FB: Empire 8

[theoriginalupstate]

yellow, i can't private message but I want in... let me know what's good...

you're a weenie - weenie's don't aren't allowed  8)

Drunk much?

[fisheralum91]

ok--boys im all for the pick em but a fantasy E8?
sheesh
lemme know when the pick em starts.
rob--the old man seems primed for a cold UC--i better get out there in a hurry this year!!

ER---ill bring extra!

[Tags]

yellow, i can't private message but I want in... let me know what's good...

you're a weenie - weenie's don't aren't allowed  8)

Drunk much?

I was indeed - am currently on the verge of a level 4. Thanks for caring

[Sir Spiedie]

When will practice start in the LLand E8? Sometime next week?

[labart96]

When will practice start in the LLand E8? Sometime next week?

TGP vaguely remembers practice starting only a couple of weeks out from the start of school.  My guess is most camps open the week of Aug 13 or 20, depending on when classes begin.

[PBR...]

believe players report late second weekend of aug....heck the phila. eagles arent reporting until monday. college always starts several weeks after the pro's report (since several pro teams use college facilities college teams cant report until the pro's break camp)

[gobombers15]

Besides, Juvan did not have horrible '06 campaign in his first season at the helm. 

GB15,

This past season... Were you at SJF in the 2nd half?  Or Cortland in the 2nd half?  Or the entire Alfred game?

MIOH agrees... he doesn't think Juvan had a horrible year by any means... but... you have to be able to beat a good team on the road... Danny hasn't done that yet.  MIOH is not sold on BG yet either... but if he's the real deal then why wait until we lose to Fisher to pull the trigger? 

I was not there for any of those games so I trust that he didn't look good, at times. Sure, winning big games on the road is great and Juvan didn't do that in his first year as a starter. However, I went back and checked on how Felicetti did in "road games against good teams" and the results looked like this:

'02
@Hobart   L
@Cortland    L

'03
@Springfield   L
*@Brockport   W
*@Montclair St   W
*@RPI   L

'04
@Fisher   L
@Brockport   L
@Cortland   W

'05
@Lycoming   L
@Springfield   W
@Union   L

That's a 4-8 record. Not all that impressive. I would argue that for as good as he was, Felicetti did not consistently win road games against good teams, either. He was particularly poor in his first year as a starter. He was atrocious in the '02 Hobart game and he didn't make enough plays in the '02 Cortaca game. I will grant you that the play-calling against Hobart that year was the worst I've ever seen (at any level) and if Ithaca had any semblance of a kicking game, the Bombers probably win the '02 jug. My point is only that we shouldn't be getting on a kid who just finished his first year as a starter for "not beating good teams on the road" when his predecessor, who owns pretty much every IC passing record, wasn't very consistent on the road, either.

I think a lot of people will change their tune once Juvan wins a big game. All of IC's toughest games, save Springfield, are at home this year. I expect Juvan to put forth far more effective performances in those games.

[labart96]

He was atrocious in the '02 Hobart game and he didn't make enough plays in the '02 Cortaca game. I will grant you that the play-calling against Hobart that year was the worst I've ever seen (at any level).

GB15 -

TGP sees where you are going with your analysis and agrees with your overall point re: Juvan. 

However, being a loyal Hobart fan, TGP has to chime in that Felicetti's "atrocious game" vs. Hobart in 2002 may have had more to do with the fact that the Hobart was simply a much better team that day (on offense, defense and special teams) than IC's play calling being awful.

In the game you are referring to, Hobart shut down IC's running game (holding them to net 66 yds on 21 carries) and dominated time of possession, 37+ minutes vs. IC's 22+ mins (not to mention the decisive drive that ran 8 minutes, 15 seconds off the game clock in the 4th qtr).  Hobart also won the turnover battle, 2-0.

Hobart's special teams buried the Bombers with poor field position (Ithaca had an average starting field position of their own 25), meanwhile Hobart's average field position was our own 41.

