- Fisher was literally 20k higher per year after the scholarship moneys!

Yea I forgot about admissions and financial aid "support" are the cornerstones of a successful athletic program in general. 

[fisheralum91]

"Support"
I get that these schools are all competing for the same kids essentially.
Sure there are some institutions that have a traditionally higher tuition, but in the grand scheme the kids are the same bunch.
Some may think that state schools have a tuition advantage- not so fast my friend- I have 2 in college now- one at a SUNY - one at a private.
SUNY has cost us MORE than the private even though tuition is in the very high 30s!