FB: Empire 8

[superman57]

Stadiums as quirky as Fenway, much as I love it, are easier to coordinate personnel decisions around in favor of the home team. Note that I never said it was a HUGE advantage. I'm not talking about game-to-game; almost nothing in baseball is worth talking about game to game, until the playoffs of course.

This could be true, but the sox did not actually tailor their team for the park with the exception of maybe Manny Ramirez.  But then again, if the short wall was in right, they would have probably done the exact same deal for him. 

After watching hundreds of sox games (thousands?), the only advantage I can see the sox have in terms of the park is when an opposing rookie outfielder tries to be a hero near the wall and misjudges it.  Other than that I would say all teams know about the wall and can deal with it as well as the sox can.

Max,
Making this argument is not great because all teams build to their strong suits/stadium...look at the yankees roster they are very strong in the LH batter category...

[BoSox0322]

and lets see Boston has the second highest payroll and in 05 they got elimnated in the first round and wait didn't they not even make the playoffs in 06 and I thought at one point this year they had a 14 and half game lead and how many games did they end up winning the division by

I'm going to give you a chance to take this back so that you dont sound so pathetic ... winning the division should be your key point ...

[BoSox0322]

and lets see Boston has the second highest payroll and in 05 they got elimnated in the first round and wait didn't they not even make the playoffs in 06 and I thought at one point this year they had a 14 and half game lead and how many games did they end up winning the division by

hey 1 or 100 does it make a difference, nope.  Cuz the sox are playin tomorrow night and Stein and Cashman are tryin to figure out who the hell else they gotta buy to make it back to their glory days

Typical boston azz clown response...how's JD Drew and Matt Clement working out for you... and what did you give up to get Willy Mo, and what did you get in return... and as much as I was against signing Damon, he has been huge with leadership and getting this team into the right attitude....and while you are buying pitching...I would love to see you try and hit Joba, Ian Kennedy and Phil Hughes...man they are nasty and wait...they have Robby Cano at second and Melky in center and Jeter is at short all are homegorwn

of course you need to find a red sox player for that

[BoSox0322]

Yankee fans make me think irrationally.  

Just route for the Indians and stop trying to make yourselves feel better by making excuses.  Honestly, I'm glad the Yankees lost.  I didn't want to play them again.  For the 1st World Series, it wouldn't have felt right not going through NY, now, I'd rather they lose so we don't need to play them.

100% agree

[superman57]

and lets see Boston has the second highest payroll and in 05 they got elimnated in the first round and wait didn't they not even make the playoffs in 06 and I thought at one point this year they had a 14 and half game lead and how many games did they end up winning the division by

I'm going to give you a chance to take this back so that you dont sound so pathetic ... winning the division should be your key point ...

bosox your taking my quote out of context...My comment was to some one saying that all the yankees do is buy players and that they have had first round exits...The job Joe Torre did this year should win him Manager of the year...he got that team going at the right moments...and got them into the playoffs when they shouldn't have even been in contention

[BoSox0322]

and lets see Boston has the second highest payroll and in 05 they got elimnated in the first round and wait didn't they not even make the playoffs in 06 and I thought at one point this year they had a 14 and half game lead and how many games did they end up winning the division by

I'm going to give you a chance to take this back so that you dont sound so pathetic ... winning the division should be your key point ...

bosox your taking my quote out of context...My comment was to some one saying that all the yankees do is buy players and that they have had first round exits...The job Joe Torre did this year should win him Manager of the year...he got that team going at the right moments...and got them into the playoffs when they shouldn't have even been in contention

maybe I am ... but i kinda thought thats what we did on here?

is Torre in or out?

[maninyellowhat]

Pretty much every outfield position in Fenway is the same way thanks to the nook in center and the way the ball rolls around right.  But I'll agree with you on the American League teams, the National League often has trouble defending at Fenway, for example the Mets last year.

Milledge looked lost last year.  It was pretty entertaining to watch, even though I was in Vegas and losing a few bucks each game.  Luckily, the free Bellagio cocktails were flowing.

