FB: Empire 8

[lumpy]

Well I might as well put my 2 cents in about WNY, im in Erie county (Tonawanda) yea we got a little snow but nothing we cant handle, at least the power is back on, if they would just come and pick up the trees !!!! 2 days till Saterday !!!



GO BOMBERS GO BOMBERS GO BOMBERS

[fisheralum91]

Let me give you a central new yorker's two cents.

Anything west of Syracuse is Weatern NY.

Central starts in Syr and ends in Little Falls.

[lumpy]

Who all is showing up from the FDC?




UNCLE YAGER !!!!!??

[JQV]

Wow a Fisher-Mount Union rumor?  If it is true, I will give a lot of credit to Coach Vosburgh for taking that walk.  Sure they will probably get their head kicked in but, that is how you make the national scene.  I'd like to see IC add to the budget for more inter-regional trips like that.  The Huntingdon matchup was fun this year.  Even the matchups with the PAC teams were great.  ( I wish they would have kept Wilkes or Lyco ).  Keep us posted boys.

Realistic- I'm open to the fact that it's a tough offense to stop. In fact, I believe Fisher will probably have their hands full... I just cannot make myself fathom how at the college level a pure option offense will be able to produce enough against a good defense to win without the threat of throwing to spread the defense out.

See University of Nebraska circa 1994, 1995, and 1997 (man, Gator Nation is going to have my neck for bringing up 1995).  They were so good they got their head coach into Congress! 

I am glad you are keeping an open mind about it.  This has been the best football-related discussion in here in weeks.  +k for that.


By the way, is Tampa Western New York?

[theicdubbz]

Who all is showing up from the FDC?




UNCLE YAGER !!!!!??

I think MIOH and Tecmo are picking him up around 9am. Apparently he'll be at Sports bar with Flash friday. 

[theicdubbz]

Wow a Fisher-Mount Union rumor?  If it is true, I will give a lot of credit to Coach Vosburgh for taking that walk.  Sure they will probably get their head kicked in but, that is how you make the national scene.  I'd like to see IC add to the budget for more inter-regional trips like that.  The Huntingdon matchup was fun this year.  Even the matchups with the PAC teams were great.  ( I wish they would have kept Wilkes or Lyco ).  Keep us posted boys.

Whats this now?  Next season scheduling already ?

[AUKaz00]

Last season A-Rod was the most valuable player of the g*ddamn american league. The Yankees may not "need" him, but they sure as hell won't be better off without him. This year he had an off year to the tune of 35 HR and 100 RBI. He had a terrible year in defense, which averages out with his incredible year in his first year at 3B. Jeter, on the other hand, had uncharacteristically good defensive performance the past two years, and undoubtedly had his career year at the plate. A-Rod is obviously more talented than Jeter, and Jeter had an up year while A-Rod had a down. Players have a tendency to regress to the mean. So explain to me how Derek Jeter is more vaulable to the Yankees next year than A-Rod? Is it his leadership, which, as you pointed out didn't show itself when the issue of A-Rod came up. I think Jeter not defending A-Rod is immaturity on the part of the captain rather than A-Rod. I should state that Jeter is my favorite athlete now that Steve Yzerman retired, and I think he is the number one player the Yankees should not trade. A-Rod is number two, maybe three behind Rivera.

And why is everyone licking Torres' nuts after he left Giambi, the Yankees most productive hitter this season, out of the lineup in the series clinching game? He also put Brian Bruney, the yankees' best relief pitcher of late, in to face one batter in a non-matchup situation.

Max, there's no way you can compare A-rod and Jeter to Reyes and Wright at this point in their careers, obviously A-rod and Jeter are more proven and seasoned than the two 23 year olds in queens.  But they also have 10 years on them.  They both have a long way to go to be like their yankee counterparts, but they're on the right track..

At Wright's age, Rodriguez had 148 home runs. Wright has 67. He had three gold gloves (a stupid award, but still). Wright has none. At age 20, A-Rod finished 2nd in MVP voting. At age 22, Wright finished 19th. At Wright's age A-Rod had led the league at some point in batting average, runs scored, hits, total bases, and doubles. Wright has never led the league in anything. I think it's very easy to compare Wright to A-Rod and say that unless Wright shatters some single-season records, he will not become close to the player A-Rod is.