That day the Bombers advanced to the Hobart 20 just once after their initial touchdown, missing a 37-yard field goal attempt midway through the second quarter, and never got closer than the Hobart 32-yard line after that.

It's hard to win the game at any level if your offense is always starting fairly deep in their own territory and have only ~22 minutes and can't advance into the red zone. 

Is it possible that, rather than atrocious play calling, that Felicetti and IC just ran into a better Hobart team that played a smart, ball control and strong defensive game?

[maninorangehat]

However, I went back and checked on how Felicetti did in "road games against good teams" and the results looked like this:

'02
@Hobart   L
@Cortland    L

'03
@Springfield   L
*@Brockport   W
*@Montclair St   W
*@RPI   L

'04
@Fisher   L
@Brockport   L
@Cortland   W

'05
@Lycoming   L
@Springfield   W
@Union   L

That's a 4-8 record. Not all that impressive.

Good stuff... I think Tecmo, MIYO, and Dubbs would all tell you that Felicetti never truly won me over until the '04 Cortland Massacre. 

MIOH would qualify both Felicetti '04 losses a little bit

*The Fisher loss has been argued on this board and in parking lots for a long time (perhaps a homer call in OT losses IC the chance to tie and possibly win)

*The Brockport loss I put on the Coaching staff... IC lost by 1 after missing an XP earlier in the game.  IC decided to kick a 41 yard field goal with about 40 ticks left in the game on 4th and short yardage.  It should be noted that the Wind was blowing about 69 mph directly ino Kitty's face on that day. 

Josh gave the bombers a chance to win in both of those games

'06

34-10 loss to SJF... and basically stayed in the locker room the whole 2nd half
28-17 loss to AUPep's Boys... up 17-7 and then gave it away in the 2nd half
23-20 loss to Cortland... no need to go into details with this one

I guess thats part of the beauty of being a (bombers) monday morning qb  you can set ubsurd standards and expect people to live up to them

I think a lot of people will change their tune once Juvan wins a big game. All of IC's toughest games, save Springfield, are at home this year. I expect Juvan to put forth far more effective performances in those games.

I hope your right... I'll be pulling for him

[not so rowdy bomber]

Besides, Juvan did not have horrible '06 campaign in his first season at the helm. 

GB15,

This past season... Were you at SJF in the 2nd half?  Or Cortland in the 2nd half?  Or the entire Alfred game?

MIOH agrees... he doesn't think Juvan had a horrible year by any means... but... you have to be able to beat a good team on the road... Danny hasn't done that yet.  MIOH is not sold on BG yet either... but if he's the real deal then why wait until we lose to Fisher to pull the trigger? 

I was not there for any of those games so I trust that he didn't look good, at times. Sure, winning big games on the road is great and Juvan didn't do that in his first year as a starter. However, I went back and checked on how Felicetti did in "road games against good teams" and the results looked like this:

'02
@Hobart   L
@Cortland    L

'03
@Springfield   L
*@Brockport   W
*@Montclair St   W
*@RPI   L

'04
@Fisher   L
@Brockport   L
@Cortland   W

'05
@Lycoming   L
@Springfield   W
@Union   L

That's a 4-8 record. Not all that impressive. I would argue that for as good as he was, Felicetti did not consistently win road games against good teams, either. He was particularly poor in his first year as a starter. He was atrocious in the '02 Hobart game and he didn't make enough plays in the '02 Cortaca game. I will grant you that the play-calling against Hobart that year was the worst I've ever seen (at any level) and if Ithaca had any semblance of a kicking game, the Bombers probably win the '02 jug. My point is only that we shouldn't be getting on a kid who just finished his first year as a starter for "not beating good teams on the road" when his predecessor, who owns pretty much every IC passing record, wasn't very consistent on the road, either.

