FB: Empire 8

fisheralum91 · October 12, 2006, 12:02:35 PM

Hate to say it but.....go port!

realistic · October 12, 2006, 12:49:23 PM

FA91 -- if you're bored over here today, head over to NJAC.....Bombsaway has them riled up. Some good reading.

bombsaway · October 12, 2006, 12:49:59 PM

I think the E8 is a detriment to IC. Fisher is getting better which will make the conference competitve, but Springfield seems to be destined to only play the role of spoiler in the next few seasons at least. My last season as a broadcaster was the year before the automatic berth came from winning the E-8. Before that I often argued that Ithaca should play a tougher schedule. Back then it was annually, hartwick, St. Lawrence, Utica, Fisher, hobart, bport, springfield, mansfield, alfred, and buff st. IC would always have tough games against springfield and bport, but would usually just roll over everyone else. Meanwhile other teams in the area are out playing tougher competition and even if they lose 2 games they're still a pool C bid at least.

Ithaca is now in a position, and was back then, where if they drop 2 games they're a bubble team. I always thought they should book a tougher schedule, they could still win as many games, just not win by blowouts, and then if they drop 2 games, they're still in. they could go 9-1 this year and be on the bubble because they didn't win the conference. Plus I think it would prepare the team better when they did get into the post-season. Beating up on a Norwich squad a couple weeks before you his a playoff game isn't exactly preparing you for the post-season.

Jonny Utah · October 12, 2006, 12:57:07 PM

Quote from: bombsaway on October 12, 2006, 12:49:59 PM
I think the E8 is a detriment to IC. Fisher is getting better which will make the conference competitve, but Springfield seems to be destined to only play the role of spoiler in the next few seasons at least. My last season as a broadcaster was the year before the automatic berth came from winning the E-8. Before that I often argued that Ithaca should play a tougher schedule. Back then it was annually, hartwick, St. Lawrence, Utica, Fisher, hobart, bport, springfield, mansfield, alfred, and buff st. IC would always have tough games against springfield and bport, but would usually just roll over everyone else. Meanwhile other teams in the area are out playing tougher competition and even if they lose 2 games they're still a pool C bid at least.

Ithaca is now in a position, and was back then, where if they drop 2 games they're a bubble team. I always thought they should book a tougher schedule, they could still win as many games, just not win by blowouts, and then if they drop 2 games, they're still in. they could go 9-1 this year and be on the bubble because they didn't win the conference. Plus I think it would prepare the team better when they did get into the post-season. Beating up on a Norwich squad a couple weeks before you his a playoff game isn't exactly preparing you for the post-season.

Well lets compare current opponents this year to how they were 10 years ago even.

Buff State- 10 times worse than they were in 1996
Brockport- About the same
Cortland- doesnt matter it will always be a good game. IC plays down to them when IC is better anyway.
Alfred- 10 times better than the were in 1996
Springfield--- 3 times better than they were in 1996
Hartwick- just swap them with St. Lawrence in 1996
Norwich- didnt play them
Utica- didnt play them
Huntington-nope
St. John Fisher- didnt play them but they are a top 10-20 team.

theicdubbz · October 12, 2006, 01:02:54 PM

i hate picture day......

bombsaway · October 12, 2006, 01:05:44 PM

John I agree, the conference is improving and I agree with your comparisons on how the teams have evolved. I'm not looking at this from a cocky Ic fan thing, I just think there are tougher conferences out there and tougher opponents that I'd like to see the bombers go up against to make every week a cortland like week.

Hopefully the teams all continue to grow and improve and every week will be a grudge match. The E8 has potential, but with the exception of Fisher, IC just doesn't have a rivalry going within the conference.

realistic · October 12, 2006, 01:06:09 PM

Quote from: bombsaway on October 12, 2006, 12:49:59 PM
I think the E8 is a detriment to IC. Fisher is getting better which will make the conference competitve, but Springfield seems to be destined to only play the role of spoiler in the next few seasons at least. My last season as a broadcaster was the year before the automatic berth came from winning the E-8. Before that I often argued that Ithaca should play a tougher schedule. Back then it was annually, hartwick, St. Lawrence, Utica, Fisher, hobart, bport, springfield, mansfield, alfred, and buff st. IC would always have tough games against springfield and bport, but would usually just roll over everyone else. Meanwhile other teams in the area are out playing tougher competition and even if they lose 2 games they're still a pool C bid at least.