True, Reyes could become a better player than Jeter. People seem to fawn over his speed, but until he gets caught stealing less than 19 times, I'm not too impressed. I think Reyes is the third or fourth best player on his team.

Max,
  Let's not get too crazy about A-Rod's MVP.  He did win it, but almost every Yankee fan would have traded A-Rod straight up for Papi who really should have been the MVP (and I'm a season ticket holding Yankee fan).  No one can argue A-Rod's offensive numbers, it's impossible.  If you watch him play every day for three years you really get the sense of who a player is though and there is a reason we call him "The Compiler" out in the bleachers.  And since the only season that matters in the Bronx is the second season, holding the record for futility with RISP and 2 out in the playoffs is enough to send anyone packing.
  The real knock on A-Rod though is the way that none of his past or present teammates defend him.  Wouldn't you think there would be a player on Seattle, Texas or the Yanks that would have a story about his leadership or clubhouse demeanor or interaction with his teammates that was positive?  The fact that Jeter allowed that to happen is the best argument why he doesn't deserve to win this year's MVP, not that he won't.  However, A-Rod threw DJ under the bus long before becoming a Yankee and A-Rod has yet to defer to Jeter who is the captain. 
  Now, as I said, I was a big proponent of the deal to bring A-Rod over.  And I defended him ad nauseum until his retched 0-4 in the game 2 loss to Detroit.  Can the Yanks replace his offensive numbers?  No, but they don't need to and Nick Green could have given the same performance in the playoffs, so I don't consider it that big of a loss.  And if we could get a solid starter in a trade, I'd be begging A-Rod to waive his no-trade.
  As for Giambi, he took a cortisone shot just before game 4 and was unable to play.  You gotta give Torre a pass on that one.  Where he needs to be taken to task is on Sheffield.  Torre was too afraid that Sheff would be a bigger headache than A-Rod if he didn't play and so he started at first.  That wouldn't have been a problem is Sheff hit like he is capable of, but going 1-12 and playing bad defense is unacceptable.  We would have been much better off with Phillips in at first who even if he went 0-12 would have made all the plays at first and given the Yanks a better chance to win.
  A-Rod will most likely still be a Yankee next season and I'll root for him to succeed, but eighth is where he should be hitting as soon as the playoffs roll around.  It's like the Parable of the Talents; unless A-Rod can prove to be responsible for a little, even the little he has will be taken away.

[bomber27]

Um football is here boys, I hate A-Rod but am glad he isn't a redsox because he would have sent us sdeeper into the abyss but really, football talk time

[JQV]

Last season A-Rod was the most valuable player of the g*ddamn american league. The Yankees may not "need" him, but they sure as hell won't be better off without him. This year he had an off year to the tune of 35 HR and 100 RBI. He had a terrible year in defense, which averages out with his incredible year in his first year at 3B. Jeter, on the other hand, had uncharacteristically good defensive performance the past two years, and undoubtedly had his career year at the plate. A-Rod is obviously more talented than Jeter, and Jeter had an up year while A-Rod had a down. Players have a tendency to regress to the mean. So explain to me how Derek Jeter is more vaulable to the Yankees next year than A-Rod? Is it his leadership, which, as you pointed out didn't show itself when the issue of A-Rod came up. I think Jeter not defending A-Rod is immaturity on the part of the captain rather than A-Rod. I should state that Jeter is my favorite athlete now that Steve Yzerman retired, and I think he is the number one player the Yankees should not trade. A-Rod is number two, maybe three behind Rivera.

And why is everyone licking Torres' nuts after he left Giambi, the Yankees most productive hitter this season, out of the lineup in the series clinching game? He also put Brian Bruney, the yankees' best relief pitcher of late, in to face one batter in a non-matchup situation.

Max, there's no way you can compare A-rod and Jeter to Reyes and Wright at this point in their careers, obviously A-rod and Jeter are more proven and seasoned than the two 23 year olds in queens.  But they also have 10 years on them.  They both have a long way to go to be like their yankee counterparts, but they're on the right track..