I think a lot of people will change their tune once Juvan wins a big game. All of IC's toughest games, save Springfield, are at home this year. I expect Juvan to put forth far more effective performances in those games.

Though Felicetti may have lost some tough road games... for the most part he kept them quite close... both Cortland games, OT loss at Brockport, not sure about the rest on the list... but from my memory, I dont remember the Bombers getting bombed out all too often.  ... its not Fels fault for missing countless FGs and EPs .... As for Juvan and the rest, sure its going to be an interesting season with all the competition in the E8 now, but they all can rely on the 12th man sitting up in the L section of butterfield and crammed into the visiting section of each away game to make some plays happen too.  

on a side note: aside from the QB spot tba... any thoughts on the center position recently vacated by Justin Brunell and how bout for Quentin Kiah?  we got some holes to fill this year-

[maninorangehat]

He was atrocious in the '02 Hobart game and he didn't make enough plays in the '02 Cortaca game. I will grant you that the play-calling against Hobart that year was the worst I've ever seen (at any level).

GB15 -

TGP sees where you are going with your analysis and agrees with your overall point re: Juvan. 

However, being a loyal Hobart fan, TGP has to chime in that Felicetti's "atrocious game" vs. Hobart in 2002 may have had more to do with the fact that the Hobart was simply a much better team that day (on offense, defense and special teams) than IC's play calling being awful.

In the game you are referring to, Hobart shut down IC's running game (holding them to net 66 yds on 21 carries) and dominated time of possession, 37+ minutes vs. IC's 22+ mins (not to mention the decisive drive that ran 8 minutes, 15 seconds off the game clock in the 4th qtr).  Hobart also won the turnover battle, 2-0.

Hobart's special teams buried the Bombers with poor field position (Ithaca had an average starting field position of their own 25), meanwhile Hobart's average field position was our own 41.

That day the Bombers advanced to the Hobart 20 just once after their initial touchdown, missing a 37-yard field goal attempt midway through the second quarter, and never got closer than the Hobart 32-yard line after that.

It's hard to win the game at any level if your offense is always starting fairly deep in their own territory and have only ~22 minutes and can't advance into the red zone. 

Based on the facts it doesn't sound like Felicetti and IC played poorly so much as Hobart played a smart, ball control and strong defensive game.

MIOH will agree with TGP on this one... Hobart Monkey Stomped IC that day.  

[labart96]

Technically not a monkey stomp (margin of victory over 21), but definitely one of the best (if not THE best) games that 02 Hobart squad had all season.

The fact that TGP thinks it was only the 3rd win for Hobart in 25+ something games vs. IC made it that much sweeter. 

[maninorangehat]

Technically not a monkey stomp (margin of victory over 21), but definitely one of the best (if not THE best) games that 02 Hobart squad had all season.

The fact that TGP thinks it was only the 3rd win for Hobart in 25+ something games vs. IC made it that much sweeter. 

MIOH would propose a couple of amendments to the monkey stomp "rule of 21" in cases like...

When your offense doesn't advance the ball past midfield and you lose by more than 17

When you have more turnovers than first downs and lose by more than 17

[theicdubbz]

the bomber QB debate is a debate over whether Juvan will be pulled after a big loss.  What we dont know is Grasdorfs true capabilities on the V level.  I remember sitting on the sidelines at the Cornell scrimmage 2 years ago with tecmo and practicially jumping for joy after we saw Juvan.   Simply watching him warm up was amazing to see.  The kid threw just as well from 5 yards as he did from 30.   He marched the team down the field in 3 plays to score.  One was a 35 yard missle to the middle of the WRs numbers.   I just hope that Welch will keep some consistency for the kid in terms of playbook.

  I am happy we get to have this convo at all.   At least we know that Bomber QB spot is solid in depth.

[theicdubbz]

Also we have our three headed monster returning.... Baez, Donovan, & BAM-BAM!!!!!  therefore, Juvans longest pass of the year could end up being a 5 yard swing pass to big D.