Ithaca is now in a position, and was back then, where if they drop 2 games they're a bubble team. I always thought they should book a tougher schedule, they could still win as many games, just not win by blowouts, and then if they drop 2 games, they're still in. they could go 9-1 this year and be on the bubble because they didn't win the conference. Plus I think it would prepare the team better when they did get into the post-season. Beating up on a Norwich squad a couple weeks before you his a playoff game isn't exactly preparing you for the post-season.

The E8 is in no way a detriment to IC (in any sports, not just football)....a conference like that is a perfect fit. Granted it would be nice to have a schedule of all the northeast "power" schools but it wasn't happening as an independant and it wasn't going to happen if IC stayed away from a conference. Ithaca was playing AIC, Mansfield, Wilkes, etc because they were the only options.

The E8 formation, and what looks to be continued improvement as a league is perfect for what Ithaca, Fisher, SC, AU, etc want to do. They can play a number a quality teams on a year in, year out basis. If IC can continue to schedule a big out of conference or out of region game each year....then even better. Granted, the Huntingdon game wasn't as big as expected this year, it was still nice to see.

Jonny Utah · October 12, 2006, 01:13:39 PM

Quote from: realistic on October 12, 2006, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: bombsaway on October 12, 2006, 12:49:59 PM
I think the E8 is a detriment to IC. Fisher is getting better which will make the conference competitve, but Springfield seems to be destined to only play the role of spoiler in the next few seasons at least. My last season as a broadcaster was the year before the automatic berth came from winning the E-8. Before that I often argued that Ithaca should play a tougher schedule. Back then it was annually, hartwick, St. Lawrence, Utica, Fisher, hobart, bport, springfield, mansfield, alfred, and buff st. IC would always have tough games against springfield and bport, but would usually just roll over everyone else. Meanwhile other teams in the area are out playing tougher competition and even if they lose 2 games they're still a pool C bid at least.

Ithaca is now in a position, and was back then, where if they drop 2 games they're a bubble team. I always thought they should book a tougher schedule, they could still win as many games, just not win by blowouts, and then if they drop 2 games, they're still in. they could go 9-1 this year and be on the bubble because they didn't win the conference. Plus I think it would prepare the team better when they did get into the post-season. Beating up on a Norwich squad a couple weeks before you his a playoff game isn't exactly preparing you for the post-season.

The E8 is in no way a detriment to IC (in any sports, not just football)....a conference like that is a perfect fit. Granted it would be nice to have a schedule of all the northeast "power" schools but it wasn't happening as an independant and it wasn't going to happen if IC stayed away from a conference. Ithaca was playing AIC, Mansfield, Wilkes, etc because they were the only options.

The E8 formation, and what looks to be continued improvement as a league is perfect for what Ithaca, Fisher, SC, AU, etc want to do. They can play a number a quality teams on a year in, year out basis. If IC can continue to schedule a big out of conference or out of region game each year....then even better. Granted, the Huntingdon game wasn't as big as expected this year, it was still nice to see.

I dont think he meant that Ithaca was above the E8 in anyway. But historically Ithaca was on its own and played who it wanted to. Teams like AIC, NJAC schools, Mansfield and others were played because they were tough opponents that helped IC prepare for the post-season. Granted, there were always some rivals that were played because of tradition and proximity (Hobart, St. Lawrence, Wilkes, Mansfield) but overall Ithaca wanted to play the best schedule possible every year. Traditions then take form however (Buff St, Brockport, Cortland obviously) and the schedule is made.

Im still thinking a Hobart series is (or should be) worked on in the future. Maybe even St. Lawrence again.

bombsaway · October 12, 2006, 01:18:07 PM

You make a good point Real, it's a good fit if the teams all go in the current direction. Just don't want to get trapped in a situation like teams in the NL West right now. Sure, you win the NL West you're the Div. champ and you're going to the playoffs... but it's still the NL West, have your schedule is against Colorado (no offense yellow) and Arizona (no offense yellow) and maybe some rivalry games against the upstate team Giants (no offense b-27 upstate is nice)

I mean look at cortland the last few seasons, they have gone up against IC with the bombers having 1 or no losses and C-state being at 3 losses and C-state wins the game. Granted rivalry games the records get tossed out the window, but the NJ is a tough conference and it makes teams better. Let's hope the E8 can get there, it is still early in it's history

realistic · October 12, 2006, 01:32:21 PM

Utah/Bombs,

I understand exactly what you guys are saying. But, in the current state of D-III it just can't happen like that. The teams those D-II teams wouldn't help IC's playoff status and because they would have been discounted, then even one loss (recognized as 7-1) would have kept IC out automatically with Pool C. All of this is hypothetical, of course, but my point was more that IC made the best of a situation. The E8 was really the only course of action....and I personally think it has worked out better than anyone expected (at least so far).