At Wright's age, Rodriguez had 148 home runs. Wright has 67. He had three gold gloves (a stupid award, but still). Wright has none. At age 20, A-Rod finished 2nd in MVP voting. At age 22, Wright finished 19th. At Wright's age A-Rod had led the league at some point in batting average, runs scored, hits, total bases, and doubles. Wright has never led the league in anything. I think it's very easy to compare Wright to A-Rod and say that unless Wright shatters some single-season records, he will not become close to the player A-Rod is.

True, Reyes could become a better player than Jeter. People seem to fawn over his speed, but until he gets caught stealing less than 19 times, I'm not too impressed. I think Reyes is the third or fourth best player on his team.

Max,
  Let's not get too crazy about A-Rod's MVP.  He did win it, but almost every Yankee fan would have traded A-Rod straight up for Papi who really should have been the MVP (and I'm a season ticket holding Yankee fan).  No one can argue A-Rod's offensive numbers, it's impossible.  If you watch him play every day for three years you really get the sense of who a player is though and there is a reason we call him "The Compiler" out in the bleachers.  And since the only season that matters in the Bronx is the second season, holding the record for futility with RISP and 2 out in the playoffs is enough to send anyone packing.
  The real knock on A-Rod though is the way that none of his past or present teammates defend him.  Wouldn't you think there would be a player on Seattle, Texas or the Yanks that would have a story about his leadership or clubhouse demeanor or interaction with his teammates that was positive?  The fact that Jeter allowed that to happen is the best argument why he doesn't deserve to win this year's MVP, not that he won't.  However, A-Rod threw DJ under the bus long before becoming a Yankee and A-Rod has yet to defer to Jeter who is the captain. 
  Now, as I said, I was a big proponent of the deal to bring A-Rod over.  And I defended him ad nauseum until his retched 0-4 in the game 2 loss to Detroit.  Can the Yanks replace his offensive numbers?  No, but they don't need to and Nick Green could have given the same performance in the playoffs, so I don't consider it that big of a loss.  And if we could get a solid starter in a trade, I'd be begging A-Rod to waive his no-trade.
  As for Giambi, he took a cortisone shot just before game 4 and was unable to play.  You gotta give Torre a pass on that one.  Where he needs to be taken to task is on Sheffield.  Torre was too afraid that Sheff would be a bigger headache than A-Rod if he didn't play and so he started at first.  That wouldn't have been a problem is Sheff hit like he is capable of, but going 1-12 and playing bad defense is unacceptable.  We would have been much better off with Phillips in at first who even if he went 0-12 would have made all the plays at first and given the Yanks a better chance to win.
  A-Rod will most likely still be a Yankee next season and I'll root for him to succeed, but eighth is where he should be hitting as soon as the playoffs roll around.  It's like the Parable of the Talents; unless A-Rod can prove to be responsible for a little, even the little he has will be taken away.

No DH is going to win the MVP...and rightfully so.  I still don't think a DH should go to the Hall.  Raffy helped us avoid that discussion by taking his vitamin S.

The Cubs are not going to trade their only healthy SP.  Not even for A-Rod.  Carlos Zambrano will remain a Cub.  Kerry Wood on the other hand...

Nick Green cannot do what A-Rod did in the playoffs.  Don't get carried away.

As for Sheff actually debating between Sheff and Andy Phillips, can you be serious, it sure is easy to manage retrospectively.

[maxpower]

last one from me, B-27...

I personally would not have traded A-Rod straight up for someone who hits about equally, but is slower and doesn't play defense. I'm sorry, I really don't buy into all the "heart", "clutch", and "responsibility" crap. In my book, you're as a good a ballplayer as you show on the field. And apart from the last couple playoff series', A-Rod has shown to be one of the best of our generation. As far as postseason performance, I think A-Rod can be expected to turn it around. Here is a team of other players that have had a similar three-series stretch:

C Yogi Berra, 47WS-50WS ... 14 G, .140/.204/.260, 6 R, 2 HR, 5 RBI
1B Jeff Bagwell, 97NLDS-99NLDS ... 11 G, .128/.261/.128, 3 R, 0 HR, 4 RBI
2B Jackie Robinson, 47WS-52WS ... 19 G, .212/.342/.303, 9 R, 1 HR, 7 RBI
SS Derek Jeter, 01ALDS-01WS ... 17 G, .226/.262/.290, 5 R, 1 HR, 4 RBI
3B Mike Schmidt, 77NLCS-80NLCS ... 13 G, .164/.233/.218, 4 R, 0 HR, 3 RBI
OF Babe Ruth, 18WS-22WS ... 14 G, .211/.333/.368, 4 R, 1 HR, 7 RBI
OF Mickey Mantle, 61WS-63WS ... 13 G, .130/.216/.217, 3 R, 1 HR, 1 RBI
OF Ted Williams, 46WS ... 7 G, .200/.333/.200, 2 R, 0 HR, 1 RBI
DH David Ortiz, 02ALDS-03ALDS ... 14 G, .200/.231/.280, 0 R, 0 HR, 6 RBI

(Yes, I got that from firejoemorgan.com. Sue me.)

All the stuff about him not being a "clutch" or "New York" guy... well that sells newspapers, but it's eyewash.

I hate when people say "the only thing that matters in the Bronx is the postseason." No one was saying that in the 80's. And when a lot, LOT of what matters in the postseason is luck, I think that's a pretty unfair standard to hold someone to.

Hitting Rodriguez 8th was a stupid as hitting Sheffield fourth. A-Rod's September was freakin' dynamite, and Torre hits him 6th in game one. And it's A-Rod's fault no one likes him? I don't think so. What do you mean by "he has yet to defer to Jeter as captain"? You mean, like, let Jeter take more pop ups on the left side because he is captain? I really don't understand that. I've heard Rodriguez say "Jeter is the captain" or something like that many times. I think the problem is that Jeter has yet to defer to A-Rod as the better ballplayer, and the most talented ballplayer in New York.

Look, baseball ain't a real team sport. As far as chemistry goes... well... just look at the '86 Mets, and never a bunch of more drunken, hating, coked up MFers will you find. I am saying that a Yankees team WITH Rodriguez will have an easier time winning the World Series than without him. Why trade him? IF Jim Hendry trades Big Z for A-Rod.... then I guess he's as stupid as he's proven to be by finishing dead last with the 7th highest payroll and hiring white Dusty Baker to replace Dusty Baker (sorry Tecmo). Better pitching can be gotten without trading A-Rod, all Cashman needs to do is to learn not to follow the hype. I think the Yankees without Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, and Carl Pavano eating up rotation spots and sucking would be a better team than the Yankees without A-Rod.

[JQV]

last one from me, B-27...

I personally would not have traded A-Rod straight up for someone who hits about equally, but is slower and doesn't play defense. I'm sorry, I really don't buy into all the "heart", "clutch", and "responsibility" crap. In my book, you're as a good a ballplayer as you show on the field. And apart from the last couple playoff series', A-Rod has shown to be one of the best of our generation. As far as postseason performance, I think A-Rod can be expected to turn it around. Here is a team of other players that have had a similar three-series stretch:

C Yogi Berra, 47WS-50WS ... 14 G, .140/.204/.260, 6 R, 2 HR, 5 RBI
1B Jeff Bagwell, 97NLDS-99NLDS ... 11 G, .128/.261/.128, 3 R, 0 HR, 4 RBI
2B Jackie Robinson, 47WS-52WS ... 19 G, .212/.342/.303, 9 R, 1 HR, 7 RBI
SS Derek Jeter, 01ALDS-01WS ... 17 G, .226/.262/.290, 5 R, 1 HR, 4 RBI
3B Mike Schmidt, 77NLCS-80NLCS ... 13 G, .164/.233/.218, 4 R, 0 HR, 3 RBI
OF Babe Ruth, 18WS-22WS ... 14 G, .211/.333/.368, 4 R, 1 HR, 7 RBI
OF Mickey Mantle, 61WS-63WS ... 13 G, .130/.216/.217, 3 R, 1 HR, 1 RBI
OF Ted Williams, 46WS ... 7 G, .200/.333/.200, 2 R, 0 HR, 1 RBI
DH David Ortiz, 02ALDS-03ALDS ... 14 G, .200/.231/.280, 0 R, 0 HR, 6 RBI

(Yes, I got that from firejoemorgan.com. Sue me.)

All the stuff about him not being a "clutch" or "New York" guy... well that sells newspapers, but it's eyewash.