[superman57]

and lets see Boston has the second highest payroll and in 05 they got elimnated in the first round and wait didn't they not even make the playoffs in 06 and I thought at one point this year they had a 14 and half game lead and how many games did they end up winning the division by

I'm going to give you a chance to take this back so that you dont sound so pathetic ... winning the division should be your key point ...

bosox your taking my quote out of context...My comment was to some one saying that all the yankees do is buy players and that they have had first round exits...The job Joe Torre did this year should win him Manager of the year...he got that team going at the right moments...and got them into the playoffs when they shouldn't have even been in contention

maybe I am ... but i kinda thought thats what we did on here?

is Torre in or out?

Honestly...I hope he is out...but on his own will not because george is an idiot...I think they need some change in the guard...but it needs to be Joe Girardi...who I think is the best bet you have to keep the same type of atmosphere around the team

[FisherAlum05]

+K Yanks for stayin on after a Loss. 

I'll match Dubbz' +k and agree that Super is overreacting.

I'll also throw this out there.  Is Super's hypersensitivity to Hartwick's success more evidence that the Fish faithful are still getting used to dealing with success?

I'll also throw this out there.  Is Jose's constant questioning of Fisher's ability to deal with success his own incredulous attempt to make subtle jabs at a program that he secretly fears has surpassed Ithaca and doesn't know if Ithaca will return to the glory it has so long relished in?  

haha.  i think you just might be right.

[maxpower]

Stadiums as quirky as Fenway, much as I love it, are easier to coordinate personnel decisions around in favor of the home team. Note that I never said it was a HUGE advantage. I'm not talking about game-to-game; almost nothing in baseball is worth talking about game to game, until the playoffs of course.

This could be true, but the sox did not actually tailor their team for the park with the exception of maybe Manny Ramirez.  But then again, if the short wall was in right, they would have probably done the exact same deal for him. 

After watching hundreds of sox games (thousands?), the only advantage I can see the sox have in terms of the park is when an opposing rookie outfielder tries to be a hero near the wall and misjudges it.  Other than that I would say all teams know about the wall and can deal with it as well as the sox can.

Max,
Making this argument is not great because all teams build to their strong suits/stadium...look at the yankees roster they are very strong in the LH batter category...

I totally agree, but I'm just saying that when a stadium is as individual as Fenway is, maybe the weirdest dimensions in MLB, it makes it that much easier to find a specific team that works with it.

[fan of d3]

In fact, one could say it's as much an advantage of playing all home games in a stadium where one line is 310 and the other is much less than its posted 290.

It's amazing, really, that the Red Sox get to play in that stadium but the dimensions change when the opponents bat.

Pat, are you denying that teams tailor their teams to their stadiums and vice versa? Why do you think the "House that Ruth Built" has a short porch in right? PETCO Park changed its dimensions MID CONSTRUCTION when the Pads acquired Brian Giles, and now there's a little jut-out in right.

No doubt. And all those players the Red Sox still have from when they constructed their stadium?

Seriously, dude -- if a 310 left field line is an advantage for Red Sox hitters, it's an advantage for opposing hitters, too. It's not rocket surgery.

Stadiums as quirky as Fenway, much as I love it, are easier to coordinate personnel decisions around in favor of the home team. Note that I never said it was a HUGE advantage. I'm not talking about game-to-game; almost nothing in baseball is worth talking about game to game, until the playoffs of course.

Haha, Probably about as good as Carl Pavano and Roger Clemens worked out for you guys, we gave up bronson Arroyo a pitcher who as much as i loved was 9-15 with an ERA of almost 5.00 HEY GREAT POINTS.

As for me tryin to hit joba, ian kennedy, or phil hughes, well I guess I would have as much luck as you trying to hit papelbon, Bucholz, or Lester.  Looks like the indians had no trouble hittin those "Azz clowns from NY"

And I know you arent bashin Pedroia the Rookie of the year who was home grown, or Ellsbury, or Moss.  The only thing more annoying than a Ny yankees fan is a yankees fan who roots for fisher

Can we have no more posts that have a general "Oh YEAH?!?!" feel to them?

Wow the Indians beat the Yankees in a short series. Just like the Yankees beat the Red Sox in two short series' down the stretch. It just doesn't really matter.