Jonny Utah · October 12, 2006, 01:36:43 PM

Quote from: realistic on October 12, 2006, 01:32:21 PM
Utah/Bombs,

I understand exactly what you guys are saying. But, in the current state of D-III it just can't happen like that. The teams those D-II teams wouldn't help IC's playoff status and because they would have been discounted, then even one loss (recognized as 7-1) would have kept IC out automatically with Pool C. All of this is hypothetical, of course, but my point was more that IC made the best of a situation. The E8 was really the only course of action....and I personally think it has worked out better than anyone expected (at least so far).

Well it would have helped them as much as it would have hurt them. Look at Rowans loss this year to a d2 team. Now if that was a team like Ithaca or Wilkes then Rowan would be done with one more loss. Now they arent with the non-division opponent.

(I will always have the belief that playing non d3 opponents and beating them soundly helps a team even though the rules say that non-divisional games do not matter. Human error and influence are always a factor when selecting playoff teams and simply having a rule disregarding games of a regular season doesnt mean the rule can be followed to the letter of the law that it should.) Pat coleman has disagreed with me in the past on this point.

maxpower · October 12, 2006, 01:41:10 PM

Bombs-

The NL West this year wasn't nearly as bad as the central. If the season started at the all-star break, PITTSBURGH would have been your division champion. Ouch. I don't think one team in that division, other than Pittsburgh (37-35) played .500 ball in the second half.

'gro · October 12, 2006, 01:44:57 PM

I wouldn't call springfield a spoiler. They have a system that can win... when they have athletes that can run it. And this year looks like they have that alignment. Does it mean that they will beat either IC or Fisher? no, but if they do, it won't be an upset. I think springfield can hang with both teams and might even put the monkey stomp on either one if they don't come in with a good game plan. It wasn't long ago that sprinfield was the "it" team in the east that was supposed to break through to the national level.

p.s. they lost to RPI at home that year.

realistic · October 12, 2006, 01:45:07 PM

Quote from: John P. Utah on October 12, 2006, 01:36:43 PM
Quote from: realistic on October 12, 2006, 01:32:21 PM
Utah/Bombs,

I understand exactly what you guys are saying. But, in the current state of D-III it just can't happen like that. The teams those D-II teams wouldn't help IC's playoff status and because they would have been discounted, then even one loss (recognized as 7-1) would have kept IC out automatically with Pool C. All of this is hypothetical, of course, but my point was more that IC made the best of a situation. The E8 was really the only course of action....and I personally think it has worked out better than anyone expected (at least so far).

Well it would have helped them as much as it would have hurt them. Look at Rowans loss this year to a d2 team. Now if that was a team like Ithaca or Wilkes then Rowan would be done with one more loss. Now they arent with the non-division opponent.

(I will always have the belief that playing non d3 opponents and beating them soundly helps a team even though the rules say that non-divisional games do not matter. Human error and influence are always a factor when selecting playoff teams and simply having a rule disregarding games of a regular season doesnt mean the rule can be followed to the letter of the law that it should.) Pat coleman has disagreed with me in the past on this point.

I hear you that it is tough for selectors not to consider it one way or another, at least a little. But the differences in what we were saying is that, I was talking about filling the schedule with 2 D-II teams (therefore only 8 contests that count) and Rowan still has the auto-qualifier conference....therefore has more playoffs "chances" in Pools A and B, where based on this senario Ithaca would only have C. With that being the case - Ithaca, as an independant, would have a very difficult time making the playoffs without winning out.

Again, this is obviously all theroretical and was just used to make my case for the E8 not being a detriment to IC.

bombsaway · October 12, 2006, 01:59:01 PM

My karma is at an all time low due to exchanging blows with the NJ boys over on their board, I consider it a personal sacrafice I'm making for the E8 board..

Real, I see both sides. I was just throwing it out there because I think IC fans would love to see more intense games throughout the year. And I agree with John, that if IC did beat a D2 school, it would definitely have influence on the post season.

Max, you're right, the central tanked at the end of the year.... but then we saw the mets sweep out the Dodgers and the Cardinals, who backed their way in and were miserable the 2nd half, easily dispose of the padres in 4 games. Speaking of schedule, baseball has to change the emphasis on divisional play, I think they went overboard with it...