I hate when people say "the only thing that matters in the Bronx is the postseason." No one was saying that in the 80's. And when a lot, LOT of what matters in the postseason is luck, I think that's a pretty unfair standard to hold someone to.

Hitting Rodriguez 8th was a stupid as hitting Sheffield fourth. A-Rod's September was freakin' dynamite, and Torre hits him 6th in game one. And it's A-Rod's fault no one likes him? I don't think so. What do you mean by "he has yet to defer to Jeter as captain"? You mean, like, let Jeter take more pop ups on the left side because he is captain? I really don't understand that. I've heard Rodriguez say "Jeter is the captain" or something like that many times. I think the problem is that Jeter has yet to defer to A-Rod as the better ballplayer, and the most talented ballplayer in New York.

Look, baseball ain't a real team sport. As far as chemistry goes... well... just look at the '86 Mets, and never a bunch of more drunken, hating, coked up MFers will you find. I am saying that a Yankees team WITH Rodriguez will have an easier time winning the World Series than without him. Why trade him? IF Jim Hendry trades Big Z for A-Rod.... then I guess he's as stupid as he's proven to be by finishing dead last with the 7th highest payroll and hiring white Dusty Baker to replace Dusty Baker (sorry Tecmo). Better pitching can be gotten without trading A-Rod, all Cashman needs to do is to learn not to follow the hype. I think the Yankees without Randy Johnson, Jaret Wright, and Carl Pavano eating up rotation spots and sucking would be a better team than the Yankees without A-Rod.

The kid makes a good point about A-Rod "deferring" to Jeter. What is more deferential than, I don't know, changing positions.

But, alas, Max wandered from the heard too.  Jeter the most talented player in NY?  He may be the most successful player but, if you grade out his tools, he is average at best.  Above average range, unremarkable arm, iffy power stroke at best.  When it comes to tools, the best SS in NYC plays 3B in the Bronx. In fact, I would say Reyes' tools grade out better than Jeter's as well.

[maxpower]

Um football is here boys, I hate A-Rod but am glad he isn't a redsox because he would have sent us sdeeper into the abyss but really, football talk time

Come on, I didn't complain when you guys were debating the best eateries in scenic Utica, New York.

I'll use this time to say that I don't want to see Welch pull the starters early if IF the UC game gets out of hand. juvan has looked better with every snap, so he should get as many as possible before Springfield. And as Mr. N said, if the defense is "settling" into the 3-4, then they should be pretty damn settled before facing that offense. Don't run it up with aggressive play-calling, but get some good football out of your starters. I don't think injury is too big a concern, they're rested from the bye week. Let 'em play.

Jose, i was saying that A-Rod is most talented, not Jeter. Come on, you're used to my convoluted sentence structure by now.

[realistic]

Max - I agree...but I think coming off a bye, I think they'll stay in for a while longer than they normally would.  I am fine with 3 Quarters though.

Jose - nice shout out for your former boss in Around the Nation today.

[JQV]

I'll use this time to say that I don't want to see Welch pull the starters early if IF the UC game gets out of hand. juvan has looked better with every snap, so he should get as many as possible

Man, at least the backup's girlfriend will be coming after you this time...

[lumpy]

Wow a Fisher-Mount Union rumor?  If it is true, I will give a lot of credit to Coach Vosburgh for taking that walk.  Sure they will probably get their head kicked in but, that is how you make the national scene.  I'd like to see IC add to the budget for more inter-regional trips like that.  The Huntingdon matchup was fun this year.  Even the matchups with the PAC teams were great.  ( I wish they would have kept Wilkes or Lyco ).  Keep us posted boys.

Realistic- I'm open to the fact that it's a tough offense to stop. In fact, I believe Fisher will probably have their hands full... I just cannot make myself fathom how at the college level a pure option offense will be able to produce enough against a good defense to win without the threat of throwing to spread the defense out.

See University of Nebraska circa 1994, 1995, and 1997 (man, Gator Nation is going to have my neck for bringing up 1995).  They were so good they got their head coach into Congress! 

I am glad you are keeping an open mind about it.  This has been the best football-related discussion in here in weeks.  +k for that.


By the way, is Tampa Western New York?

Jose, I didnt know you were in Tampa,  I was in Tampa last week, i should have looked you up we could have had a cold one !!!