1st) it does matter to me

2nd) if ur gonna make a ridiculous statement making fun of th emoves for jd drew and matt clement im gonna come back with the carl pavano who started i think 6 games for the yankees and roger clemens the most overpaid 6-6 and six starter over.

OH YEAH?!?!?!?!

[not so rowdy bomber]

EHHHHHH FOOTBALL!


nsrb was a bit confused this morning... what he thought was the FOOTBALL boards have transformed in to the MLB boards.


go bombers.

[JQV]

Sorry I missed the heated baseball discussion.

My two cents:

a) Complaining about money in baseball really is a red herring.  The rules do not prohibit spending so the teams that want to win can spend.  In reality, all MLB teams have access to funds to spend on players and spending does not always equal wins (See Baltimore and Los Angeles, two of the highest payrolls in baseball over the last 10 years).

b) The real money advantage the Yanks-Sox have over everyone isn't in getting name players.  Most teams can sign big free agents (with the exception of the stratospheric FAs like A-Rod, Dice-K, etc.).  The Sox and Yanks advantage is in giving role players multi-year guaranteed deals.  Most teams can give a guy a multi-year guarantee but, if they do so, they need that guy to be on their 25-man for those years.  The Sox and Yanks give those mid-level guys multi-year deals but can afford to cut them and continue to pay.  (I am thinking of contributors to WS teams like Brosius, Luis Sojo, Dave Roberts, Gabe Kapler, Mark Bellhorn, etc.).  The Rays, for instance, could sign these guys to the deals they got.  But these guys would still be on the Rays' roster today instead of making one or two big plays and then being cut or dealt.

c) Not sure who said it a few pages back but who would you call the Best Hitter, Pitcher, and Closer in baseball on the Yankee roster?  I can think of a few closers I would take ahead of 2007 Rivera (Valverde, Papelbon), hitters I would take ahead of A-Rod, and tons of pitchers I would take ahead of any of the Yankee staff.

[Jonny Utah]

Sorry I missed the heated baseball discussion.

My two cents:

a) Complaining about money in baseball really is a red herring.  The rules do not prohibit spending so the teams that want to win can spend.  In reality, all MLB teams have access to funds to spend on players and spending does not always equal wins (See Baltimore and Los Angeles, two of the highest payrolls in baseball over the last 10 years).

b) The real money advantage the Yanks-Sox have over everyone isn't in getting name players.  Most teams can sign big free agents (with the exception of the stratospheric FAs like A-Rod, Dice-K, etc.).  The Sox and Yanks advantage is in giving role players multi-year guaranteed deals.  Most teams can give a guy a multi-year guarantee but, if they do so, they need that guy to be on their 25-man for those years.  The Sox and Yanks give those mid-level guys multi-year deals but can afford to cut them and continue to pay.  (I am thinking of contributors to WS teams like Brosius, Luis Sojo, Dave Roberts, Gabe Kapler, Mark Bellhorn, etc.).  The Rays, for instance, could sign these guys to the deals they got.  But these guys would still be on the Rays' roster today instead of making one or two big plays and then being cut or dealt.

c) Not sure who said it a few pages back but who would you call the Best Hitter, Pitcher, and Closer in baseball on the Yankee roster?  I can think of a few closers I would take ahead of 2007 Rivera (Valverde, Papelbon), hitters I would take ahead of A-Rod, and tons of pitchers I would take ahead of any of the Yankee staff.

I agree with most about what you say above but..

a) Although the highest paid teams dont always win short playoff series, you can see that the lowest paid teams are almost always at the bottom, (rays) and the higest paid teams are always at the top (yanks, sox). 

b) I agree that the sox have an advantage in signing medium players (Miller, Varitek, Crisp, Nixon) to meidum price long range deals, but the sox and yanks have their biggest advantage in signing the big players.  And any team can sign one big player, but the sox and yanks can sign and pay 4-5.  And the sox and yanks can afford to get rid of them if they dont work out.  Not many teams can sign (Shilling, Ramirez, Beckett, Lowell, -resign ortiz-) like the sox can.

c) Im gonna say a-rod is the best hitter in baseball but the yanks do not have the best pitcher or closer.....

[AUKaz00]

I hate that all the East teams are on the bye this week so we have no football items to talk about on these boards...